FYI bigbad 4573

[L M S]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

[Woodruff]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

If the position wasn't yours, are you sure it wasn't misinformation?

[L M S]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

If the position wasn't yours, are you sure it wasn't misinformation?

C'mon Woody, give me a little more credit than that.
Of course the position was mine. Here is the exact quote:

2011-01-26 16:44:37 - bigbad 4573: green is trying to run away with the train and take the game
2011-01-26 16:44:48 - bigbad 4573: fyi

[safariguy5]

Eh, not a completely terrible tactic. Dishonorable but not dirty.

[L M S]

Eh, not a completely terrible tactic. Dishonorable but not dirty.

Agreed Safari.

[Army of GOD]

inb4 lock


Wait, I'm going to get banned for this comment, aren't I?

[Woodruff]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

If the position wasn't yours, are you sure it wasn't misinformation?

C'mon Woody, give me a little more credit than that.
Of course the position was mine.

No, I meant it as a serious question. I have provided misinformation in games before and had players who weren't involved but who presumed I was giving away information throw total shitfits about it.

[L M S]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

If the position wasn't yours, are you sure it wasn't misinformation?

C'mon Woody, give me a little more credit than that.
Of course the position was mine.

No, I meant it as a serious question. I have provided misinformation in games before and had players who weren't involved but who presumed I was giving away information throw total shitfits about it.

This is not the situation.

[MNDuke]

Game 8342618

2011-01-26 15:50:15 - Ukey: Say, for example, that I had a 66% chance of finding a neutral castle?
2011-01-26 15:51:29 - Ukey: I sure hope nobody figures out which 2 southeastern castles you're talking about.

I agree, it is a total douche move.

[Arama86n]

So, let's say L M S, MNDuke myself and a few more people were in an 8player flatrate foggy on Napoleonic Europe. I'm holding 5 capitals and one of you realises it but can't stop me. You would under no circumstances mention it/ try to make others aware of it or try to rally support to stop me. because it's a fog game that according to you is unacceptable and I'd simply be allowed to win the game?

I'm not saying supporting either side of the argument so to speak, I'm just a little surprised that you two seem to be very firmly of the opinion that it's unacceptable. Personally I see it as a case by case basis. I've been in fog games where people have started using diplomacy, talking about who is likely to be strongest, needed to be stopped etc, without revealing exact positions. I've been in fog games on NapEU where the capitals were discussed rather freely in an attempt to stop someone stealing the game so to speak. In all such situations it has just been a natural evolution of the game, and no one has been outraged or thought anything wrong.

You won't find me beginning such in game discussions, but if others do I have no problem with it, and will get involved to tend to my own interests, using diplomacy, and a tad of misinformation if the situation calls for it. On maps where there are objectives I wouldn't think it too uncommon with such discussions.

[L M S]

Game 8356834

Here's the game number this post is about to put things into context for ya'll. One of the humorous parts to this situation is that we just finished a game where bigbad won using the exact same tactic after he had requested a truce from me. Look, the fog is the fog, if you wanna go around revealing positions thats your business. As stated, its not illegal, just a douchy thing to do. Which is all this thread is about and why I didn't post the game number in the OP.

[JBlombier]

In this game particularly, I see nothing wrong about it. You won the game, so surely you were winning at the time he wrote that comment. Why is it shitty? He's trying to win, right? He can break truces and tell all the information he has, without breaking any rules. That doesn't make it douchy in my book, it makes him smart, 'cause he wants to win. And he tries to win, without cheating. Your strategy will prevail, at least it should. Especially in Escalating, I don't think it's such a big deal, as long as you don't tell all territories (which I never saw happening: revealing all territories of a person). And guess what, your strategy did prevail! So pat yourself on the back and move on, instead of foe and move on.

It's just like all the freestylers tend to say: If you don't like how the settings can turn out, don't play them.

[SirSebstar]

All is fair in Love and War ( as long as it is within the rules)

[L M S]

In this game particularly, I see nothing wrong about it. You won the game, so surely you were winning at the time he wrote that comment. Why is it shitty? He's trying to win, right? He can break truces and tell all the information he has, without breaking any rules. That doesn't make it douchy in my book, it makes him smart, 'cause he wants to win. And he tries to win, without cheating. Your strategy will prevail, at least it should. Especially in Escalating, I don't think it's such a big deal, as long as you don't tell all territories (which I never saw happening: revealing all territories of a person). And guess what, your strategy did prevail! So pat yourself on the back and move on, instead of foe and move on.

It's just like all the freestylers tend to say: If you don't like how the settings can turn out, don't play them.

Its all fine. BTW, I wasn't winning when he posted it, esc spoils did it. Regardless.....still douchy.

[MNDuke]

Yeah, but what about when you are playing a map like feudal or feudal epic and you take a player out and then they out which castles you were in? That's pretty fucking foul.

[Woodruff]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

If the position wasn't yours, are you sure it wasn't misinformation?

C'mon Woody, give me a little more credit than that.
Of course the position was mine.

No, I meant it as a serious question. I have provided misinformation in games before and had players who weren't involved but who presumed I was giving away information throw total shitfits about it.

This is not the situation.

I understand that now, but at the time I asked the question, that was not necessarily obvious...which is why I asked the question in the way that I did.

Yeah, but what about when you are playing a map like feudal or feudal epic and you take a player out and then they out which castles you were in? That's pretty fucking foul.

Certainly, a retaliatory move like that is pretty disgusting. That's a pretty clear case in my mind.

[Fircoal]

The case in this thread is really imo just a case of trying to win. I don't think there is any thing wrong or douchy about it. Yes it does in some ways make wonder why they're playing fog in the first place but it's perfectly finezel.

Yeah, but what about when you are playing a map like feudal or feudal epic and you take a player out and then they out which castles you were in? That's pretty fucking foul.

That is being a douche.

[L M S]

So what I am reading here is that in this case its NOT douchy but in other cases this EXACT thing IS douchy.
huh?

[SirSebstar]

So what I am reading here is that in this case its NOT douchy but in other cases this EXACT thing IS douchy.
huh?

What you are reading is the one player things it not douchy to play that way, but that choosing fog might not be appropriate.

[Woodruff]

So what I am reading here is that in this case its NOT douchy but in other cases this EXACT thing IS douchy.
huh?

Exact thing? Your description of events is not even close to what MNDuke described (which folks have said is wrong). It's a matter of situation.

[Fircoal]

So what I am reading here is that in this case its NOT douchy but in other cases this EXACT thing IS douchy.
huh?

In your case, the player who leaked information was alive, in the other case the player that leaked information was dead. That is the dividing line.

[jimboston]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

Wah!

I am taking my ball and going home.

Revealing positions in a FOW game is no more dirty than making a treaty.

If you have a treaty doesn't it makes sense to share information??? So revealing positions in FOW is just like Treaty Light. Though of course there's always potential for mis-information.

[MNDuke]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

Wah!

I am taking my ball and going home.

Revealing positions in a FOW game is no more dirty than making a treaty.

If you have a treaty doesn't it makes sense to share information??? So revealing positions in FOW is just like Treaty Light. Though of course there's always potential for mis-information.

FOED for using irrational logic and being in sales.

[jimboston]

Yeah, but what about when you are playing a map like feudal or feudal epic and you take a player out and then they out which castles you were in? That's pretty fucking foul.

I agree... That is being a douche.

[jimboston]

bigbad 4573 likes to reveal your positions in foggy games to other players in chat, not illegal but still a shitty thing to in an otherwise largely honorable game.
Do what you will with this information.
famo.

Wah!

I am taking my ball and going home.

Revealing positions in a FOW game is no more dirty than making a treaty.

If you have a treaty doesn't it makes sense to share information??? So revealing positions in FOW is just like Treaty Light. Though of course there's always potential for mis-information.

FOED for using irrational logic and being in sales.

This however is being a baby.