the war in Iraq

[unriggable]

Hate to break it to you, but you have your facts wrong

1) The invasion is not illegal, as the bill was passed by congress and is perfectly legal.

Congress never declared a state of war.

2) If the war is imperialistic, why hasn't America made any imperialistic political maneuvers in Iraq?

You mean like make a huge contract with Halliburton?

Also, how can you have sympathy for terror cells whose stated objectives are:

The Destruction of the Jewish race

No Rights for Woman

The destruction of Democracy

Making everyone under their control convert to Islam

Basically these guys are the Nazis, just with less power

Most aren't terror cells, they are villagers, only with guns. And by the way, when President bush declares the war as a crusade against evil, I'm pretty sure they are not the only ones trying to 'convert'. They aren't against democracy,if you're looking for that there's enough in the 2000 supreme court line up. Can't say much about the destruction of the jewish race, but Israel is kind of a bitch to the Arabic nations.
And calling them nazis is bullshit on a stick. The only bullshit more intense is when bill o'reilly said "I don't ever want to hear the words sunni and shi'ite again".

[heavycola]

The Americans had no right to enter the country in the first place. Weapons of mass distruction my ass!!! They just wanted OIL!!! Oh and the weapons they do have were actually given to them by the Americans a ways back. I'm NOT for the war, however I wouldnt pull out now until they've cleaned up the mess they've made.

Ok, first off the whole "This war is about oil" rhetoric is old and incorrect. The reason we're over there is because Bush has some kind of Texas vendetta and just wanted to invade. There is no conspiracy around it, Bush sent us in there because he wanted to finish the job his father half-assed.

The oil is about to run out. Google 'peak oil' - some people think it has already happened.

Just a vendetta? I mean hell, even bush is more accountable than that. Why, out of the destructive, oppressive regimes in the world - Zimbabwe, North Korea etc - would you choose Iraq and make shit up as a casus belli? Oil, oil, oil... Global demand is going to outgrow supply very soon. China is getting thirstier than the west... the war in iraq was part of a resources grab, is all. America was looking after her interests.

[unriggable]

including this one

and another thing. if we hadnt invaded and saddam had killed another thousand kurds eveyrone would say oh the US should do something. but we head out to iraq and what happens? the US is bad cause they invaded a country ruled by a dictator who suppressed peoples rights tortured them and masscred them.

We shouldn't invade until the UN gives a green light to us to do so. Also, seeing how you say Saddam tortured his people, have you heard of guatanamo bay?

in ten years when iraq is a stable democracy people will blame it on how awsome the iraqis are for doing it to spite the american invasion but its because of the american invasion that they have some semblance of democracy now.

When? Fat chance. The US will pull out and another country will invade Iraq. None of this bullshit would happen if we didn't go in in the first place. And I'm pretty sure a 74% unemployement rate isnt democracy. My teacher, who went to Iraq, told me that some people were too scared to step outside, does that sound like democracy? No, it doesn't. It sounds suspiciously like blacks in the south in the 1870's.

even if it was for oil and we never find WMDs then it will still be worth it when an iraqi women takes her children to school, or a kurd has a conversation about politics with a shia and a sunniw without dying.

besides with gps saddam could have buried everything he had in the desert where no one will find it.

Women could take children to school before, and a liberal can't have a conversation with a conservative in the US with either getting into a fistfight or having ronaldinho come in and piss everybody off with his OMG I PWN THE FL4M3 F0RuM L0L.

And if he buried his nukes in the desert, we wouldn't be able to USE THEM, which would be counterproductive.

[jay_a2j]

without being fully sanctioned by the UN.

And never will be. The UN is comprised of nations who are mainly anti-Israel. So any act of war with any Arab nation will be frowned upon by the UN. The US should not ever be "governed" by any group of nations.

Although I have gone back and forth on this issue..... I say we go "all out" in Iraq or get out. We are fighting a politically correct war in Iraq (much like we did in Nam) and you can't win that kind of war.

[Bertros Bertros]

without being fully sanctioned by the UN.

And never will be. The UN is comprised of nations who are mainly anti-Israel. So any act of war with any Arab nation will be frowned upon by the UN. The US should not ever be "governed" by any group of nations.

Or perhaps it would never be sanctioned by the UN because the majority of the 192 member states don't think its justified rather than any bias, perceived or otherwise, against Israel.

As for the laughable comment about being governed by a group of nations its worth remembering the UN charter was drawn up in San Francisco and was ratified by the US who has been a permanent member of the security council since its inception. Why should the US get to pick and choose when to tow the line?

The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.

So not about governing member states but about cooperation, friendly relations, international peace, harmonizing the actions of nations... A far cry from a unilateral, pre-emptive and widely condemned war even you must agree, Jay?

EDIT: Feel free to replace US with UK in any of the above for as much as it shames me my country is equally guilty in this instance...

[jay_a2j]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

[parno4u]

GO JAY make them wish that they never messed with the USA.

[Bertros Bertros]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

I refer you to the multitude of others who have already pointed out that it wasn't Saddam, or even his buddies, who committed the terrorist attacks on 9/11. But I guess any old eye for an eye will do....

[jay_a2j]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

I refer you to the multitude of others who have already pointed out that it wasn't Saddam, or even his buddies, who committed the terrorist attacks on 9/11. But I guess any old eye for an eye will do....

WAR ON TERROR. Terrorists are in IRAQ. 1+1 always equals 2, no matter how much you scream it equals 3.

[mandalorian2298]

are you for or against the war in Iraq.

To answer your question: I am against the illegal US imperialistic invasion and I have sympathy for the Iraqi resistors - though I do not approve of the targeting of civilans in any war.

Hate to break it to you, but you have your facts wrong

1) The invasion is not illegal, as the bill was passed by congress and is perfectly legal.

2) If the war is imperialistic, why hasn't America made any imperialistic political maneuvers in Iraq?

1. So if Hamas passes a bill in the Palestinian parlament to launch terrorist attacks on Izrael and USA those actions would be "perfectlly legal"?

2. Sure it's not. Why look at how much money IRAQUI oil companies are making

[Jolly Roger]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

Speaking of fanatical nut jobs, you seem to be flirting with lunacy yourself.

Please answer this question:

There are guys like you who wave the Bible and US Constitution in the air and call for all sorts of death and destruction in the Middle East (see quote above). On the other hand, you've got a separate group of guys in the Middle East who wave the Koran in the air and call for all sorts of death and destruction in America. What's the difference?

[jay_a2j]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

Speaking of fanatical nut jobs, you seem to be flirting with lunacy yourself.

Please answer this question:

There are guys like you who wave the Bible and US Constitution in the air and call for all sorts of death and destruction in the Middle East (see quote above). On the other hand, you've got a separate group of guys in the Middle East who wave the Koran in the air and call for all sorts of death and destruction in America. What's the difference?

One book was authored by God and the other wasn't.

[Jolly Roger]

Sorry - let me clarify. I wasn't asking for the difference between the books. I was asking what the difference is between those two sets of guys. My contention is that they are two sides of the same coin. Would you agree? If not, why not?

[jay_a2j]

Sorry - let me clarify. I wasn't asking for the difference between the books. I was asking what the difference is between those two sets of guys. My contention is that they are two sides of the same coin. Would you agree? If not, why not?

Actually it is not Gods desire for any nation to war with another nation. But rather for all people to serve Him. War is the result of man being outside the will of God. In essence my previous post may not coincide with Gods will. Its the human nature in me that permits me to "get angry" at these terrorists. The Bible actually says, "To love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you". However true.... it makes for a dull debate.

[mandalorian2298]

WAR ON TERROR. Terrorists are in IRAQ. 1+1 always equals 2, no matter how much you scream it equals 3.

There certainly are terrorists in Iraq. Are you guys planing to ship them back to USA anytime soon, so that the Iraqui people can have some peace, at last?

[Guiscard]

One book was authored by God and the other wasn't.

Funny... thats what they're saying as well...

[unriggable]

One book was authored by God and the other wasn't.

Oh so its unreasonable to bomb buildings in the US in the name of god but it's okay to bomg buildings in Baghdad in the name of freedom (God's gift).

[Backglass]

GO JAY make them wish that they never messed with the USA.

parno4u: When exactly DID the nation of Iraq "mess with the USA"?

[mandalorian2298]

GO JAY make them wish that they never messed with the USA.

parno4u: When exactly DID the nation of Iraq "mess with the USA"?

When oil was first discovered in Iraq

[heavycola]

When fanatical nut jobs who believe they will be with 72 virgins, fly our planes into our buildings...screw the UN. Screw the liberal terrorist sympathizers. Screw getting a coalition of the willing. Take all that you have and make them regret their actions!

I refer you to the multitude of others who have already pointed out that it wasn't Saddam, or even his buddies, who committed the terrorist attacks on 9/11. But I guess any old eye for an eye will do....

WAR ON TERROR. Terrorists are in IRAQ. 1+1 always equals 2, no matter how much you scream it equals 3.

I would like to point out, rather futilely, that terror is an abstract noun. You may as well have a war on suggestibility, or on grace.

And jay, while your views and beliefs are arguably as extreme as the 'turrsts' (man straps bomb to himself, kills 20 innocent bystanders, that's evil - but man drops bombs from plane, kills 100s of innocent bystanders, that's the willa gawd) can you not understand that there WERE no terrorists/insurgents/whatever in iraq before the invasion? Saddam was an evil bastard, no doubt, but if the US/UK were just being humanitarian interventionists there are a load fo countries they coudl have chosen. Wake up man.

Yours

A liberal terrorist sympathiser

[Backglass]

Saddam was an evil bastard, no doubt, but if the US/UK were just being humanitarian interventionists there are a load fo countries they coudl have chosen. Wake up man.

This is the war-mongering flag-wavers "out" when they get cornered on the lies of the war and it's miserable failure. We were doing the world a service by removing this awful man! Of course...large gangs of awful men roam our OWN streets murdering, raping and robbing and a known abuser of civil rights is 95 miles off the Florida coast.

But that's different.

[RobinJ]

Stupid fucking war indeed! So many lives lost pointlessly!

Firstly, Sadaam should have been removed in the first war. Then, the US went about this one in the wrong way. If they were going to do it at all, which they shouldn't have, they should have invaded properly, rather than leaving the place with a load of terrorists running around. Would have worked better if they'd gone in and killed them all in the begining. And now they are going to have to stay in for ages until it's sorted out. But we all know they will back out of it soon enough, leaving Iraq in chaos. Should not have entered a war they could not possibly win (terrorists were always going to fight). Seriously, the USA haven't really won a war since WWII. Korea ended in a truce 50 odd years ago (although still no peace treaty to this day). Vietnam was the worst disaster of all - a horrific war which they were winning but then stupidly let the press in - journalists got horrific pictures home and government cracked under public pressure. Communists won and the country still isn't properly repaired. The USA just leaves chaos wherever it goes in war an never bothers cleaning it up!

And I won't forget ourselves, the British. Blindly followed George Bush on the whole bullshit 45 minute thing and now we're stuck in it as well - just Tony BLair trying to create a good legacy and failing miserably. He's done most other things quite well a part from that.

Somebody really needs to tell me to shut up now or I'll go on forever...