WWII OPERATION MARKET GARDEN(ABANDONED)

by **Guiscard** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:17 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Qwert I am giving you this advice and I hope that you listen to me for once.

You need to calm down mate. Just go to sleep. Take a break from the foundry for a few days. Maybe finish your maps in the future or if you prefer never finish them.

However I feel that you cannot handle things right at the moment. You are angry and feel offended and in turn are offending other foundry members who do not deserve this kind of treatment. Do not post when you are angry because nothing good will come out of it. Always think and act in a rational way in life.

Listen to me for once and do not take this too personal. After all it is just a game. A map for a game. There is more to life than creating these maps or feeling accepted by the foundry community.

by **Qwert** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:20 pm

Ruben maybe you right, i loosing my time and patiente to create map, and people asking some minor things, you right maybe its better to do something else then making map in CC.

by **mibi** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:24 pm

Guiscard wrote:
mibi wrote:qwert i think you should stop asking for peoples opinions.

As a graphic designer by profession, and a member of numerous design forums, I have never seen a place so wrapped up in the design-by-committee ethos. It is very frustrating for the designer and apparently, often the maps end up in some bureaucratic black hole.

chances are i wont be finishing my current map nor making new ones due to the fact that everyone here has qualified themselves as an designer in residence.

classic example of 'those that cannot do, teach' only replace 'teach' with 'bitch' or 'nitpick'.

I suggest you use your skills on a more appreciative community.

Sorry, I'm gonna call you out on this one...

Surely the 'design by committee' is important as these maps are gonna be used by the whole site! The designer still has the authority to make changes if he can argue for them properly. Most of us on this site are not graphic designers I'm afraid, and we need that constructive criticism both to make a map with good playability and to avoid just making what we think is great but everyone will hate once it is up for play (see the circus maximus map, for example, or the middle east - both were put up before the current foundry 'standard' was eveloped, as it were).

I don't know whether you've read Qwert's threads but the changes he objected to were not huge big deals but little things which would just make the map look more professional. Moving a few titles away from borders so they didn't touch. As a graphic designer surely you should realise that you would never present a job to a client which had minor flaws, so why should these maps be the same? many many maps get quenched, we've had two this month in fact, and I'm sure yours will too as its shaping up to be a great map in my opinion.

The only maps that have ended up in this 'black hole' you describe have been Qwerts. Others have started maps then given up or have had to bow out due to copyright, but only Qwert has had to stop because he isn't mature enough to take constructive criticsm and wants his map quenched as soon as he thinks it is ready. If the system worked like that we'd have twenty maps a month or more, and they'd all be shit!

And it really isn't a case of those who cannot do, bitch'. Most of the people commenting have either made really high quality maps already themselves (e.g. Keyogi, Oaktown...) or are in the process of making them (e.g. Me, Ruben...). We all know what it takes to get a map made in this forum, and should Qwert.

honestly, i havent seen qwerts maps, well actually i saw them briefly before the images were gone. i have no problems with people suggesting gameplay fixes but when it comes to design there should be limits. with my map, i've already expened my patience for each person who wants the texture on the territories to look exactly like it does in the dream they had last night. And considering the number of hideous maps on CC currently, its more than a bit irritating. As a designer i would never send work to a client with minor flaws, you are correct. But clients also pay, and CC does not, thus the designer is doing 'work' for the love of the community or some other selfless reason. The CC doesn't seem to understand this. It seems there are many who think designers just wave a magic wand and whatever is in there mind is suddenly on the screen.

This isn't a problem with those mapmakers less skilled with design. Which may be why all the maps in the forge are standard geography maps. CC is not ready for anything approaching realism. Perhaps if i took out all the detail I could get my map into the forge.

by **Guiscard** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:33 pm

There really isn't anything wrong with your map at the moment visually, in fact I'd say it's been taken pretty well. Some people disagree with the 'concept' of a top down view, but that is where you are able to use your judgement as a map-maker.

You'll get it to final forge as an attractive map, just look at Australia or Chinese checkers... NOT all geography maps... Chinese Checkers and King of the Mountains have both been quenched this week - not geographical at all.

And I've been following your map and there really haven't been loads of requests for you to change textures. If that's all the patience you have you should probably give up now...

Its a long process but it does result in only visually nice, playable maps being quenched...

by **Gozar** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Guiscard is right, although I should probably be saying this in your thread, mibi.

Your map is looking great, and yes some people are picking, but that is part of the process. Just remember, not everyone will be happy with everything! Keep making adjustments and your map will get more and more interest.

Gozar

by **antjo** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:04 pm

if we want result,
we should support quert in a more positive way
he can do nice things, but he obviously get discouraged
we must encourage him
NOONE EVER SHOULD BE DISCOURAGEED
that doesnt lead to anything

by **Unit_2** on Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:44 pm

dude.... stop making maps!!!.... if you can't see you need to work on the very first one, then the second one and then this one. do one at a time... :roll:

by **Qwert** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:53 am

honestly, i havent seen qwerts maps, well actually i saw them briefly before the images were gone. i have no problems with people suggesting gameplay fixes but when it comes to design there should be limits. with my map, i've already expened my patience for each person who wants the texture on the territories to look exactly like it does in the dream they had last night. And considering the number of hideous maps on CC currently, its more than a bit irritating. As a designer i would never send work to a client with minor flaws, you are correct. But clients also pay, and CC does not, thus the designer is doing 'work' for the love of the community or some other selfless reason. The CC doesn't seem to understand this. It seems there are many who think designers just wave a magic wand and whatever is in there mind is suddenly on the screen.

This isn't a problem with those mapmakers less skilled with design. Which may be why all the maps in the forge are standard geography maps. CC is not ready for anything approaching realism. Perhaps if i took out all the detail I could get my map into the forge.

I dont mine if playabiliti want to change, but visual, people must have some request limit, these no point to change something what i dont like, and delete something what i like.

dude.... stop making maps!!!.... if you can't see you need to work on the very first one, then the second one and then this one. do one at a time...

I want but Andy refuse to dellete all my topic.

by **KEYOGI** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:23 am

qwert wrote:I dont mine if playabiliti want to change, but visual, people must have some request limit, these no point to change something what i dont like, and delete something what i like.

This is a major part of making a map though, you need to compromise what you like to benefit the community and the map in general. If this wasn't the case, most maps would be quenched in a day or two because cartographers could just say "I like it my way."

by **oaktown** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:04 am

this makes this, what, the third map of this region in the foundry?

by **Wisse** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:47 pm

great idea! i hope it will be a good one

and just stop killing qwert, he is doing things his way, can he?

by **boberz** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:01 pm

i agree the cartographer should have some say in matters especially if it is minor or a close decision but ultimately if the foundry think one thing in a majority then it should be agreed and in this case very few people wish to see qwert fail another map

by **bedplay** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:09 pm

mibi wrote:honestly, i havent seen qwerts maps, well actually i saw them briefly before the images were gone. i have no problems with people suggesting gameplay fixes but when it comes to design there should be limits. with my map, i've already expened my patience for each person who wants the texture on the territories to look exactly like it does in the dream they had last night. And considering the number of hideous maps on CC currently, its more than a bit irritating. As a designer i would never send work to a client with minor flaws, you are correct. But clients also pay, and CC does not, thus the designer is doing 'work' for the love of the community or some other selfless reason. The CC doesn't seem to understand this. It seems there are many who think designers just wave a magic wand and whatever is in there mind is suddenly on the screen.

This isn't a problem with those mapmakers less skilled with design. Which may be why all the maps in the forge are standard geography maps. CC is not ready for anything approaching realism. Perhaps if i took out all the detail I could get my map into the forge.

1. This "work" for th community, still has to benefit the comunity, if everyone was allowed to put their "work" up on CC, the site would be littered with crap maps (tbh, it needs to be cleaned up from the pre-foundry days.)

2. The map you have currently put up, does not really do much for me if you say you are a graphic designer, a friend of mine (he's 16) could do and has done better jobs than that in his free time (I'm not saying you are a bad designer, but just the work you have is not upto foundry standard.)

3. If you really don't want to go through with all the changes, either argue them properly or don't make maps, Keyogi (best Cartographer on this site imo) doesn't quibble about thing he just does them.

4. If you had read the endless pages of arguments, qwert has argued childishly about things that almost everyone has complained about, (Plus non centred numbers) which is totally unacceptable for a foundry quality map.

by **Qwert** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 pm

Keyogi (best Cartographer on this site imo

Wauuu, i think that in CC have best authors from Keyogi, hes map Australia not something what jump high from others map, and hes Conquer map(second) its something very simple for create(these nothing complicate in these map for work) and if you think that hes a best author on CC,then you wrong.
For me best author in whole CC its WidoW Maker, he create best visual maps.

1. This "work" for th community, still has to benefit the comunity, if everyone was allowed to put their "work" up on CC, the site would be littered with crap maps (tbh, it needs to be cleaned up from the pre-foundry days.)

Ok now you want to say that my maps its a crap. That 1 of my reason to andy delete my topic, every time i read that you say Crap,Moron, Stupid, insted these time for you spend in writing these word, spend to work in yours map.

by **MarVal** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:27 pm

I agree with all the people who think that you first finish you're previous maps. And you wrote to Andy, that he must delete all your Topics........ is that INCLUDED this ONE??????? lol

BY THE WAY, There are already two maps of that area:

THE NETHERLANDS

BENELUX

[Final Forge]

So whats you're motive to make maps and not finish them?
I've a lot in my mind about that question, but wisely I will not put it in here.

Grtz
Marval

by **Qwert** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:40 pm

Yes all tree

My map Eastern Front been before these map in FinalForge, so what.
You read what im wrote previosly and maybe you understand.
Thank you for not put insulting words in these topic.