The Big Lebowski Mafia - Mafia and Lyncher win!

[DoomYoshi]

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

[spiesr]

I tend to focus in on one aspect of something. That's universal for me, not just in mafia. I haven't responded to anything else because I've been trying to break off these pointless arguments. I'll try to post something more substantial in the near future. It might happen tonight if I end up wasting more time, but these next couple of weeks are gonna be bad for my activity.

In your argument with Commander over the last few pages didn't he defend himself with an idea similar to this?

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

I would say that the nature of relations between you and strike are more complicated that that, but that even recently they could generally characterized as him being supportive and defensive of you. The quote that you mention is shown here:

I got a major scumvibe from your long post there ga7. The second one cleared the air a little. But let it be known that I am closely watching you now.

You know with at least some one liners in this game they actually express a real opinion and not vague mentions of scum vibes without backing it up or are you just scared of long posts?

I wouldn't really say that this post means that he is no longer defending you. In fact, you trying to assert that he isn't makes me wonder if you are trying to downplay his defenses of you for a reason? Perhaps you don't want us to find you out as being scumbuddies or something? So you can have an FOS for blatantly trying to make it look like he is no longer on your side...

[DoomYoshi]

?

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

I would say that the nature of relations between you and strike are more complicated that that, but that even recently they could generally characterized as him being supportive and defensive of you. The quote that you mention is shown here:

I got a major scumvibe from your long post there ga7. The second one cleared the air a little. But let it be known that I am closely watching you now.

You know with at least some one liners in this game they actually express a real opinion and not vague mentions of scum vibes without backing it up or are you just scared of long posts?

I wouldn't really say that this post means that he is no longer defending you. In fact, you trying to assert that he isn't makes me wonder if you are trying to downplay his defenses of you for a reason? Perhaps you don't want us to find you out as being scumbuddies or something? So you can have an FOS for blatantly trying to make it look like he is no longer on your side...

WIFOM

[FloresDelMal]

With my background in theatre, I tend to look at motivation of words.

what?? a theater background? so your noobness defense could be just an act? a well rehearsed number from a seasoned actor/actress/it? you yoshi, keep giving me reasons for suspect you, something smells rotten in the kingdom of denmark!

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship.

Also im starting to doubt the "noobness" defense of yoshi, because he seems to feel experienced enough for run 2 games at the same time, since when ppl who is just learning the ropes go around modding games? FOS yoshi

plus did you intentionally ignored my comment on page 15, or you accidentally skimmed it? (skimming will be your loss kid)

well you have done more than enough for grant that my FOS becomes a Vote yoshi

[strike wolf]

Against my better judgment I am actually going to agree with spiesr on this one. You were quick to assert that I was not defending you any more...at the very least it seems you are eager to shift those accusations away from you.

[Commander9]

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

Am I the only one who's feeling scum vibes here? It seems like strike is now trying to finding anything on yoshi, so he could distance himself.

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship

QFT. I totally agree - I wasn't too suspicious about these 2 before, but this sudden attack from strike on such a small thing does get me interested.

[DoomYoshi]

With my background in theatre, I tend to look at motivation of words.

what?? a theater background? so your noobness defense could be just an act? a well rehearsed number from a seasoned actor/actress/it? you yoshi, keep giving me reasons for suspect you, something smells rotten in the kingdom of denmark!
In acting class, we would often play mafia, nothing this complex though.

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship.
This is WIFOM again. Every both me and Strike are n00bs, and we fell into your trap, or I am a n00b and too stupid to realize that my defense isn't helping, or I am really a very experienced player in disguise trying some sort of reverse psychology. If I say we are associated, then you 'know' we are. If I say that we are not associated, you say that it is shocking. Keep in mind that Strike is more experienced than I and the connection the town is seeing is not at all based on my actions. He defended me, not the other way around. At this point, IF you are convinced that we are connected, nothing either of us will say can dissuade you..

Also im starting to doubt the "noobness" defense of yoshi, because he seems to feel experienced enough for run 2 games at the same time, since when ppl who is just learning the ropes go around modding games? FOS yoshi

plus did you intentionally ignored my comment on page 15, or you accidentally skimmed it? (skimming will be your loss kid)

well you have done more than enough for grant that my FOS becomes a Vote yoshi
I ignored your comment, yes. I am not actually modding any games. I have two that are recruiting now though, so please join:) In one case I had a really creative setup so I asked a more experienced mod for help in balancing it. The second is just a basic setup.

[Haggis_McMutton]

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship

QFT. I totally agree - I wasn't too suspicious about these 2 before, but this sudden attack from strike on such a small thing does get me interested.

This is why I believe it's important to put pressure according to classic scumtells, even when there's apparently an excuse. If his actions were actually due to noobiness, nothing further would have come of it. If they weren't though, it'd start unravelling, like it has.

His defense:

I will address your point 3 as it is the most important one. At first, I believed the claim. When it was deemed a lie by others, I realized that it DID sound like a lie.

Point One I have already answered. Point two: Even though Streaker was aware that fircoal was no longer in the game, he continued to defend his vote on fircoal. Even pcm knows that. Jumping on the wagon seemed sensible as at that point, Streaker was trying to slow down the day (a scummy tactic) and he was deliberate and remorseless about it.

Point 2: So why didn't you state this when you voted him? Why are you only saying it now?
Point 3: This isn't an explanation. You just thought "hell, the others are voting, I must be wrong" ? No attempt to get more info, or even to persuade the others of your view?
I mean changing your mind and re-voting him is one thing, but you went from thinking he was innocent, to being so sure of his guilt as to quicklynch without any new info in 50 minutes(and coincidentally, hammered 5 minutes after he got at L-1) ...

[Commander9]

Well, since I see that nothing will happen with PCM (even though I still consider him to be not pro-town), I'm cool with putting more pressure Yoshi (he was 3rd on my list).

Unvote. Vote Yoshi.

[DoomYoshi]

3:I didn't 100% think he was innocent. I unvoted to give myself time to think. 50 minutes time to be precise. Yes, I screwed up big on the hammer. It won't happen again. I thought he had lied about his role and I figured lying is a surefire scumtell. I have played in a game with a thief, and a flavor cop. This was Sully's NV #2. The thief was the mafia godfather and the flavor cop was the inventor. I didn't see how these two roles combined. For the third time: I apologize for the hammer of Streaker. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I am still learning how to play as Town (of the 3 games I played I was mafia twice), and I beg your forgiveness so that I may learn how better to investigate.
2. I don't always provide the rigorous reasoning with my votes. Unfrotunately, even if the reasoning is great, people jump on you if they don't like the way you've stated something. So I try to provide minimum information, as it has gotten me lynched twice before (as a Doc and as a Jailkeeper).

[Commander9]

3:I didn't 100% think he was innocent. I unvoted to give myself time to think. 50 minutes time to be precise. Yes, I screwed up big on the hammer. It won't happen again. I thought he had lied about his role and I figured lying is a surefire scumtell. I have played in a game with a thief, and a flavor cop. This was Sully's NV #2. The thief was the mafia godfather and the flavor cop was the inventor. I didn't see how these two roles combined. For the third time: I apologize for the hammer of Streaker. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I am still learning how to play as Town (of the 3 games I played I was mafia twice), and I beg your forgiveness so that I may learn how better to investigate.
2. I don't always provide the rigorous reasoning with my votes. Unfrotunately, even if the reasoning is great, people jump on you if they don't like the way you've stated something. So I try to provide minimum information, as it has gotten me lynched twice before (as a Doc and as a Jailkeeper).

Err... if you will provide minimum information you'll look worse. If I find reasoning great, I barely ever discard it, but if you don't provide any or provide bad reasoning, that's when I usually come out.

[Iliad]

It seems strike is distancing himself more and more from yoshi. I had noticed Yoshi's erratic behaviour but for a while it seemed like it could have been a sign of inexperience just as a sign of scumminess.

Strikes, however more importantly and more subtly mandy's attempts. See here

I am guessing the scum left me alive as they figured I would be an easy lynch today. The way I see it they killed edocsil to frame me. If I was playing as mafia, that's what I would do. An alternate is that the vig is the one who killed edoc. If so, that's very random of you. I don't think he would've been a great target. So we need to know if there is a vig out there.

I will formally apologize about my quick hammer yesterday. In the end, he turned out to be a town thief, which I regret, but I still don't understand why he didn't truthfully claim.

Read: "I couldn't have done it! It makes too much sense!" That's WIFOM and I don't like it.

If it was a vig, I'm also curious as to the choice, but I'm not sold that's the case here.

Except that he didn't. Thief is investigative. Or are we on something else?

Would a Scum work so hard to lynch someone on Day 1? Or would he just throw his vote in and let the townies do all the work? Principles of Aikido suggest the second strategy is better, so I conclude that Yoshi is a noob (no offense men, we all were) and Pancake is a seasoned scum. Vote Pancake

If that if yoshi does flip mafia, some attention must be turned towards mandy and strike, but more for the former. Strike has been active and may be unfrotunate in defending the wrong newb, but the only thing he has done in this game is defend yoshi.

I would vote yoshi, but I haven't seen a vote count ina while.

[strike wolf]

As far as defending yoshi...the only thing I ever supported him on was that he is fairly new to cc mafia (true) and that I didn't find the merit in lynching him over the quick hammer as I thought it was more ambiguous than a lot of people are making it out. Some of what has happened since involving yoshi I haven't liked and for the most part I have weighed in on these.

[pancakemix]

On Nark: The things TG pointed about nark seem a bit off, yes. To me though, it just seems like typical nark. I don't think there's much to say here based on that. I'm not completely sold he didn't try to set Yoshi up, though. It's speculation but it's all there is, really.

On Yoshi: Haggis' points are pretty good here, and Yoshi's responses aren't. I don't buy the "I didn't know any better. It sounded fake." claim, because nobody bought the claim, it seems. As I said, I'm not entirely convinced he wasn't set up, but I'd still keep an eye out because he took the chance.

As far as strike is concerned here, I'm not convinced he ever really defended Yoshi. All he said was that given the circumstances, it was understandable. That's a far cry from coming to his defense. At this point it seems more like Yoshi wants that security blanket, with strike denying it was ever there.

WIFOM

Spelling these sorts of things out is good, rather than just posting an acronym.

Right now, I'll hold my vote where it is as I don't feel it needs action yet. Those are my thoughts.

[DoomYoshi]

WIFOM

Spelling these sorts of things out is good, rather than just posting an acronym.

He is postulating how strike and I would react if we were actually scumbuddies. That is clear WIFOM, of the finest degree.

[nagerous]

vote count:

Pancake (1) Mandy
Strike (1) Nark
Nark (1) Tailgunner
GA7 (1) Pancake
Yoshi (3) Haggis, Flores, Commander

8 to lynch

[ga7]

Well, since I see that nothing will happen with PCM (even though I still consider him to be not pro-town), I'm cool with putting more pressure Yoshi (he was 3rd on my list).

Unvote. Vote Yoshi.

I have a feeling you didn't name your other suspicions earlier just so you could pop up with something like that "Oh yeah he was definitely there on my scummy list all along so my wagon vote is warranted!"

As far as defending yoshi...the only thing I ever supported him on was that he is fairly new to cc mafia (true) and that I didn't find the merit in lynching him over the quick hammer as I thought it was more ambiguous than a lot of people are making it out. Some of what has happened since involving yoshi I haven't liked and for the most part I have weighed in on these.

While this thing might have indeed been blown out of proportion it is more odd to me that both you and Yoshi did so much afterwards to distance yourselves.

Naggy, how much time do we have?

[Commander9]

I have a feeling you didn't name your other suspicions earlier just so you could pop up with something like that "Oh yeah he was definitely there on my scummy list all along so my wagon vote is warranted!"

Even if that would be the case ( ), you can't prove it In all seriousness, though, I just went through my list basing on priority - scummiest person is first and then move down the ladder. Since I could not do anything with PCM, it was time to move on.

[Iliad]

I have a feeling you didn't name your other suspicions earlier just so you could pop up with something like that "Oh yeah he was definitely there on my scummy list all along so my wagon vote is warranted!"

Even if that would be the case ( ), you can't prove it In all seriousness, though, I just went through my list basing on priority - scummiest person is first and then move down the ladder. Since I could not do anything with PCM, it was time to move on.

You don't have to be tied down to one avenue of discussion. If you do have insights and scumtells you have picked up, share.

[strike wolf]

I think people are kind of overlooking haggis...saying that doom proclaimed streaker innocent or anything of the sort was a massive overexaggeration. It was clear that streaker questioned the claim from the beginning. For haggis to read back see how long it took between the unvote and the hammer and not notice that? It seems to me like a clear misrepresentation of what was happening in the game.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I think people are kind of overlooking haggis...saying that doom proclaimed streaker innocent or anything of the sort was a massive overexaggeration. It was clear that streaker questioned the claim from the beginning. For haggis to read back see how long it took between the unvote and the hammer and not notice that? It seems to me like a clear misrepresentation of what was happening in the game.

sooo, why did he unvote?

hedging his bets?

Btw, here's what Yoshi said:

I will address your point 3 as it is the most important one. At first, I believed the claim. When it was deemed a lie by others, I realized that it DID sound like a lie.

massive overexaggeration indeed.

Annoying when you have a newb scummate, right?

[Anarkistsdream]

Ouch, Haggis.... Hahahaha

[strike wolf]

I have to admit...I can't remember the last time I played this poorly in a mafia game...I had forgotten about that comment doom made after the hammer (what page was that on? I don't have time to read thhrough right now). I honestly thought you were talking about something he said leading up to the lynch.

This would be hard to believe if I hadn't seen my own role pm but I am a townie...I have left small hints about who I am back in the joke phase...I can give you more information about those hints if you require but id prefer to leave it as ambiguous as possible.

[strike wolf]

Edit by post: I also would like to apologize to nag...I have really tried in this mafia and I want to continue playing but I just have played poorly...

[DoomYoshi]

I think people are kind of overlooking haggis...saying that doom proclaimed streaker innocent or anything of the sort was a massive overexaggeration. It was clear that streaker questioned the claim from the beginning. For haggis to read back see how long it took between the unvote and the hammer and not notice that? It seems to me like a clear misrepresentation of what was happening in the game.

sooo, why did he unvote?

hedging his bets?

Btw, here's what Yoshi said:

I will address your point 3 as it is the most important one. At first, I believed the claim. When it was deemed a lie by others, I realized that it DID sound like a lie.

massive overexaggeration indeed.

Annoying when you have a newb scummate, right?

I don't believe in truth being black and white. There is a spectrum of belief. I did believe it, but not 100%. I still had doubts, as you can tell by reading my posts from that time. I am not stupid enough to unvote, hope that someone else votes and then hammer. I am new, but I have only ever won as mafia. I would not be silly enough to fall into a basic trap if I was mafia.