POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 7 Town Win! Premium goes to Sully

[strike wolf]

Let me guess you figured out that he was calypso because that is the only role in the movie that logically fits as neither town nor anti-town?

[mandalorian2298]

Seriously, putting aside the whole issue of whether or not I'm scum, are you guys really saying that, if I were in Mafia, I would be more likely to suggest the Doc-Watcher Lover-saving scenario if I had a Watcher with me in Mafia? I don't see what one has to do with the other.

This scenario would only make sense if I was green as grass and have never heard of Watcher until I had one in Mafia with me.

Not sure whether you've done this intentionally (I'm pretty sure it was, but lets put this as a hypothesis for argument's sake), but it would have been completely different. A mafia watcher would have been a role that could have easily gained town's trust, direct the cases and manipulate town. Lets just say that you could have been trying to make us get used to that idea and also hinting at your townyness at the same time.

Well, it is real nice of you to finally explain your accusation in a coherent manner. The scum strategy that you are suggesting is conceivable, but shortsighted, which is why I would never employ it in the manner that you suggest. If I understand you correctly, the plan of Scummy-Mandy would be to a) tell the town to trust the Watcher, b) in an opportune moment, Mafia Watcher would prove that he is indeed a Watcher and then, should the need arise, he would provide Scummy-Mandy with an alibi or would defend him using his "proven townie" leverage.

However, Real Mandy would never use this strategy. You see, the problem lies in the facts that a) I firmly believe that there are at least two anti-Town factions in this game (EITC and The Dutchman, at least) and b) Watcher is a defensive role. He does not get any protection but for his anonymity. He only claims when he has a 100% proof that someone is scum and, unless the game ends, he will certainly be killed on the next Night, especially since the Doc is busy protecting the Lovers. And, after his best-pal-the-Watcher is revealed to be Mafia, Scummy Mandy would be the next to walk the plank.

Which is why Mandy's Doctrine on playing Scum: "Never work together during the Day, unless we have an opportunity to win on the spot."

My vote stays on Nag though, for skimming:

I also didn't like the way he voted fircoal but then tried to wash his hands of the lynch.

Änyone who has been actually playing during Day 1 knows that I have first washed my hands of Chu lynch when it looked like the Town is just being lazy and lynching the inactive to avoid having to think. However, after Chu posted his absurd mass-over-substance defense, I concluded that there is good chance that he indeed is scum and voted for him with him on L-2, a decision behind which I still stand, since I really can't be blamed for the haphazard way in which Chu played this game.

P.S. Give Strike a cookie. (Although I just concluded that he wants us to think that he is Calypso. Or, it might be that he is Calypso and he is trying to get himself recruited by Davy Jones, rather then face the odds in what I assume is currently a solo survivor role (only truly great players, like the Legendary SK Talapus , stand a chance as solo survivors, and it's not a good chance, so I would certainly call this a logical strategy, if that is what he's doing).

[edocsil]

Let me guess you figured out that he was calypso because that is the only role in the movie that logically fits as neither town nor anti-town?

Lol he ain't even close. There are so many gray characters out there i am surprised he even tried to guess. When I followed your lead yesterday there were only a few options, join a bandwagon and cross your fingers or go for a NL. I don't like NL on principle, and as I said, the more claims out there the better I am going to do in this game. I thought you might have been on to something with commander, but now 2 weeks later (ish?) my opinion has changed.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

edocsil(2)- Falkomagno, streaker
strike wolf(3)- PCM, Victor, Saxlad
Mandy(2)- Com9, edocsil
nag(1)- Mandy
Com9(1)- freezie
streaker(1)- tails

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

I have to say, everyone is playing really well this game. Kudos for keeping the posting up as well as the quality of the game.

[got tonkaed]

To me so far I think Tail probably made the best argument so far in day 2. Obviously the main thread will probably lead us to edocil at somepoint, because why would you not push on someone who has clearly stated they are not town. Having said that, there are two other paths we probably need to lead down as well.

1. Mandy/commander - While there may be a lot of permutations regarding their two alignments, it seems likely at the moment to me that lynching one of the two is likely to turn up a positive result for the town. Id say at the moment the balance turns ever so slightly against Mandy but that could probably change as more people continue to post.

2. Streaker - I dont think the justifications are really that strong for the day 1 behavior. Plenty of people did not really jump on bandwagons and the hammer was seemingly unnecessary when it happened. On top of that Streaker does seem to be a little to interested in setting very clear paths for the conversation to take, which might direct attention away from where it could bring greater benefit.

Out of those 3.5 those would be the players I would want to hear more from. Edocil can wait a while for me, just because it is obvious that we will come back to that later. It is absurd to avoid pushing against a player who has claimed against town.

[edocsil]

To me so far I think Tail probably made the best argument so far in day 2. Obviously the main thread will probably lead us to edocil at somepoint, because why would you not push on someone who has clearly stated they are not town. Having said that, there are two other paths we probably need to lead down as well.

1. Mandy/commander - While there may be a lot of permutations regarding their two alignments, it seems likely at the moment to me that lynching one of the two is likely to turn up a positive result for the town. Id say at the moment the balance turns ever so slightly against Mandy but that could probably change as more people continue to post.

2. Streaker - I don't think the justifications are really that strong for the day 1 behavior. Plenty of people did not really jump on bandwagons and the hammer was seemingly unnecessary when it happened. On top of that Streaker does seem to be a little to interested in setting very clear paths for the conversation to take, which might direct attention away from where it could bring greater benefit.

Out of those 3.5 those would be the players I would want to hear more from. Edoc'sil can wait a while for me, just because it is obvious that we will come back to that later. It is absurd to avoid pushing against a player who has claimed against town.

Yes, I know full well that my gambit will come back to bite me eventually, I just need to last for a while, I do not need to be alive to win. I have no expectations of being at the endgame.

I fully agree with all your points. I see Commander or Mandy being forced to claim, perhaps even both. We need all the others to come out of the woodwork, we need to pick apart their logic for who they want to lynch, find a target and continue on with this day.

[strike wolf]

Fair assessment by Got tonkaed...probably mandy if not commander are going to have to claim. At this point I am going to vote mandy as A) the vote count apparently says I hadn't voted for him though I thought I had and B) I currently find him the better choice of the two for reasons previously stated.

[Commander9]

Well, it is real nice of you to finally explain your accusation in a coherent manner. The scum strategy that you are suggesting is conceivable, but shortsighted, which is why I would never employ it in the manner that you suggest. If I understand you correctly, the plan of Scummy-Mandy would be to a) tell the town to trust the Watcher, b) in an opportune moment, Mafia Watcher would prove that he is indeed a Watcher and then, should the need arise, he would provide Scummy-Mandy with an alibi or would defend him using his "proven townie" leverage.

However, Real Mandy would never use this strategy. You see, the problem lies in the facts that a) I firmly believe that there are at least two anti-Town factions in this game (EITC and The Dutchman, at least) and b) Watcher is a defensive role. He does not get any protection but for his anonymity. He only claims when he has a 100% proof that someone is scum and, unless the game ends, he will certainly be killed on the next Night, especially since the Doc is busy protecting the Lovers. And, after his best-pal-the-Watcher is revealed to be Mafia, Scummy Mandy would be the next to walk the plank.

Which is why Mandy's Doctrine on playing Scum: "Never work together during the Day, unless we have an opportunity to win on the spot."

If a person is not trying to be an asshole, I'm doing the same. I'm normally a nice guy, but I'm not afraid to respond hard, if it's needed. I guess that comes with being an Eastern European

Well, no, there are other ways you could play this out. Normally watchers are pro-town (this is the first time ever I've seen watcher of a different alignment) and this would be a role that shouldn't get investigated and help scum out quite a bit. As long as the watcher is around, he can provide real data with skewed interpretations and manipulate the town. Furthermore, if needed, a watcher could also help clear mafia members with real results (or ones that are impossible to prove).

I've never said that he would have outed himself straight away (although it could) - it's a delicate and a greatly useful role, which would likely to be protected by the doc, so it could come out at any time it would be needed. My own interpretation of D1 would have been that you've been trying to setup a stage for watcher and when he'd provide results (when a lynch would be needed or someone would be in trouble), you could easily be made to look into pro-town. This would work especially well if you would sacrifice one of your own (to get credibility) and you'd likely be able to lead the wagon.

But... you and Squirrel never worked together on Day 1 (if anything, I could see you trying to look on different sides). Besides, you can always find exceptions, especially if it's not an obvious relationship.

Änyone who has been actually playing during Day 1 knows that I have first washed my hands of Chu lynch when it looked like the Town is just being lazy and lynching the inactive to avoid having to think. However, after Chu posted his absurd mass-over-substance defense, I concluded that there is good chance that he indeed is scum and voted for him with him on L-2, a decision behind which I still stand, since I really can't be blamed for the haphazard way in which Chu played this game.

P.S. Give Strike a cookie. (Although I just concluded that he wants us to think that he is Calypso. Or, it might be that he is Calypso and he is trying to get himself recruited by Davy Jones, rather then face the odds in what I assume is currently a solo survivor role (only truly great players, like the Legendary SK Talapus , stand a chance as solo survivors, and it's not a good chance, so I would certainly call this a logical strategy, if that is what he's doing).

I completely disagree with your assessment of chu's post (from what I've read from you, I'm 90% sure you never fully read it) - he posted a lot of great thoughts and ideas and while his last part wasn't too bright, generally it was a great post. Furthermore, I will stand with what I've said before - Fir shouldn't have been hammered and both you and Streaker are extremely suspicious to me.

[Commander9]

@ Everyone else

I honestly don't see how I've been scummy, but I'm fully willing to sacrifice myself for the greater good of the town, should it be needed.

[Streaker]

I still don't get the argument of hammering that's being used against me. I only did what I believed was right, at that time. We were close to deadline, and I didn't believe his claim. Even now, we know we can trust his book. The entire time, and I'm not just talking about this game, most players are telling everyone how bad a No-Lynch on Day 1 is. Lately there have been some arguments against it, but nothing much yet. When I see a deadline so close then, with someone all strapped up and giving me a bad feeling, I'll hang him.
IMO, the most scummy part of Fircoal was that he gave his explanation so close to the deadline, fully aware we wouldn't be able to build another lynch. At that time, I thought it was a good scum play.

For now, I will stick by my vote on edoc.

[nagerous]

I was thinking in another possibility. Maybe Davy Jones target me or my lover, but a bus driver save us ( a bus driver swap characters for night actions).

And I have a shame confession to make...I didn't watch any of the movies

You Sir, should be hung just for that. Now go watch those movies!

I think I need to go do the same, a lot of the flavour stuff is currently going over my head.

As per your vote on edocsil, to me that doesn't seem like a good call at all right now in light of what he has said. Later in the game, he might be a good target for perhaps a vig kill but for the day 2 lynch, I think we definitely have bigger fish to fry and mafia have more to gain from lynching him than the town.

Sorry, I really hate to undermine an argument about a guy who I agree is suspicious but I've been mafia (or at least started the game as such) 4+ times now. In each game the mod himself never told me the role of my fellow scum buddies, I knew their alignment but they could have been a usurper, a mafia cop, goon, etc., and I have been mafia in a safariguy hosted game before. So unless someone is able to disprove that as not being the case in other safari games that part of the argument appears inaccurate.

Both Sax's and Illy's mafia had full role names and character names. I've never played Safari's game before (at least I don't think so), so I can't say about Safari's games,but in general, I think, most of the games give out that information.

Never been scum in one of Saf's games. I always tell the scum all the roles. Some people don't though.

We were told all our scum buddy roles when I was mafia in the Quentin Tarrantino mafia, note - we also had fake claims and they were quite strong fake claims too.

[strike wolf]

First of all i have to agree with commander that mandy's statement to rebut the mafia watcher "connection" is narrow minded. Mandy said himself that the watcher would only be forced to claim if he had close to a 100% chance that he had found scum. If squirrel played well which he actually was despite a random mafia kill (possibly redirected) than he could easily slip by for a couple of days or more before having to reveal his role or it being revealed through night kill and really other than nag and commander not many people really believed in any connection strongly so even when revealed he was mafia watcher it would be possible for you to try to get out of it. As far as regarding fircoal's lynch two of the issues you pointed out:

A. It being evident that Fircoal was intentionally lurking. Very observant fircoal mentioned that himself more than once.

B. Fircoal fosing 11 people and voting edoc. First of all he was right about edoc (kind of) second of all it seemed obvious to me that part of the reason for fircoal fosing so many people was kind of a slap in the face to anyone who had questioned his intent to find any scumtells within the game by pointing out multiple people who did have scum tells.

Secondly I think I've mentioned something along the lines of this previously but streaker your view on the fircoal hammer iks problematic. There was still well over half a day left before dead line and you robbed most of the people on the wagon any chance to unvote if they believed his comment. So yeah your hammer was premature.

[strike wolf]

In other news, Mass Miracle, iliad, vio and haggis all haven't posted for at least a week. considering mass has been continually inactive, I'd suggest replacing him rather than prodding him so that he makes one post and then disappears again.

[safariguy5]

In other news, Mass Miracle, iliad, vio and haggis all haven't posted for at least a week. considering mass has been continually inactive, I'd suggest replacing him rather than prodding him so that he makes one post and then disappears again.

Ok, I'll see what I can do with Mass, probably replace iliad, will prod the others.

[Commander9]

By any chance we could get a deadline? (Perhaps 1 week?) We need to get this moving.

[safariguy5]

By any chance we could get a deadline? (Perhaps 1 week?) We need to get this moving.

Announcement

Deadline is on the 13th of April.

[Commander9]

Danke Schön.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

edocsil(2)- Falkomagno, streaker
strike wolf(3)- PCM, Victor, Saxlad
Mandy(3)- Com9, edocsil, strike wolf
nag(1)- Mandy
Com9(1)- freezie
streaker(1)- tails

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline in 7 days.

[safariguy5]

Announcement

sheepofdumb has replaced Iliad.

[Falkomagno]

I fully agree with all your points. I see Commander or Mandy being forced to claim, perhaps even both. We need all the others to come out of the woodwork, we need to pick apart their logic for who they want to lynch, find a target and continue on with this day.

So, you just want more people to claim, then you figure it out who is the one that you need, and then kill him at night. Or maybe lets not go that far, but the most interested in claiming, specially in early days are anti-town fractions. This statement make you look really really bad, I don't see why to risk to hang any other one here, with a uncertainty that can ends townie, when we have a confirmed no-town character who partially claim for no reason, and who even say that he doesn't need to be alive to win.

Correct me if I'm wrong but vote for edocil is the most easy and logical choice

[edocsil]

I fully agree with all your points. I see Commander or Mandy being forced to claim, perhaps even both. We need all the others to come out of the woodwork, we need to pick apart their logic for who they want to lynch, find a target and continue on with this day.

So, you just want more people to claim, then you figure it out who is the one that you need, and then kill him at night. Or maybe lets not go that far, but the most interested in claiming, specially in early days are anti-town fractions. This statement make you look really really bad, I don't see why to risk to hang any other one here, with a uncertainty that can ends townie, when we have a confirmed no-town character who partially claim for no reason, and who even say that he doesn't need to be alive to win.

Correct me if I'm wrong but vote for Edoc'sil is the most easy and logical choice

Your not considering the depth of this game. Many people have hinted at the fact that they have multiple win conditions. Unfortunately parts of your post weren't coherent and I am not quite certain of your meaning, which I have colored. If it means what I think it does, here is my reply.

You can't simply kill off everyone who isn't town, I have reason to believe that the town isn't large enough to win without help from the various third party members out there. I have my own goals, but they are not exclusive to the towns. I gave some info about myself because I felt that I was the most likely candidate for a lynch. Also due to the fact that I have no abilities whatsoever I desire to not be forced to claim, as my role is an informative one, and information is only useful if you are the only one who knows it. Hopefully the tidbits will be enough to get people off my back and prevent a forced claim.

Next point, me saying I don't need to be alive to win means the exact opposite of what you assumed. Townies and certain 3rd parties do not need to be alive to win, scum and cult generally do. Why you think that me scumy is beyond my comprehension. At some point in the game I will need a favor, and those who help me will be compensated. If I am not trusted afterward, you can kill me and go sleep easily.

Honestly, if you didn't an ironclad claim I would have voted you for that.

[Commander9]

So, you just want more people to claim, then you figure it out who is the one that you need, and then kill him at night. Or maybe lets not go that far, but the most interested in claiming, specially in early days are anti-town fractions. This statement make you look really really bad, I don't see why to risk to hang any other one here, with a uncertainty that can ends townie, when we have a confirmed no-town character who partially claim for no reason, and who even say that he doesn't need to be alive to win.

Correct me if I'm wrong but vote for edocil is the most easy and logical choice

He may be scummy (and I definitely don't trust him) and an easy lynch, but I disagree about him being the logical lynch. I'm fairly confident that we have at least 2 more logical lynches (Streaker and Mandy) and I would much rather go with these 2 than Edoc.

Your not considering the depth of this game. Many people have hinted at the fact that they have multiple win conditions. Unfortunately parts of your post weren't coherent and I am not quite certain of your meaning, which I have colored. If it means what I think it does, here is my reply.

You can't simply kill off everyone who isn't town, I have reason to believe that the town isn't large enough to win without help from the various third party members out there. I have my own goals, but they are not exclusive to the towns. I gave some info about myself because I felt that I was the most likely candidate for a lynch. Also due to the fact that I have no abilities whatsoever I desire to not be forced to claim, as my role is an informative one, and information is only useful if you are the only one who knows it. Hopefully the tidbits will be enough to get people off my back and prevent a forced claim.

Next point, me saying I don't need to be alive to win means the exact opposite of what you assumed. Townies and certain 3rd parties do not need to be alive to win, scum and cult generally do. Why you think that me scumy is beyond my comprehension. At some point in the game I will need a favor, and those who help me will be compensated. If I am not trusted afterward, you can kill me and go sleep easily.

Honestly, if you didn't an ironclad claim I would have voted you for that.

Somewhat agreed. One problem could be if you're a recruiter or if your win conditions would hinder the town significantly, but there's no way for us to find it out. If not Mandy's manipulations and streaker's very odd and hectic behaviour, you along with a couple of others would be my preferred lynches, but as long as those 2 around, while I wouldn't mind being rid of you, won't go out of my way to get those two.

[sheepofdumb]

Confirming. I'll catch up as soon as I can but finals are coming up which means it's the perfect time to procrastinate.

[Mass Miracle]

Yes, I know full well that my gambit will come back to bite me eventually, I just need to last for a while, I do not need to be alive to win. I have no expectations of being at the endgame.

I fully agree with all your points. I see Commander or Mandy being forced to claim, perhaps even both. We need all the others to come out of the woodwork, we need to pick apart their logic for who they want to lynch, find a target and continue on with this day.

As I make my way out of the woodwork, here is my take: I agree that Davey Jones is not for the town, I do think that he's from another faction.

The whole watcher scenario with Mandy does not make sense. I tend to think he mentioned a watcher for whatever reason and the Squirrel killing was a complete fluke, if he knew there was a mafia watcher why mention it...it would seem that if/when he got lynched we would all be looking at him the next day...and maybe we should be.

From Edoc...Yes, I know full well that my gambit will come back to bite me eventually, I just need to last for a while, I do not need to be alive to win. I have no expectations of being at the endgame.

Interesting strategy here...playing the alternate win condition card. I'm having trouble with this one, I don't know enough about this game to understand this strategy, but to me admitting you are not town so early even with the likely third faction is enough to put the spotlight on yourself. I need to hear more on this and until I do VOTE EDOC

[nagerous]

I'm going ahead and put money where my initial thoughts were and vote mandy. I've been wrong so far when playing this game but I get the sense that there might be a push from mandy's scum buddies to shift the vote and pressure away from him and onto edocsil. People who vote third party at this stage seems pretty scummy in my book. From what I've seen from edoc so far it seems like he may have some strange alternate WC like he must make sure there is a lynch every game day, considering the amount of reckless bandwagoning that he has been involved in which seems somewhat out of character.