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Another dice thread.

Postby Dmunster on Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:15 pm

/ranton/I thought the attacker was supposed to have a slight advantage attacking 3-2. I really dont see this as truth in gameplay. Especially 3-1... I literally cringe when I have to attack a single. It almost always takes one or two attacks to defeat them. A single always seems to roll a six on my first attack. It is supposed to be an 11% chance for a single to beat 3 but I can ensure you that I dont win those rolls 89% of the time./rantoff/

I'm sure you guys get sick of these threads but, seriously, this seems to be a bug or something...
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Postby rluzinski on Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:26 pm

You'll only win about a third of the 3-2 battles if you are the attacker. You will win 3 vs. 1, 75% of the time. You just remember the instances where you get screwed more. It's human nature. Nothing more.
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Postby tahitiwahini on Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:07 pm

The actual attacker win percentages for the attacks given are:

3v2 - 37.17%
3v1 - 65.97%

His point is right about human nature. It's the perennial problem with the dice complaints. They are based on anecdotal rather than systematic gathering of data. The closest thing we have to systematic collection of the dice data is the Dice Analyzer.

For example, the Dice Analyzer shows my actual results are:

3v2 - 37.45% (0.26% better than expected)
3v1 - 64.11% (1.86% worse than expected)

based on 1421 dice throws.

Seems like the actual are reasonably close to the expected results.

To my knowledge no one has ever posted results from the Dice Analyzer that were wildly out of whack. It collects statistics for every dice thrown in your games every time you attack.
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Postby Spockers on Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:15 pm

The dice are fair. Stop whinging.
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Postby wacicha on Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:17 pm

I love the dice, They rarely let me down!!!
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Postby CivProBlows on Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:09 pm

I think the defender is supposed to have the advantage, because all ties goes to him. However, lately I've been getting screwed on either side. Here is a good example: I was playing a real-time game last night and had 42 men on Siam and all of Oceania. George attacks me with 41 men and takes me out of the game. Now for the kicker: When he finished me off, he had 25 men left!!!
"War is an art and as such is not susceptible of explanation by fixed formula." - General George Patton
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Postby tahitiwahini on Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:40 pm

CivProBlows wrote:I think the defender is supposed to have the advantage, because all ties goes to him.


As you say, ties between individual dice comparisons are resolved in favor of the defender.

But, the attacker always has the advantage in an attack if he gets to throw more dice than the defender. The attacker gets to throw one fewer dice than he has attacking armies up to a maximum of three dice, while a defender gets to throw one dice for each defending army up to a maximum of two.

So for example, the attacker in a 10v20 attack ends up having the advantage in each individual attack because the attacker is throwing three dice, while the defender is only throwing two dice (this situation holds as long as the attacker has more than three armies and the defender has at least two armies). The attacker is approximately 8% less likely as the defender to lose two armies.

If the attacker has an 8% advantage in each individual attack why don't the odds favor the ultimate success of the attacker over a whole series of attacks? Why does the attacker only stand a 5% chance of conquering the country in a 10v20 attack? Because when the attacker throws three dice and the defender throws two dice, there is a 35% chance that both the attacker and the defender will each lose a single army in an attack.

When you are attacking 10v20, you can ill afford to lose a single army even if the defender loses a single army too in the same attack. This is because you will reach your stopping point of one army quicker than the defender will reach his stopping point of zero armies, because you start out at 10 while the defender starts out at 20.

When you attack 10v20 and the result is that both the attacker and defender lose a single army, ostensibly the attack was a tie. But that one army represents an 11% loss of your total armies, whereas it only represents a 5% loss of the defender's armies.
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Postby Dmunster on Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:23 am

I HATE math so, and i'm sure its poseted somewhere, but could you Tahiti post your formulations for these percentages? I wish I wasnt playing mainly from my work Laptop or I would get this dice analyzer.
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Postby tahitiwahini on Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:51 am

Dmunster wrote:I HATE math so, and i'm sure its poseted somewhere, but could you Tahiti post your formulations for these percentages? I wish I wasnt playing mainly from my work Laptop or I would get this dice analyzer.


The percentages mostly come from the Dice Analyzer.

Here's a thread where people have posted their Dice Analyzer screen shots:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=258115

Or from one of the battle odds calculators mentioned here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14488

An article on the odds in Risk:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14487

Another discussion about probabilities applied to the game strategy and tactics:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14543

I hope this helps.
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