POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 7 Town Win! Premium goes to Sully

[Commander9]

Commander, I think that was pretty unnecessary. I have read and re-read illiad's post, and he is not attacking you. He never stated that you shouldn't defend yourself and discuss more. Rather I think he was interested in you, for the same reason that I am. It seems as though you are holding in a lot of hostility.

I feel that myself, falko, and perhaps even strike have been voted due to some misunderstandings, but our defences have never reached the level of aggression that yours has. I understand you defending yourself, and being frustrated- but the more you post- the more I am finding something unnerving about it.

I did not attack Iliad - I asked a rhetorical (well, not completely rhetorical) question. This is more so directed at Mandy/Strike.

[strike wolf]

Commander, you say that you are attacking the misuse of logic and what I have been saying is that that has only seemed to applied when it is against attacks directed at you and often those attacks have been based on your own misunderstandings (intentional or accidental) yet you have been lax on them when it is not you who's been accused based on false logic.

As far as falko. I believe he is actually L-2.

Mandy I don't really understand your viewpoint on tghe falko wagon. So you don't think that falko is scummy? Why?

[TheSaxlad]

Commander, you say that you are attacking the misuse of logic and what I have been saying is that that has only seemed to applied when it is against attacks directed at you and often those attacks have been based on your own misunderstandings (intentional or accidental) yet you have been lax on them when it is not you who's been accused based on false logic.

As far as falko. I believe he is actually L-2.

Mandy I don't really understand your viewpoint on tghe falko wagon. So you don't think that falko is scummy? Why?

Lovers? Although I believe Mandy is too smart to defend that way, it would be too obvious.

[Commander9]

Commander, you say that you are attacking the misuse of logic and what I have been saying is that that has only seemed to applied when it is against attacks directed at you and often those attacks have been based on your own misunderstandings (intentional or accidental) yet you have been lax on them when it is not you who's been accused based on false logic.

If you'd notice, I try to point any false logic that I notice. Also, would you mind also provide those attacks of mine based on my own misunderstandings?

[Falkomagno]

Wow, sadly, yesterday I had to go to the hospital for a stomach complication, unable to post and to play of course, but today I’m ready to take my place in this game. And when I check, I have 8 or 9 votes against me.

I think my past actions has given to the town at least the chance to hear about inactives, so this last days before the deadline will be plenty of post of most of the players to make a good decision regarding the lynch of today. The idea is that along the day you can use your vote as much as you can, to raise discussion, but only the last vote is the one who is real. Seems like some people think that that behavior is anti-town, I cannot see why. So, some townie votes are just playing naïve or under shallow reasoning, and the bad guys take advantage of the situation, to guarantee a pro-town lynch,

Sadly, I’m in the worst position so far, with a lot of scummy votes which want me dead.

I would like to make the case that get me most scummy of all. Even if is useless, since it seems really unlikely another lynch than myself today
Strike wolf have been a strong case all along the game. So far its scummtells are the following:

• Been defensive when people talk about generic scummy partner. Shows guilty, classical scumtell
• Joining to my bandwagon pretty shameless for a unclear reasons. Reveals a strategic vote to get an easy lynch on day 1
• In general, from the beginning of the day, just saying things not really involved in any argument, hoping it works later.

But the shameless bandwagoning and opportunistic votes of edosil, and streaker should be having into account for sure in next days. Please consider check the isolate post ob those two and make a educated vote

So, unvote, vote strike wolf

Sinc e I’m L-2 I’m willing to claim anytime.

[TheSaxlad]

Claim Then.

Who or what are you?

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Mandy(2)- Fircoal, Commander
Commander9(3)- VioIet, tails, mandy
VioIet(1)- Mass Miracle
strike wolf(4)- Victor, pcm, Mr. S, falko
Falkomagno(9)- Nark, streaker, Haggis, nagerous, edocsil, freezie, strike wolf, iliad, /

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline is in 2 days.

[strike wolf]

Wow, sadly, yesterday I had to go to the hospital for a stomach complication, unable to post and to play of course, but today I’m ready to take my place in this game. And when I check, I have 8 or 9 votes against me.

I think my past actions has given to the town at least the chance to hear about inactives, so this last days before the deadline will be plenty of post of most of the players to make a good decision regarding the lynch of today. The idea is that along the day you can use your vote as much as you can, to raise discussion, but only the last vote is the one who is real. Seems like some people think that that behavior is anti-town, I cannot see why. So, some townie votes are just playing naïve or under shallow reasoning, and the bad guys take advantage of the situation, to guarantee a pro-town lynch,

Sadly, I’m in the worst position so far, with a lot of scummy votes which want me dead.

I would like to make the case that get me most scummy of all. Even if is useless, since it seems really unlikely another lynch than myself today
Strike wolf have been a strong case all along the game. So far its scummtells are the following:

• Been defensive when people talk about generic scummy partner. Shows guilty, classical scumtell

I have stated alreayd honest mistake. I've been watching commander accuse all my actions of being scummy and now and then directly implying me being scummy yet putting in that I'm probably town it sounded like bs and I looked into it and felt I found a case. So yeah when he talked about a "scum partner" I had mistakenly assumed.

• Joining to my bandwagon pretty shameless for a unclear reasons. Reveals a strategic vote to get an easy lynch on day 1

people seem to forget I had shown interest long before I switched my vote to you, before you became the major bandwagon.

• In general, from the beginning of the day, just saying things not really involved in any argument, hoping it works later.

that's bs. I have been involved in discussions. I've discussed in more detail what has struck me as interesting but I have commented at least once on most discussions.

[strike wolf]

To commander:

unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.

? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?

FOS edocsil for skimming. It really makes me tired that for every post I have to write two more posts explaining what I said in the original one. Read carefully what I have written and you will see that I claim nothing of the sort.

this is where mandy denies knowing victor's alignment.

unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.

? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?

FOS edocsil for skimming. It really makes me tired that for every post I have to write two more posts explaining what I said in the original one. Read carefully what I have written and you will see that I claim nothing of the sort.

I bolded it for you. I obviously get it now, but you have two conflicting statements there.

huh? It might be that we Eastern Europeans are fucked up or something but it seems perfectly clear to me. He's saying he thinks that's Commander's strategy, he obviously doesn't know if Sully's town, but that's the assumption we make, right? Everyone's town untill they act scummy.

This is where haggis briefly explains that the theory doesn't say anything about knowing victor's alignment.

unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.

Very interesting that you already know that Sully is town - would you mind pointing out how? Also, would you point where I said that Sully is town? I've pointed that the BW on him doesn't make sense and that some people on it are likely to be scum.

FoS for misusing logic and trying to divert attention.

EDIT: Haggis, I'm from Eastern Europe too and I think that this logic is false.

This is where you acknowledging acknowledging haggis' post while attacking mandy based on something that's already disproven.

My point was more or less, that it seemed like Victor just posted his typical "oh sorry, i've been away, will catch up soon."

I was hoping to get two posts from him by this point. To me it looks like just a simple post, that will be the last one we get for a week, then he will come back and make another simple post that has nothing to do with any of the topics at hand.

*Peeks out from behind a bush* Hey, guys! Sorry, was finishing up Dispatch business. Anywho, this may come a bit shocking, but I find that strike wolf seems to be the most subtly shady character of the bunch. He voted for me - fine, I get it, I was lacking in my posting. The recent comments I find most disturbing - saying that no one on my bandwagon was scummy while he himself was on the bandwagon, just seems like a way to say he's innocent with out outright saying it. In addition, this could be an effort to protect people of his faction (I say faction, as the description of the game indicated multiple win conditions). Also, targeting people who've defended me may be an indirect attempt at hindering me, and it could have been his actual intention to lynch me. Anywho, I feel like what I've explained doesn't entirely communicate my reasons for targeting him, but hopefully you understand. In conclusion, unvote vote strike wolf.

This is where victor votes me based on false information. I did not have a vote on anyone at the time however I had stated my main person of interest as someone on the bandwagon and while I had made side cvomments about it being interesting how there was a jump to his defense I also had said it wasn't completely out of character. It's misinformation which you've stated being against but your only reaction:

ebwop Not going after the people who defended you.

To be fair, if you had done, that would've been rather scummy and quite likely earnt a quick BW on you. You're a better player than that.

This is your only response far less biting than to mandy's far-fetched case. He didn't say anything about it only made a semi-vague comment regarding how I might act if I was scum.

[strike wolf]

I think we need a replacement for Mass Miracle.

[Commander9]

To Strike:

1. How convenient of you not to mentioned the timing. By the time that I posted, the only one who have posted were Mandy and Edoc and while Edoc said a lot of similar things to me, Mandy shut him down. Then Haggis posted like a minute before me, so our posts are NOT related.

2. Seriously, re-read my defence for Vic. I've just said that the wagon was scummy, because we can replace rather than lynch. Can you stop putting him into all of this?

3. How does that comment of mine tie into all of this? I've just pointed that you're not a newbie scummy, so you most likely will not make basic mistakes.

[strike wolf]

To Strike:

1. How convenient of you not to mentioned the timing. By the time that I posted, the only one who have posted were Mandy and Edoc and while Edoc said a lot of similar things to me, Mandy shut him down. Then Haggis posted like a minute before me, so our posts are NOT related.

2. Seriously, re-read my defence for Vic. I've just said that the wagon was scummy, because we can replace rather than lynch. Can you stop putting him into all of this?

3. How does that comment of mine tie into all of this? I've just pointed that you're not a newbie scummy, so you most likely will not make basic mistakes.

It ties into it because that was the only thing you mentioned that had anything to do with the victor post at the time and it was in exact contrast to how you approached mandy's vote on you, you say you want to point out misuse of logic but lying about a person's actions is the worst kind of misuse and you basically ignored it as for the timing issues, regardless of timing you took the time to note about what Haggis said. That means you saw the post you saw haggis clarify it and you already knew mandy had denied it earlier but you still decided to add in an inaccurate remark about what mandy was saying. I mentioned victor in that post not even so much to associate him with you in this case but to point out the discrepancy in attitude that you've displayed in this game.

[safariguy5]

I think we need a replacement for Mass Miracle.

Prodded him for the second time. Will replace if activity from him continues to be low.

[Commander9]

It ties into it because that was the only thing you mentioned that had anything to do with the victor post at the time and it was in exact contrast to how you approached mandy's vote on you, you say you want to point out misuse of logic but lying about a person's actions is the worst kind of misuse and you basically ignored it as for the timing issues, regardless of timing you took the time to note about what Haggis said. That means you saw the post you saw haggis clarify it and you already knew mandy had denied it earlier but you still decided to add in an inaccurate remark about what mandy was saying. I mentioned victor in that post not even so much to associate him with you in this case but to point out the discrepancy in attitude that you've displayed in this game.

Hilarious.

Well, of course it is different - one simply was not here and needed to be replaced and the other was trying to make a case with false data.
Lying about persons actions? WTF. Where did you come up with this? Please, enlighten me about my lies.
I can't believe I'm actually bothering to respond to this. My post was 2 minutes after Haggis and I wasn't going to delete the whole thing. Second of all, Mandy's post before that didn't change anything and that was the post I was respond to. It seems to me like you are trying to draw a straw here.
Read above.

[Mr. Squirrel]

4. To say the cases on commander were more compelling than the one, say, Falko for example (one liners, skimming, etc.) is ridiculous. Weak though that case might be, I can't see anything really worth saying about commander atm.
I'm going to unvote vote strike

I agree fullheartedly that falko is a good candidate. His attitude seems to be don't get involved discussions that don't involve me and vote prod inactives. It's something that I would expect from someone who's won condition is alternate to town and with his latest random vote on mandy who promised to post the next day in detail it doesn't really appear town oriented.

There were two votes toward falko before this post. Strike doesn't even address why he was so doggedly chasing commander. In fact, he doesn't even put in the effort to show any thought of his own toward the matter of falko. He merely agrees, offers nothing new, and goes along with the current town sentiment.

I still suspect commander but based on the wagon dying, deadline closing and increasing evidence against falko, falko is the better choice. unvote vote falko

He views his push against commander failed so he jumps on the next big BW. Strike just reeks of intelligent scum to me. I'm not saying there isn't a case against falko, but because there is already a strong group focusing on him, I wanted to point out strike's wrongs as well. unvote vote strike wolf

My case against commander has failed. It doesn't make sense me from any perspective to continue insisting on a wagon that wasn't productive with an upcoming deadline. What's there to really add to the falko wagon? We've discussed how vio and falko have defended each other despite falko's otherwise disinterest in discussion while merely pushing inactives who had already either been prodded and the fact he had already skimmed. There really wasn't much to add, it's been said. I offered my take on it and no it wasn't really different from others because there really wasn't anything that I saw that anyone had missed.

Regardless, your quick switch over to the next easy bandwagon is very scummy. You seem to be aggressively voting in this game, lending your vote to whatever bandwagon or easy lynch is forming. You can try to justify it all you want, but I will still call it scummy.

Commander-haven't found him that scummy, however the way in the really agressive way he tries to shut down discussion about him is somewhat scummy.

So you shouldn't defended and announce if someone is misusing logic and is trying to lynch you? I don't mind discussions, but that was just an attack blindfolded.

Commander, I think that was pretty unnecessary. I have read and re-read illiad's post, and he is not attacking you. He never stated that you shouldn't defend yourself and discuss more. Rather I think he was interested in you, for the same reason that I am. It seems as though you are holding in a lot of hostility.

I feel that myself, falko, and perhaps even strike have been voted due to some misunderstandings, but our defences have never reached the level of aggression that yours has. I understand you defending yourself, and being frustrated- but the more you post- the more I am finding something unnerving about it.

As aggressive as commander seems to be, the only reason I am not worried about it is because he is very consistent about it. Regardless of who lays the blame, he attacks everyone equally. I still don't understand the aggression, but it doesnt seem to me that he is scummier because of it.

Also, I think falko should be claiming here soon.

[Falkomagno]

Ok, I will claim. I'm William Turner, town swordsmith. I'm lover with Elizabeth Swann, which will die if I die. I let you to determine who is Elizabeth, even if is pretty obvious. I can make swords, which have 2 actions.

So, let your heart decide then.

[Commander9]

Ok, I will claim. I'm William Turner, town swordsmith. I'm lover with Elizabeth Swann, which will die if I die. I let you to determine who is Elizabeth, even if is pretty obvious. I can make swords, which have 2 actions.

So, let your heart decide then.

I'm pretty sure this is a true claim. Unless someone will counterclaim, I'd recommend the doctor protecting both him and Elizabeth (I think it's rather obvious who has this role). If we want to lynch someone, we better hurry. I'd strongly advise to go with Mandy, but I'd be fine with Strike or one of the scummariners (Victor).

[Fircoal]

Ok, I will claim. I'm William Turner, town swordsmith. I'm lover with Elizabeth Swann, which will die if I die. I let you to determine who is Elizabeth, even if is pretty obvious. I can make swords, which have 2 actions.

So, let your heart decide then.

Does that mean that you let people do another one of their actions, or the swords have an action in themselves?

[strike wolf]

First of all unvote. Though likr fir id like some elaboration if you don't think it will hurt. I think he controls the action but can't tell for sure from that post.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of repeating myself with people apparently overlooking what I've said, so don't expect me to repeat what I'm saying in this paragraph. @squirrel: I had been interested in falko long before I voted him. A quick read through the thread will show I made several comments on him and found him highly suspicious. I changed my vote on him because A. I couldn't convince people about commander and with deadline cvlosing in I was hurting town more than helping town by sticking with a vote that I did not feel would produce enough information beyond what it already had to be of use to town. B. Deadline was closing in, town needed a legitimate wagon with enough time to back off and make th next move. C. I was already suspicious of falko enough to vote him.

Third, commander the comment about false information was aimed at what victor did. The part about your response had nothing to do with any defense or attack on victor for inactivity it had to do with your lack of response to him posting false information despite how aggressively you've gone after others for similar reasons.

[pancakemix]

That claim is pretty ballsy if it's false. I'm inclined to believe it unless someone has a counterclaim. But I'm with Chu, I'd like some clarification on the nature of these swords.

[Commander9]

Third, commander the comment about false information was aimed at what victor did. The part about your response had nothing to do with any defense or attack on victor for inactivity it had to do with your lack of response to him posting false information despite how aggressively you've gone after others for similar reasons.

To be fair, while his post was a perfect example of a great post, it's not quite as horrible as you make it out to be. What's more, as far as Victor goes, it's better than his usual posts and I actually believed he'd come to be more active and posting in this game (Kind of like Briarsburg), but as we can all see now, these were false hopes. None the less, while I'd be perfectly with pressuring him (as he'd not contributing one bit and won't be replaced probably), I'm also much more suspicious the way you and Mandy have acted today.

[freezie]

Well...yea..Unvote

I don't think you would go really far with that claim if it was fake. So I am inclined to say it's true.

I think I'Ll go with the second best choice I had in mind then..Vote: Mandy

Wasn't as heratic as Falko was, and I may not have said a word yet on him..but never too late for that

[Falkomagno]

The sword grants 50% of protection as bulletproof, and 50% of chance for a night kill, once. With this, I think that i will be pretty vulnerable for a mafia kill.

what we should do? I'm sure mafia votes in my bandwagon will argue after my lynch that they just didn't were round before the deadline. So I think is responsibility for the active players so far to have an adequate lynch. I will gladly lean my vote for Edocil or Striker, as I just read their post isolate, and their shameless opportunism in the bandwagons seems very hard to defend. No surprise if both of them doesn't show up until the next day.

[edocsil]

Ok, I will claim. I'm William Turner, town swordsmith. I'm lover with Elizabeth Swann, which will die if I die. I let you to determine who is Elizabeth, even if is pretty obvious. I can make swords, which have 2 actions.

So, let your heart decide then.

Does that mean that you let people do another one of their actions, or the swords have an action in themselves?

I assume it is like a gunsmith, gives someone a single NK. Could be perm, but that would be quite overpowered. We have 2 days, if I thought we could reasonably sort out the benefits and costs of lynching mandy in that short a timeframe I would pursue that lead, but that is something that would take more then 2 days to do properly.

[strike wolf]

I am of the opinion that a lynch might be rushed. I do not want to vote for a no lynch but with one claimed townie w/ a semi-claimed lover and under 2 days to come to a lynch (can you confirm a specific time of day safari?) I'm a bit hesitant to start a wagon.