New Briarsburg Mafia. Town Wins! Ga7 wins the premium prize!

[karelpietertje]

Vote Count

flores (1) - violet
lalaland (2) - jace, blake
mandelorian (2) - fircoal, karel
naxus (4) - ace, haggis, strike wolf, /
fircoal (1) - mandy
AoG (1) - dazerazer,
dazerazer (3) - saxlad, sensfan, flores,
saxlad (1) - freezie
the herk (1) - commander
nag (1) - pmc
sensfan (1) - AoG
jace (1) - nag
no lynch (1) - herk

wait, I', puzzled here. in the last couple of votecounts, I had no vote, so I figured I had unvoted any votes in the past.
ah well, unvote

16 to lynch. 3 days to deadline

[Thezzaruz]

Mod's notes
Due to the overwhelming desire for an end to day 1, I'm placing a deadline on thursday night. At that time I will lynch whoever has the most votes.

Entirely your call but I must say that it seems to me that the deadline was a bit rushed tbh. 12 (RL) days total for a 30 player D1 is shorter than most games especially considering it was a delayed start of the game too. And the 3 days notice really was on the short side too IMO.

lalaland, cena, and mandy I will be replacing now. If AoG is really gone and flores wants out I will look for replacements for them. And I am prodding ace. If I don't get replacements, I'll start the modkilling

Again entirely your call but please hold off a bit on the modkilling of inactives. It's such a blunt tool to use. Only redeeming feature of it here is that after replacements it seems to be very few left and thus the risk of an unbalanced game is low.

[nagerous]

Glad to see you back in the game flores!

[strike wolf]

Ok so flores is back in and we have someone in the confirmation thread who looks interested in playing and I see at least one person in this forum right now who probably would be interested. I don't think modkilling is needed quite yet though I'd like to hear from a couple of those replacements that you recently chose.

P.S. Glad to see you back Flores. With all the fluff that's been posted we need as many people who will come up with 5 page long posts of information as possible

[aage]

Confirm
unvote (mind you, that's mandy's vote on fircoal I'm unvoting there...)

I've actually read most of the posts and I must say I totally agree with anyone saying that TheHerkMan's posts contain mostly of spam, fluff and far-fetched assumptions. He might thus be the hyperactive overposting newb, but if he were, how would he be familiar with a role called "punisher", one I personally have never had the slightest idea of ever hearing of, while I've been playing 10+ games by now? Possibly because he is a punisher himself, or either because he knows someone else is a punisher. It's D1, so he can't possibly have night-investigated anyone, so he either is on the punisher's team, or Tailgunner is this so-called punisher. Remember that TheHerkMan claims to know Tailgunner is innocent? (Yes, he did claim so in a post somewhere around page 25 i believe...)

I am itching to vote for him, especially since he also has voted for a no lynch (yeah the arguments just keep stacking...), but I think I will refrain from doing so for now. Keeping his posting attitude in mind I'm sure he will respond to this in the next 30 minutes.

[VioIet]

Well, since then i had time to cool and i decided to not let a couple of irrelevant spammers ruin my mafia experience

WTH Flores. More insults?
Seems like an arrogant post considering you have contributed very little to the game.

Entirely your call but I must say that it seems to me that the deadline was a bit rushed tbh. 12 (RL) days total for a 30 player D1 is shorter than most games especially considering it was a delayed start of the game too. And the 3 days notice really was on the short side too IMO.

I agree. I certainly don't share the sentiment that this game has been long. I mean its 30+ people. Did you honestly think Day 1 would be 5 pages or something like that? In the beginning of the thread, I recall people remembering 80 page Day One's.
I think this game is funny and quite interesting- too bad not everyone feel's the same. Despite all the inactives and lurkers- this remains to be a very active game. Don't know why some are calling it dead- this is by far the most active online mafia game I have ever played.

I see no need for a deadline.

Also i think its funny how people are eagerly trying to point out the inactives now. I tried doing that very early in the game- around the time niet was here.

[aage]

VioIet, please pretend to be the responsible person and don't provoke another fight...

[strike wolf]

Ok so I went back to the first page this morning:

[
3. Be careful with your roleclaims. I'm not saying you can't roleclaim, just that theres a few surprises in this game.

To be honest I had forgotten about this specific rule and when herk mentioned the Punisher role I kind of discarded it as unlikely but considering this and herk's sudden mention of an obscure role that he seemed to go well out of his way to look up especially as an obscure role. Add that to the fact he tries to draw suspicion to just about anyone who points a finger at him and his tendency to just copy the generic ideas put forth in this game, he strikes me as the most suspicious. unvote Vote Herk

[Thezzaruz]

@-naxus

Killing someone without a roleclaim is prolly not a good idea.

It's not the best idea admittedly but it isn't an awful one either on a deadlined D1. Actually considering the deadline I'd say it is something we'll have to live with.

Fir said earlier that vanilla townies are very rare in mafia games on cc and I would like to call shenanigans on this as Vanillas are the filler in pretty much every mafia and there are usually one+

It might have been a while since I played on here but IIRC vanilla roles is pretty rare in bigger games, especially the themed ones regularly not only was NV but it was also used as a selling point when looking for players (just as with this game).

I'm also curious to see what commander's role is. His very first post was about how "interesting" a role it is. I think he might be 3rd party. If he was a daykiller, I'd be dead. If I die tonight, Commander's deff scummy. JM2C

Also to when the Herkman said this, it seems to me like hes inviting his own death. Mafia kill him, then we all turn on commander who may/may not be innocent. Just wanted to point this out.

And there you have just reasoned scum into not killing him, nicely done. Now lets just hope that herk isn't that punisher type role he posted about as that one probably would be a good idea to get rid of quick.

You are saying Dazey would not be a loss to the town if she was lynched. She would only mildly be a loss because of her role blocking powers.
So using that line of argument- are you saying the town doesn’t lose anything if they lynch a vanilla.
Had dazey been a vanilla townie- it wouldn’t matter or not if she was lynched? The town wouldn’t lose anything. So every game, just lynch away all the vanilla townies- its no loss to the town?

I know I really shouldn't go beating the dead horse but I guess I'll just chalk it up as teaching.

Lynching any well playing townie, regardless of role, would mean a loss. However sometimes a not so well playing townies potential loss can be outweighed by the gain that can be had from the information that can be derived from its lynch. In dazes case the 20 or so pages of discussion with accusations and cases being made and debunked or possible links being spotted (or distances held) might very well be more beneficial to towns cause than what she (and her role) would be left alive. And that holds especially true if she keeps up her habit of merely posting things like, I'm town, don't lynch me, every now and again without adding to the rest of the discussion.

That said I'm not at all convinced that she is anything other than what she says (even though she still haven't offered up an explanation for her somewhat incoherent ramblings about a "doctor" in her claim) and that is why I still haven't voted for her. However with a deadline closing in and the MIA players being replaced I must say that I have a hard time to spot a better lynch, unless of course some lead opens up a somewhat legit case against someone else.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Hmm, well the deadline changes things.

My strategy of putting pressure on inactives to hopefully make them active and if not gain info from the waggon doesn't really work anymore. Now the guy we pick would just get killed quickly ...

I'm not quite sure what to do now.

I have to say, i agree with the deadline being a bit premature(sorry to those who are having the endless day 1 blues).
Is the deadline set in stone Mr. Squirrel?

[Haggis_McMutton]

Actually, if the deadline is upheld, I'm for lynching daze.

She is the only one we've had a proper bandwagon on, therefore she's the one from which we'll get the most benefit by lynching. The fact that she has contributed almost nothing also helps my case.

The problem is, i genuinely believe her to be a roleblocker, but, if the deadline is upheld, i think it's our best choice and that the info we would get from her wagon would outweigh the possible benefits of a roleblocking role in the hands of a person who doesn't follow the game.

[karelpietertje]

Actually, if the deadline is upheld, I'm for lynching daze.

She is the only one we've had a proper bandwagon on, therefore she's the one from which we'll get the most benefit by lynching. The fact that she has contributed almost nothing also helps my case.

The problem is, i genuinely believe her to be a roleblocker, but, if the deadline is upheld, i think it's our best choice and that the info we would get from her wagon would outweigh the possible benefits of a roleblocking role in the hands of a person who doesn't follow the game.

Stop that, we're not lynching a townie roleblocker, and as long as nobody counterclaims or gives us proper reasons why she isn't, that's what she is to me.
Pressing for it like this seems scummy. FoS Haggis

[Haggis_McMutton]

Actually, if the deadline is upheld, I'm for lynching daze.

She is the only one we've had a proper bandwagon on, therefore she's the one from which we'll get the most benefit by lynching. The fact that she has contributed almost nothing also helps my case.

The problem is, i genuinely believe her to be a roleblocker, but, if the deadline is upheld, i think it's our best choice and that the info we would get from her wagon would outweigh the possible benefits of a roleblocking role in the hands of a person who doesn't follow the game.

Stop that, we're not lynching a townie roleblocker, and as long as nobody counterclaims or gives us proper reasons why she isn't, that's what she is to me.
Pressing for it like this seems scummy. FoS Haggis

Would you care to address my points. Namely that the benefits outweigh the cost of lynching a town roleblocker who doesn't follow the game?

Also, press for what, I spent the last 3 pages(and a HUGE post) advocating someone else's lynch ... stop skimming maybe

[edocsil]

Vote theherkman

I do not take kindly to your baseless accusations of skimming. I am one of the players you simply do not accuse of that, I put far more thought into this game then many players do. I tire of your useless posts, reminiscent of witch hunts. Every accusation you make is fluff and feathers, no actual substance and do you ever like to throw you OMGUS accusations around.

More to the meat of my accusation is this whole issue with the punisher role. You're a rookie, you really shouldn't know of that role, that is unless your role is it/involved with it somehow.

Anyone else still curious how the hell herk knew there could be a punisher? It is one of the most obscure roles in the game

You've been skimming a lot. I don't know, I mentioned that there might be. I've also provided links to where I've read it.

This really pissed me off, the several links you provided brought me to the index page and one of the obscure roles pages, both of which I have read over quite thoroughly before. I knew there was no mention of the punisher, but I took a careful look throughout the whole wiki, no mention of it. And then you say I am skimming? On what basis? That isn't just something you throw around, it is a serious accusation.

You jump on every wagon, FOS everyone who disagrees with you and OMGUS like a preteen. Defend yourself.

And quite calling everyone (me) a skimmer.

[FloresDelMal]

Ok so flores is back in and we have someone in the confirmation thread who looks interested in playing and I see at least one person in this forum right now who probably would be interested. I don't think modkilling is needed quite yet though I'd like to hear from a couple of those replacements that you recently chose.

P.S. Glad to see you back Flores. With all the fluff that's been posted we need as many people who will come up with 5 page long posts of information as possible

VioIet, please pretend to be the responsible person and don't provoke another fight...

dont worry aage, from now on i wont adress the comments that are not relevant to the game's dynamic

Glad to see you back in the game flores!

P.S. Glad to see you back Flores. With all the fluff that's been posted we need as many people who will come up with 5 page long posts of information as possible

thanks guys ^^ ill do my best to not get off track this time around heh

[Jace22]

I'm also still wondering what the punisher is? Is it that description herk gave earlier? And if it is how does he know of it, unless that is his role? I mean I know other people have asked this, but I don't think herk has actually given an answer to this. (and btw yes I have looked at mafia wiki and found nothing)

[FloresDelMal]

Stop that, we're not lynching a townie roleblocker, and as long as nobody counterclaims or gives us proper reasons why she isn't, that's what she is to me.
Pressing for it like this seems scummy. FoS Haggis

someone suggested (anyone remembers who?) that in a game this size there might be several roleblocker's and begged anyone to who could counterclaim to not do so, at the moment i got sidetracked and didn't thought much of it, but right now it strikes me as quite fishy, since is not common at all to have several roleblocker's of the same allegiance.
for the sake of argument, has anyone played a serious and well balanced game (aka not a fir game) which had several roleblockers by faction?

[karelpietertje]

Actually, if the deadline is upheld, I'm for lynching daze.

She is the only one we've had a proper bandwagon on, therefore she's the one from which we'll get the most benefit by lynching. The fact that she has contributed almost nothing also helps my case.

The problem is, i genuinely believe her to be a roleblocker, but, if the deadline is upheld, i think it's our best choice and that the info we would get from her wagon would outweigh the possible benefits of a roleblocking role in the hands of a person who doesn't follow the game.

Stop that, we're not lynching a townie roleblocker, and as long as nobody counterclaims or gives us proper reasons why she isn't, that's what she is to me.
Pressing for it like this seems scummy. FoS Haggis

Would you care to address my points. Namely that the benefits outweigh the cost of lynching a town roleblocker who doesn't follow the game?

...

Even if she's a complete noob and blocks roles at random, she would be good to the town. Most night actions are bad for the town.
Also I don't feel that whether or not she's dead, there's not more information from the bandwagon on her.

So I don't think lynching a doctor could possible wheigh less than 'information benefits'.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Even if she's a complete noob and blocks roles at random, she would be good to the town. Most night actions are bad for the town.
Also I don't feel that whether or not she's dead, there's not more information from the bandwagon on her.

So I don't think lynching a doctor could possible wheigh less than 'information benefits'.

Erm, this is non-vanilla. It's quite likely that there are more pro-town night actions than anti-town ones

Wether or not she's scum would reveal a lot more information about the bandwaggon.

And i assume you meant "roleblocker" instead of doctor.
Lets' review the options(assuming the deadline is enforced):
1. We vote no lynch.
2. We kill someone with a total bandwaggon lasting 2 days. This means we gain very little information from killing that guy.
3. We kill someone with a 20 page bandwaggon, thus getting all the benefits of a proper lynch. Said person also doesn't follow the thread and has a role that, if used without information, is worthless.

I'm going for 3.

I was waiting for confirmation from Mr.Squirrel about the deadline but i guess it makes more sense to vote now and unvote if the deadline is lifted.

unvote vote daze

[karelpietertje]

All night actions together should be profitable to the mobsters, or they could never win.

[karelpietertje]

(so my original argument of roleblockers being profitable to town even if they're noob enough to act completely random still stands)

[freezie]

Unvote

Vote: Flores

Just correcting my post 5 pages ago, which I forgot to unvote.

[aage]

Haggis, you're actually thinking all those people have an action to perform during the night? Wouldn't it be more plausible for people to have some kind of "triggered ability" (i.e. "when this gets killed, XXX happens", or "when this gets investigated, YYY happens" or "this wins if ZZZ", or a combination...) instead of having 30 night abilities which will make night a TOTAL DISASTER? I don't think Squirrel would do that to himself, i mean, he already has to plow through countless posts to find all the votes, unvotes and replacement requests.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Haggis, you're actually thinking all those people have an action to perform during the night? Wouldn't it be more plausible for people to have some kind of "triggered ability" (i.e. "when this gets killed, XXX happens", or "when this gets investigated, YYY happens" or "this wins if ZZZ", or a combination...) instead of having 30 night abilities which will make night a TOTAL DISASTER? I don't think Squirrel would do that to himself, i mean, he already has to plow through countless posts to find all the votes, unvotes and replacement requests.

You mean things like bomb or bulletproof townie or whatever. Yeah, there's probably a few, that's why i said it's quite likely that town has more night actions as opposed to it's certain.
However mafia is usually what, 30% of players?
And scum can also have passive abilities.

I still think it's likely town has more night actions than scum even taking into account the passive abilities. Scum obviously has more powerfull night actions though, but if we're assuming daze votes at random she'll be more likely to hit town.

Anyway, I'm not saying that this is the best solution. I still think my original idea is the best solution. But if the deadline is enforced i think this is the most we can do.

[spiesr]

3. Be careful with your roleclaims. I'm not saying you can't roleclaim, just that theres a few surprises in this game.

To be honest I had forgotten about this specific rule and when herk mentioned the Punisher role I kind of discarded it as unlikely but considering this and herk's sudden mention of an obscure role that he seemed to go well out of his way to look up especially as an obscure role.

Yeah, saw that last night, then I went to bed. The more I look at it the more it all seems to fit. I will throw out a Vote on theHerkman.

All night actions together should be profitable to the mobsters, or they could never win.

This seems like a major oversimplification at best. If you follow that logic to the letter then town the night actions of town roleblockers would also be profitable to the mafia, creating some sort of paradox or something. Certainly some night action, like cop investigations, are by nature to the detriment of the mafia. Did you mean "all night phases" instead? That point could be argued. The mafia's ability to kill at night definitely seems to support that theory, although some setups contain a power role distribution that mitigates this advantage. As for how the mafia is supposed to win? If they are skilled enough and play their cards right a mafia group could be more successful during the day than the night.