POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 7 Town Win! Premium goes to Sully

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Why are we voting Victor for the cult? I couldn't find a good case already on it. Maybe I missed it.

Sorry for submarining the hell out of this game. I'll pick up the slack. I'm just having a hard time keeping up in this game.

At this point, I don't think we should be concerned with edoc's win condition. No offense edoc, but I don't really care if you win. Actually I don't want you to win because then I can only come in second place, which I don't like. By lynching either edoc or Mandy, we'll be wasting the day and probably giving the cult another recruit. If I've gotten the right impression, I think that cult likely outnumber the scum at this point.

-Tails

[edocsil]

I do need be alive to win and I'm not bulletproof.

Of course, if you have so readily fell for my obvious bluff about being unspokenly bulletproof, then I might be bulletproof and lying to you right now because I am certain that you will fall for it just as you have fallen for my claim about being bulletproof which might be false.

Seriously Edoc, these are the two facts: 1) The Town has more important things to do with their lynches then helping you win at the cost of two less players (me and you since you WILL be engamed when you win) which translates as Mafia/Cult needs one less member to be over 50% of surviving members and win, 2) I might be NKed or I might not be NKed but the longer you survive the longer you can keep the dream of you victory alive (also, your remaining scum-buddies will certainly be aiming at me, unless they too fell for my Bulletproof Bluff (which might be true, but I never said that I am bulletproof so what does that tell you? )). If you get lynched today, which I find likely since there is a little chance that you might actually give us something useful and Townies need to be rid off you one way or another if Town is to win, it doesn't matter if I have been bulletproof or bluffing since you can't win if you're dead.

In short: Tick-tock. Give us a name.

P.S. What principle, you are a bloody traitor?

Then it seems we are at an impasse, our win conditions are mutually exclusive. Let me put this very plainly, I AM NOT ENDGAMED when I win, I have never played as a lyncher, but I can only assume the lyncher doesn't get endgamed when his target is hung. I have this confirmed by the mod, and if you really insist I will ask nicely for him to copy the PM he sent me about it in here. It is looking likely that I will be endgamed in the event of a town victory, but I am asking for clarification on that one. IMO I am more valuable then you are. I know who the scum are and am willing to give them all to the town, and you may or may not be town at all. You do after all have to be alive at the end of the game to win, and your character has a habit of screwing just about everyone at some point during the movie.

In any case Vote Mandy, as he needs to be dead for my win condition, and others should vote for him because of the condition that he must survive to win, it indicates he is not town, and the information you will gain from me after his death.

[mandalorian2298]

OMG, I'm such an idiot. I know what happened. Safari pulled a Fircoal. He allowed Cult to recruit Edoc because Mafia Traitor is green.

All this time I have been wondering has Edoc just made a bad misscalculation or is he using a brilliant stratagem. If he is indeed a Mobster with a survivor VC, then painting a bullseye on his back is too great a price to pay for mere two nights of guaranteed survival. If, on the other hand, he has been recruited by the Cult, then he needs not survive. All he has to do is to keep the Town of Cult Leader's back and tell the Cult Leader who are the scum so that he may not try to recruit one by accident. This means that Cult is now 4 strong (since, judging by the time when he confessed, Edocil has been recruited right on the spot on Night 1 after which Davey Jones had free reign.) This being so....
Unvote vote Tonka

Sorry mate, but out of respect that not only I, but all of us have for you, I must presume that the Cult has recruited you. Were I the Cult Leader, after I recruited Edocsil and thus learned who is who in Mafia, I would definitly recruit: Tonka, Nagerus and then probably Pancakemix, Strike Wolf and /.

"But Mandy", you guys might say, "you are a full-blooded mafia stud. Why haven't you been recruited? More importantly, how do we know that you won't be recruited on the next Night, oh dream of every Cult Leader!?"

To the first question, I will respond that I obviously rank lower then Nag and Tonka in the Cult Leader's eyes (a slight for which I plan to charge him to a full amount ).

To the second I respond: Because I won't be easy to hit. You see, I can't really afford to lower my guard and wait for recruitment, since the whole Mafia will be aiming for captain Jack Sparrow, and I have this pesky survival instinct thing going on. This means that I'm on the Town's side for the rest of this match. It is my best chance to avoid losing until I win.

Also, it is a chance to feed my megalomania some more by going toe to toe against the CC's best.

/, Pancake, Strike, what do you guys think about this theory?

[strike wolf]

Unless you have reason to believe that cult was able to use their recruit ability twice night one than I do not think it works as we already know of the one failed recruit night 1.

[got tonkaed]

Didnt exactly expect to see that post when I checked the thread.

As far as the accusation against me, I can't really respond to much yet regarding it.

I do think edocil has tried to get recruited by the cult though, but I have to go through the thread and figure out where I remember seeing it. Id assume the fact that he hasn't is actually part of his gambit, but thats speculation.

[edocsil]

OMG, I'm such an idiot. I know what happened. Safari pulled a Fircoal. He allowed Cult to recruit Edoc because Mafia Traitor is green.

All this time I have been wondering has Edoc just made a bad misscalculation or is he using a brilliant stratagem. If he is indeed a Mobster with a survivor VC, then painting a bullseye on his back is too great a price to pay for mere two nights of guaranteed survival. If, on the other hand, he has been recruited by the Cult, then he needs not survive. All he has to do is to keep the Town of Cult Leader's back and tell the Cult Leader who are the scum so that he may not try to recruit one by accident. This means that Cult is now 4 strong (since, judging by the time when he confessed, Edocil has been recruited right on the spot on Night 1 after which Davey Jones had free reign.) This being so....
Unvote vote Tonka

Sorry mate, but out of respect that not only I, but all of us have for you, I must presume that the Cult has recruited you. Were I the Cult Leader, after I recruited Edocsil and thus learned who is who in Mafia, I would definitly recruit: Tonka, Nagerus and then probably Pancakemix, Strike Wolf and /.

"But Mandy", you guys might say, "you are a full-blooded mafia stud. Why haven't you been recruited? More importantly, how do we know that you won't be recruited on the next Night, oh dream of every Cult Leader!?"

To the first question, I will respond that I obviously rank lower then Nag and Tonka in the Cult Leader's eyes (a slight for which I plan to charge him to a full amount ).

To the second I respond: Because I won't be easy to hit. You see, I can't really afford to lower my guard and wait for recruitment, since the whole Mafia will be aiming for captain Jack Sparrow, and I have this pesky survival instinct thing going on. This means that I'm on the Town's side for the rest of this match. It is my best chance to avoid losing until I win.

Also, it is a chance to feed my megalomania some more by going toe to toe against the CC's best.

/, Pancake, Strike, what do you guys think about this theory?

Hah! so you are not town either! The only issue with your master plan is it entirely goes against all flavor in the scenes and the fact that I explicitly said D1 that I had a unique role and would explain the next day. Every night besides the first there has been a recruitment. None of them have fit the description of my character. At all. I can only assume the reason we didn't have a N1 recruit is because mafia was targeted. I looks like scum are killed by Jones and and pirates recruited. That should be fairly obvious to anyone paying attention to the flavor at all.

Also Town Traitor is a blue role. If I was a mafia traitor I would win with the town..... just saying....


Edit before post.
Honestly I expected to get recruited, which would have really sucked because then my win condition would have been to survive, and my D1 actions have pretty much determined that I will not see the end of the game.

[Commander9]

Unless you have reason to believe that cult was able to use their recruit ability twice night one than I do not think it works as we already know of the one failed recruit night 1.

AND he didn't appear in the scenes as well.

[DoomYoshi]

I am not sure whether to vote nagerous or Sully. I will start with vote Sully though. He is the best candidate for cult recruiter right now. Note how both of them are in favour of scum-hunting as opposed to cult recruiter hunting.

Not sure how you got that from what I have said so far, have an actual read of my posts.

FOS Doom for skimming

You are calling for the entire list of mafia. Presumably the one thing holding cult back from winning? I haven't skimmed. I may have oversimplified your argument but I am focusing more on Victor right now than you.

I'm guessing that you are one of the remaining mafia because I fail to see that is scummy at all. Also have a browse at my earlier posts in the day, I have specified that we need to lynch the cult today and said it clearly is a must.. Having the entire list of mafia will no doubt help the town for later lynches.

I didn't say anything about it being scummy. I blatantly accused you of being in the cult.

@mafia: if you would just out yourself, you could take away edoc's bargaining power. At this point, it is the best option since you are screwed either way. Everyone knows he will crack under pressure anyways.

[edocsil]

I am not sure whether to vote nagerous or Sully. I will start with vote Sully though. He is the best candidate for cult recruiter right now. Note how both of them are in favour of scum-hunting as opposed to cult recruiter hunting.

Not sure how you got that from what I have said so far, have an actual read of my posts.

FOS Doom for skimming

You are calling for the entire list of mafia. Presumably the one thing holding cult back from winning? I haven't skimmed. I may have oversimplified your argument but I am focusing more on Victor right now than you.

I'm guessing that you are one of the remaining mafia because I fail to see that is scummy at all. Also have a browse at my earlier posts in the day, I have specified that we need to lynch the cult today and said it clearly is a must.. Having the entire list of mafia will no doubt help the town for later lynches.

I didn't say anything about it being scummy. I blatantly accused you of being in the cult.

@mafia: if you would just out yourself, you could take away edoc's bargaining power. At this point, it is the best option since you are screwed either way. Everyone knows he will crack under pressure anyways.

Lol. Too funny. This isn't real life, you have no idea what I will do, and no offense but you shouldn't say that you know what a more experienced player will do, or even a lesser player. You can never assume you know the whole story in a Mafia game, so you cannot know what all the possible actions of a player are. Also, the scum will never oust themselves because they have their fingers tightly crossed that someone will off me in the night before they all croak.

[edocsil]

Oh, and one other thing, I wish to formally withdraw my eligibility for the prize of the Premium, as I no longer play risk here any longer. I am here for these games now, and winning these while having tremendous fun is my objective.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Mandy(2)- pcm, edoc
edoc(1)- strike
tonka(1)- Mandy

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[safariguy5]

Clarification

Alternate Win Conditions do endgame the player. Disregard any clarifications I might have sent before this announcement. And hat tip to LOTR mafia for helping me clear this up. Proceed.

[DoomYoshi]

Oh, and one other thing, I wish to formally withdraw my eligibility for the prize of the Premium, as I no longer play risk here any longer. I am here for these games now, and winning these while having tremendous fun is my objective.

Well you definitely have had the biggest impact up to this point, so it increases the odds for the rest of us. What does it mean to you if you are endgamed by an alternate win condition?

[mandalorian2298]

Unless you have reason to believe that cult was able to use their recruit ability twice night one than I do not think it works as we already know of the one failed recruit night 1.

You guys a putting too much stock into flavor scenes. If you're going to base things on Scenes, then we should lynch Freezie as a recrutee because Mr. Gibbs is the last remaining grizzled old man:

Meanwhile, a grizzled old man peered through his telescope. He was looking for someone to get rid of all the obstacles the pirates were dealing with. Surely, there must be a way of stopping the East India Trading Company and the forces of the sea.

A sound behind him made him whirl around in surprise.

A clawed hand packed an ivory pipe and stuck it to the wet lips of an enormous man.

"Tell me, do you fear death?"

"I do."

Also, a Cult Leader dies if he targets scum, otherwise the role would be waaay overpowered.

Anyway FALKO can you tell us if you have happened to be killing Saxland last Night?

Also, it would really help if you told us, yes or no, if you have an additional mission of some kind?

Also, please don't give me a sword, I way to irresponsible to wield it (this is not reverse psychology, I seriously don't want you targeting me tonight).

Didnt exactly expect to see that post when I checked the thread.

As far as the accusation against me, I can't really respond to much yet regarding it.

I do think edocil has tried to get recruited by the cult though, but I have to go through the thread and figure out where I remember seeing it. Id assume the fact that he hasn't is actually part of his gambit, but thats speculation.

Of course not, I am not so much accusing you of doing something scummy as much as I am concluding that Cult+Edoc's behaviour lead to your being scum.

[strike wolf]

It means that if we lynch mandy BEFORE he gives us the names than he won't be around to give us the names. So I stick by what I've been saying. If you want us to lynch mandy edoc, give us the names beforehand. I promise I won't personally lynch you and we'll use them to our advantage. In exchange I'm sure we can work out a plan that will help you as well. I would rather spend today lynching victor as the most suspicious character to date or if not yoshi because his last few posts have given me some scum vibes and fulfill any deals with edoc about mandy tomorrow. unvote edoc

The thing about dying when targeting scum isn't always true HOWEVER, I do think that Davey Jones is limited beyond what we have seen so far (for one thing given what I know of Davey Jones and what I've seen from the scenes, I'm thinking he can only recruit people who were supposed to die (seemingly by his own hands) so if the person he tries to recruit has any kind of bullet protection or is being protected it does not work). I can not ignore the scene where it was quite obvious that Davey Jones appeared before Admiral Norrington and I can not ignore that every other scene has an apparent recruitment involved. Why guise any recruitments night 1 if you are just going to have flavor about them in Night 2 and 3 unless the scene with Admiral Norrington was the scene night 1. The only other explanation is that the cult recruiter was inactive night 1 which is preposterous because A. if he was inactive than safari would have tried to get a replacement in before sunrise and B. why be inactive Night 1 as the cult recruiter when every successful recruitment boosts your status? There is the risk of running into scum but theoretically that chance hasn't really been increased over time. Also considering that the person in the scene that night was part of the Black Pearl I don't think it's completely illogical to suspect freezie as having been recruited but I'm not sure if the actions fit when he could have been more discreet about the recruitment process. Unless he has reason to believe that Jones wouldn't be able to recruit you which i suppose is possible especially as an unrecruitable character isn't unlikely in a 21 player game if Jones as the evidence appears to support kills mafia members rather than being killed by them when he attempts recruitment.

[mandalorian2298]

Scene with Admiral Norington is FROM THE BLOODY MOVIE! It just means that Safari likes the movie. Seriously people, since when do we metagame based on SCENES?! Did I miss a meeting?

[safariguy5]

I made an omission with the Day 3 lynch. Forgot a win condition being triggered.

Scene

With the death of Cutler Beckett. Elizabeth Swann was sufficiently satisfied that the man who had wronged her father would no longer trouble her life. She went off to await Will's return from the sea.

VioIet, Elizabeth Swann, (Town Doublevoter and Lover) has won.



With Elizabeth safe, Will is able to focus on ridding the seas of his enemies.

[DoomYoshi]

So is the game over now?

[strike wolf]

Just a separate win condition. Congrats Vio. Anyways mandy, you tell me not to metagame based on scenes but isn't that exactly what you did to figure out that Nark was Angel in the buffy mafia? However that being said I realize that your behavior is mostly served as an effort to keep yourself from being lynched and at this point I would rather hunt for the Cult Recruiter. revote victor sullivan for misinformation, lurking, flawed logic, skimming and overall scummy play. fos doomyoshi for flawed logic

[safariguy5]

So is the game over now?

Game continues, but VioIet is no longer in the game.

[edocsil]

It means that if we lynch mandy BEFORE he gives us the names than he won't be around to give us the names. So I stick by what I've been saying. If you want us to lynch mandy edoc, give us the names beforehand. I promise I won't personally lynch you and we'll use them to our advantage. In exchange I'm sure we can work out a plan that will help you as well. I would rather spend today lynching victor as the most suspicious character to date or if not yoshi because his last few posts have given me some scum vibes and fulfill any deals with edoc about mandy tomorrow. unvote edoc

The thing about dying when targeting scum isn't always true HOWEVER, I do think that Davey Jones is limited beyond what we have seen so far (for one thing given what I know of Davey Jones and what I've seen from the scenes, I'm thinking he can only recruit people who were supposed to die (seemingly by his own hands) so if the person he tries to recruit has any kind of bullet protection or is being protected it does not work). I can not ignore the scene where it was quite obvious that Davey Jones appeared before Admiral Norrington and I can not ignore that every other scene has an apparent recruitment involved. Why guise any recruitments night 1 if you are just going to have flavor about them in Night 2 and 3 unless the scene with Admiral Norrington was the scene night 1. The only other explanation is that the cult recruiter was inactive night 1 which is preposterous because A. if he was inactive than safari would have tried to get a replacement in before sunrise and B. why be inactive Night 1 as the cult recruiter when every successful recruitment boosts your status? There is the risk of running into scum but theoretically that chance hasn't really been increased over time. Also considering that the person in the scene that night was part of the Black Pearl I don't think it's completely illogical to suspect freezie as having been recruited but I'm not sure if the actions fit when he could have been more discreet about the recruitment process. Unless he has reason to believe that Jones wouldn't be able to recruit you which i suppose is possible especially as an unrecruitable character isn't unlikely in a 21 player game if Jones as the evidence appears to support kills mafia members rather than being killed by them when he attempts recruitment.

Personally would go with we hang him, I place the last vote and tell you the remaining names in the same post. Cross my fingers for no Mayor/Sympathetic Mayor. This will be more complicated with the update in the rules. Just for the record I do have a PM from him saying different rules, I wasn't kidding. I also asked for him to confirm that just in case.

Mandy, as far as your suggestion that we lynch Gibbs, I think it would be a good idea if there were a few things different. A, NK sounds better B, I cared about the Cult goonies and C, another wasn't just going to be recruited in the night anyways.

[Victor Sullivan]

Just a separate win condition. Congrats Vio. Anyways mandy, you tell me not to metagame based on scenes but isn't that exactly what you did to figure out that Nark was Angel in the buffy mafia? However that being said I realize that your behavior is mostly served as an effort to keep yourself from being lynched and at this point I would rather hunt for the Cult Recruiter. revote victor sullivan for misinformation, lurking, flawed logic, skimming and overall scummy play. fos doomyoshi for flawed logic

Misinformation? Flawed logic?? Scummy play??? Lurking??-oh, wait, well maybe a little Days 1 and 2, but I don't understand where this is all coming from...

[strike wolf]

1. lurking-you know where that's coming from you barely said anything day 1 and less of value.

2. Misinformation/flawed logic-You on at least two separate occasions tried to build a case based on inaccurate information and later information that didn't fit for what you were accusing the person of. You haven't really answered why to any questions raised about those cases either.

3. skimming-I'd have to look back but I'm pretty sure I saw you post something that was pretty definitively skimming.

4. Scummy play-the lurking and misuse of logic alone add up to scummy play. The fact that you've mostly submarined especially day one and only popped up to give blanket statements not really arguing anything going on in the game only showing a basic understanding of what's happening at that particular moment. Furthermore when we talked about how Davey Jones killed Admiral Norrington you have consistently insisted it was a vig when all evidence both in the scene (a description of the person fitting that of Davey Jones as well as a line he uses in the movie) and in the game (pretty much no suspicion on Mr. Squirrel) make that seem very unlikely. This makes me think you are trying to cover up for a kill that you caused.

Edoc, the problem I see with that plan is in order to protect themselves a mafia member could rush in and lynch him before you get the chance. Obviously it would reveal that person to be mafia but it would also keep the other mafia member (I would imagine the more important one) hidden.

[Commander9]

Scene with Admiral Norington is FROM THE BLOODY MOVIE! It just means that Safari likes the movie. Seriously people, since when do we metagame based on SCENES?! Did I miss a meeting?

Some mods leave out clues and in the scenes and I have to side with SW here - I don't think that scene was just flavour related.

Personally would go with we hang him, I place the last vote and tell you the remaining names in the same post. Cross my fingers for no Mayor/Sympathetic Mayor. This will be more complicated with the update in the rules. Just for the record I do have a PM from him saying different rules, I wasn't kidding. I also asked for him to confirm that just in case.

As SW pointed out, even putting you at L-2 is very risky, so I'm not quite sure how that's such a good idea. Tell you what - if you give all other scum information that we need and perhaps point out trusty individuals (without revealing their roles), I can promise you that I'll do everything that I can that you'd get your lynch. If not, we've got plenty of other avenues to go to (especially since we've got a Cult recruiter out there), so you can wait till another day and hope you're still alive.

[edocsil]

1. lurking-you know where that's coming from you barely said anything day 1 and less of value.

2. Misinformation/flawed logic-You on at least two separate occasions tried to build a case based on inaccurate information and later information that didn't fit for what you were accusing the person of. You haven't really answered why to any questions raised about those cases either.

3. skimming-I'd have to look back but I'm pretty sure I saw you post something that was pretty definitively skimming.

4. Scummy play-the lurking and misuse of logic alone add up to scummy play. The fact that you've mostly submarined especially day one and only popped up to give blanket statements not really arguing anything going on in the game only showing a basic understanding of what's happening at that particular moment. Furthermore when we talked about how Davey Jones killed Admiral Norrington you have consistently insisted it was a vig when all evidence both in the scene (a description of the person fitting that of Davey Jones as well as a line he uses in the movie) and in the game (pretty much no suspicion on Mr. Squirrel) make that seem very unlikely. This makes me think you are trying to cover up for a kill that you caused.

Edoc, the problem I see with that plan is in order to protect themselves a mafia member could rush in and lynch him before you get the chance. Obviously it would reveal that person to be mafia but it would also keep the other mafia member (I would imagine the more important one) hidden.

That is possible, Perhaps something could be coordinated at L-2? That would work reasonably well I can assume.

Com, I don't know what you mean by trusty individuals, and I don't like relying on a hey, we will help you later...