Winner 4 Mafia *Game Over* (3/11)

[aage]

Aage, can you keep copying all nights or you have to be stuck with the action you copied the previous night?
(detail but something occured to me...)

No need to ponder, ga7, I'm a town busdriver. I drove edocsil and Army of GOD. Aage has to be lying, as I can't imagine there being two busdrivers.

Lier. You're next. As I already said. Don't take it personally, but your claim is bullshit to me unless you busdrove AoG and yourself. Since you didnt, your claim is bullshit. The second factor is that you did not come up with this whilst explaining why Edocsil died, which you should have, since it would make sense that AoG would be NK'd and Edocsil would be protected. If you're talking the truth, Edocsil is also a busdriver. However, I don't believe you.


Either way, let's find out... Wanna lose the "claimed doc faking a PR" or lynch the "guy that claimed outta nowhere that AoG is a filthy lying busdriver"? Or we could resort to lynching Victor or Edocsil... I'd prefer Victor of the two...

First off, um... scum much? "[Liar]. You're next." "Your claim is bullshit"? If that's not scummy, I don't know what is. Why the hell would I put myself in jeopardy with a fake counter-claim? Aage, you are the liar. Both AoG and me have evidence to support that he is not a busdriver (his PR and role claim, and my counter-claim). And edocsil is dead... how can we lynch him? I was hesitant to reveal my role, as I didn't want to be targeted for the next NK, but I had to call bullshit on your copy claim.

Very good. There is no reason to put yourself in jeopardy with a fake counter-claim. Except that this might very well be LyLo-1 and you're trying to lose the last investigative role.

Also, why would my copy-claim be bullshit? Do you have information of AoG's role, as a busdriver? I thought not.

No, if what you said is true, AoG and Edocsil have been busdriven. I targeted AoG with my copy. All I get back from Chu is "bus driver". Since AoG doesn't claim busdriver and Edocsil isn't a busdriver, you my friend must be lying, and AoG is lying about being a doc. That, or Chu doesn't comply with his own role descriptions. Since I suppose he has read all this stuff and might have figured it out if he did something wrong there I'm supposing it's you lying about busdriving Edoc and AoG, and AoG lying about not being a busdriver and claiming a doc role.

[/]

uhhhh before we go to into lynch or lose paranoia wifom
Is it possible for all claims to be true?
let us fit the claims actions with the claimed results.
Edo was killed
Aog claims to have used his protecion on edo
Victor claims to have switched aog and edo
aage claims to have copied a busdriver power by targeting aog

If Victor's claims are true then all actions put on edo were sent to aog and vise-versa
if aage's claims are true then he would have had to target a busdriver, let's say theoretically colton switched victor with edo
here's how night one would have played out (depending on what priority fircoal gives to the switches)

victor's action switches edo and aog
colton's action switches victor with aog (edo)

Aog receives the actions meant for edo (his own protection)
Victor receives the action meant for aog (aage's copy)
Edocsil receives the meant for victor (a night kill)

I could understand Colton potentially switching the unprotected doc out depending on the circumstance.
as for victor being a kill target, it's possible if scum viewed aog and edo to be strategically poor targets (due to each other's abilities of course)

[Victor Sullivan]

If colton switched edoc and me, how come aage got my action instead of AoG's? Now, with the copy role, did you copy the "busdriver" role then busdrive? Or do you have to wait for the next night?

[/]

because you switched edoc and aog of course.
edoc would have been aog when colton switched aog with you. if that's what happened.

[ga7]

Erm, I think you guys misunderstood how the busdriver chain works. I'm pretty sure one of you is lying because of this. It doesn't work "in part", ALL switches must be taken in account for any action. I know this to be true because we played recently a Chu RT with 3 busdrivers.

Possibility one:
Victor switches AoG & Edocsil. Colton switches AoG & Victor.
Edocsil < > AoG < > Victor

AoG couldn't have saved Edoc in this case, giving the extra life to Victor. Aage copying could have reached EITHER Edoc or Victor. 50% chance this is correct. That also would mean Edoc died because Victor was targeted, not AoG.

Possibility two:
Victor switches AoG & Edocsil. Colton switches Edocsil & himself.
Colton <> Edocsil <> AoG
AoG gave the extra life to either himself or Colton (but Colton died so obviously AoG). But in this possibility Edoc wouldn't have died no matter what! An action targeted at AoG would have reached Colton & vice versa, an action targeted at Edoc would have reached either AoG or Victor.

There can be variants of Possibility Two but they're all impossible either way. Possibility One could have happened in theory if Colton decided to save AoG. But then there is a very easy way to prove it!

Aage. Seeing his posts today I think he's telling the truth. He simply didn't seem to grasp well how busdrivers could work. I do want my question answered though:

Aage, can you keep copying all nights or you have to be stuck with the action you copied the previous night?
(detail but something occured to me...)

AoG. He is fishy with his "bad memory". However considering the claims he is at the mercy of others' actions, so no way to prove him lying or not easily. Besides, why would he claim to have protected Edoc after he died if he was scum? He could either be in cahoots with Victor or town.

Victor. There is so many things wrong that I don't know where to start.
First the action. Busdriving Edoc & AoG is a strong anti-town move to me. One hinted at being investigative, wanting to prove Sensfan guilty or innocent, and wanted protection. AoG claimed doc. It was clear one of them would be targeted, but he decides to switch them to make sure one of them die. The votes argument is total crap, Edoc made clear why he was prefering to see Sensfan's action in the night and even if Sens was guilty his argument made sense, especially now that we see he was a watcher. AoG might not have voted Sens, but he was the claimed doc. You gave scum an extra chance to kill him basically. Then this:

Well, what did you do last night, Army of GOD? Who'd you try to unsuccessfully save? Cuz I can't imagine you managed to save someone when 3 whole f***ing people are dead!!

FoS aage. So quick to lynch the potential doc, eh? I would like to get an explanation from Army, though.

These posts mean to me you had nothing to do with it, then you claim otherwise. With your action of busdriving Edoc & AoG, taken alone, you ask questions that you would have known the answers of! It is truely unbelievable to act like that as town then claim to have the answer.

Anyway this is circumstancial evidence but just considering Victor's claimed action and the fact Edoc died, the answer is clear.
Either Victor is a fakeclaiming scum, either he has an extra life. I realize that means AoG has to be telling the truth, but since we have a pole Aage & a pole Victor & AoG it doesn't matter, besides AoG's claim is more credible than the rest.

Vote Victor

[aage]

Aage. Seeing his posts today I think he's telling the truth. He simply didn't seem to grasp well how busdrivers could work. I do want my question answered though:

Aage, can you keep copying all nights or you have to be stuck with the action you copied the previous night?
(detail but something occured to me...)

I think I know how the busdriver works, it just didn't occur to me that Fircoal would've put in more than 1 busdriver. Thus my reaction.

As to answering that question: I don't think I will. Giving that kind of information might prove useful to the scum party, and I don't feel like helping them. I know this is going to make you feel less certain about me, but you're going to have to live with it.

Now that I've fully read your post, I think I agree with you. I've been focussing on AoG because Chu gave me the bus driver action whilst AoG wasn't a busdriver. Now that Victor is claiming to have switched Edoc and AoG, and Colton might have busdriven Victor and Edoc, it is a possibility that all are speaking the truth.
However, I think it's more likely that colton targeted himself and Edocsil, since Edoc asked for a protection and Colton might have felt like getting some. Sounds more credible to me anyway.

It all depends on the sequence in which the night actions are taking place.

In this case I think it's best to lynch Victor, simply for revealing important information nearly too late and trying to lynch me. It's well possible he's a busdriver... I just don't think he's a town busdriver.

unvote vote victor

[Victor Sullivan]

Erm, I think you guys misunderstood how the busdriver chain works. I'm pretty sure one of you is lying because of this. It doesn't work "in part", ALL switches must be taken in account for any action. I know this to be true because we played recently a Chu RT with 3 busdrivers.

Possibility one:
Victor switches AoG & Edocsil. Colton switches AoG & Victor.
Edocsil < > AoG < > Victor

AoG couldn't have saved Edoc in this case, giving the extra life to Victor. Aage copying could have reached EITHER Edoc or Victor. 50% chance this is correct. That also would mean Edoc died because Victor was targeted, not AoG.

Possibility two:
Victor switches AoG & Edocsil. Colton switches Edocsil & himself.
Colton <> Edocsil <> AoG
AoG gave the extra life to either himself or Colton (but Colton died so obviously AoG). But in this possibility Edoc wouldn't have died no matter what! An action targeted at AoG would have reached Colton & vice versa, an action targeted at Edoc would have reached either AoG or Victor.

There can be variants of Possibility Two but they're all impossible either way. Possibility One could have happened in theory if Colton decided to save AoG. But then there is a very easy way to prove it!

Okay, I agree, someone has to be lying.

AoG. He is fishy with his "bad memory". However considering the claims he is at the mercy of others' actions, so no way to prove him lying or not easily. Besides, why would he claim to have protected Edoc after he died if he was scum? He could either be in cahoots with Victor or town.

I can attest to his bad memory I think he even posted about it in Confession Despite that statement, I am not "in cahoots" with AoG. I just don't understand why you all would want to lynch a potential doc with 2-3 town dead! If we can prove him wrong (which we probably could Day 3) then we can lynch him, but until then I think it's a terrible idea to lynch him today, and I find it a little scummy to vote him on a hunch, when he's a claimed doc with (what seems to be) a PR.

Victor. There is so many things wrong that I don't know where to start.
First the action. Busdriving Edoc & AoG is a strong anti-town move to me. One hinted at being investigative, wanting to prove Sensfan guilty or innocent, and wanted protection. AoG claimed doc. It was clear one of them would be targeted, but he decides to switch them to make sure one of them die. The votes argument is total crap, Edoc made clear why he was prefering to see Sensfan's action in the night and even if Sens was guilty his argument made sense, especially now that we see he was a watcher. AoG might not have voted Sens, but he was the claimed doc. You gave scum an extra chance to kill him basically.

Honestly, I was running late for work and the deadline was really close, so I just looked at the vote count at the end of the day and decided the two people who I'd busdrive would be the two who didn't vote for sens (like I said earlier, I didn't realize / didn't vote for him, so that's why I didn't busdrive him). It wasn't really based off of anything substantial, so to vote me based off of that would be silly.

Then this:

Well, what did you do last night, Army of GOD? Who'd you try to unsuccessfully save? Cuz I can't imagine you managed to save someone when 3 whole f***ing people are dead!!

FoS aage. So quick to lynch the potential doc, eh? I would like to get an explanation from Army, though.

These posts mean to me you had nothing to do with it, then you claim otherwise. With your action of busdriving Edoc & AoG, taken alone, you ask questions that you would have known the answers of! It is truely unbelievable to act like that as town then claim to have the answer.

These quotes prove I wasn't nor am I "in cahoots" with AoG. I wanted to see who he tried to protect to see if I could refute it with my busdriver claim. I didn't entirely believe him either, but I'm more convinced now. I then decided to call out aage when he claimed he copied a busdriver role, I figured I was/am the only busdriver, so I called bullsh*t. I figured (and still figure) he's lying for reasons I've already stated.

Anyway this is circumstancial evidence but just considering Victor's claimed action and the fact Edoc died, the answer is clear.
Either Victor is a fakeclaiming scum, either he has an extra life. I realize that means AoG has to be telling the truth, but since we have a pole Aage & a pole Victor & AoG it doesn't matter, besides AoG's claim is more credible than the rest.

Vote Victor

So, why me over aage? Your logic doesn't follow. I called him out, and you vote me?? Honestly, why would I fake counter-claim aage and put myself at risk? I seriously want you to answer that question.

[aage]

So, why me over aage? Your logic doesn't follow. I called him out, and you vote me?? Honestly, why would I fake counter-claim aage and put myself at risk? I seriously want you to answer that question.

Well, you pretty much did the same in that other game, Nashville...
Also, but of course this is subjective because I can't "probe" myself, you look scummy with your delayed bus claim.

But okay, I now see why you did that, and I suppose we made the same mistake (thinking there's only 1 busdriver). It's just downright cruel we can't know what Colton did last night, cause it'd clear up all this mess.

[Army of GOD]

Just a quick question, what does colton's role mean? Host?

I have 40 phds...

[ga7]

You have reasonable explanations for the circumstancial evidence Victor, but I think you're missing the point. I choose you because:
-You're neither our potential last investigative nor our claimed doc
-Your claiming doesn't erase the fact you had more scumtells than any other (and yes your way of picking is still another, called skimming )
-If you are town you got an extra life from AoG

The thing is, I can see at least 3 reasons why you would make such a "counter-claim". The reason you offer makes sense, but it's not like it covers all angles either.
-There's usually a lyncher in Winner setups, I had a suspicion Aage could be one but he seems reasonable, however you could be one
-The situation is confusing enough that you could feel safe painting yourself as town busdriver, because even if we lynch Aage it would not be too likely for you to be incriminated
-You do have busdriver powers but not town aligned (Host or Mafia Busdriver)

I don't see how we could do it any safer than that. We might go "no lynch" because of it but that would mean everyone was telling the truth, and we'll have at least 1 NK less tonight. So I don't think there's any cons to this modus operanti.

[ga7]

Just a quick question, what does colton's role mean? Host?

I have 40 phds...

Hmm. Hosts can do if I recall well two actions by night amongst these: NK, cop investigation, doc protection, and busdriving action. They win as SK.

[aage]

Why would a host, being third party, want to have a doc protection action? I mean, docs can't protect themselves so i suppose neither can the host...

Either way, unvote vote vicky
Ga7's last post does make sense (as in, this is the safest lynch we'll get). Unless AoG is of course lying about his actions.

[ga7]

I think Doc protection could be useful for a Host if he chooses not to kill. Busdrive someone with yourself then protect him is like a self protection, although it has its risks.

[FloresDelMal]

I'm a town busdriver. I drove edocsil and Army of GOD. Aage has to be lying, as I can't imagine there being two busdrivers.

Victor can you please explain the logic behind your choice? to me doesn't make much sense switch the doctor with edoc who was very likely of being targeted after asking protection and outing himself as a town power role. what did you wanted to accomplish? get the claimed doctor killed?

Honestly, I wasn't really sure who to busdrive so I just picked the two people who didn't vote for sens. (After that I realized / didn't vote for sens either) But it makes sense: mafia (I'm betting aage) wanted the doc, AoG, dead, so he decides to kill him. But, I busdrove AoG and edocsil, so edocsil was killed instead. Now, aage is trying to lynch AoG, cuz he wasn't able to N1K him.

Honestly, I was running late for work and the deadline was really close, so I just looked at the vote count at the end of the day and decided the two people who I'd busdrive would be the two who didn't vote for sens (like I said earlier, I didn't realize / didn't vote for him, so that's why I didn't busdrive him). It wasn't really based off of anything substantial, so to vote me based off of that would be silly.

ga7, and / made both very good arguments, and the discussion was rich, but my reason to Vote Victor boils down to his answer to me,and the way he justified it, we all have lifes to run, i dont skim because i have to cook or whatever, anyway, the way he picked who to busdrive was really irresponsible, and when he admits to have ignored that / did the same thing, he also admitted to have skimmed, which is a scum tell, and no towny can afford being irresponsible and make his/her choices based on just reading the vote count, that is clearly scummy behavior.

Just a quick question, what does colton's role mean? Host?

I have 40 phds...

AoG for fucks sake start reading, Ga7 answered to that when i asked the same thing ages ago, you ass around with your PR and you claim to have bad memory; then you go and skim, seriously, with how many scum tells you think you can get away with? if you hadnt claimed doctor you could be the prime candidate for a lynch.

FOS AoG

[Fircoal]

Votes Count 2

Frenchie-chan
Cena-rules
aage (1) Victor
Flores
/
Army of GOD
Victor (3) Frenchie-chan , aage , Flores
No lunch

7 Alive, 4 to Lynch, 3 to get a new car

VICTOR GETS A NEW CAR!

[Victor Sullivan]

VICTOR GETS A NEW CAR!

OH MY GAWD!!! **hugs Bob Barker** Now let's see if I survive... I tell ya what, guys, you tell me who to busdrive and I will. That way, you can know I'm A. a town busdriver and B. A busdriver at all. In this situation, I think it would be wise to unvote vote no lynch. Clearly no one believes my counter-claim against aage to its fullest extent, so that's why I've decided to revoke it. I still find it ridiculous you attack me because of my counter-claim. THE POINT OF A COUNTER CLAIM IS TO PROVE SOMEONE'S LYING. This is the first mafia that I've been in where somebody (me) counter-claimed. In other mafias there have been MANY instances where people were like "Why didn't you counter-claim" and I can see now why they wouldn't... And what's a "lyncher" btw?

[/]

vote victor Who wants a no lynch with 7 players and 3 killers?!?
I'm sorry, even if we prove your role, it doesn't say much for alignment.
and besides "busdriver who tips everyone off beforehand" isn't a valued role

[Army of GOD]

Just a quick question, what does colton's role mean? Host?

I have 40 phds...

AoG for fucks sake start reading, Ga7 answered to that when i asked the same thing ages ago, you ass around with your PR and you claim to have bad memory; then you go and skim, seriously, with how many scum tells you think you can get away with? if you hadnt claimed doctor you could be the prime candidate for a lynch.

FOS AoG

I'm sorry for over-looking one sentence. Besides, I don't have nearly enough experience in mafia as you guys (as seen when I tried to protect myself) so I'm not always gonna understand your logic.

Like, I'm not 100% positive why we're going after Victor right now (it's too late anyway since / got the 4th vote in) but I see why we should lynch someone (we have a good shot at lynching mafia).

Oh, and I have 40 PhDs.

[Fircoal]

Votes Count 3

Frenchie-chan
Cena-rules
aage (1) Victor
Flores
/
Army of GOD
Victor (4) Frenchie-chan , aage , Flores , /
No lunch

7 Alive, 4 to Lynch, 3 to get a new car

And so Victor was tied up to the tree and was given the Prisca treatment. Oh the horrors that the poor bus driver had to go through. His hair was white and he had many wrinkles once it was finally over, he looked like a younger version of his former self. In the end Victor (Crazied Bus Loony) had been lynched.

NIGHT 2!!!

ACTIONS DUE WHEN I GET CRANKY!!!!!

THAT'LL BE AT THE LATEST 24 HOURS! >:U

[Victor Sullivan]

Wow, I guess that's what I get for counter-claiming...

[ga7]

Mad skillz I say.
Btw Victor, counterclaiming is when for example someone claims doc, then another claims to be the real doc. It goes like this:

-LOOK ITSA ME IMA DOCTOR!
-NO IAM!
-NO U! O SHI-

So you would have made a counterclaim if Aage was claiming busdriver for instance.

[Victor Sullivan]

Well he essentially was. He claimed he copied the busdriver from AoG which was bull, cuz I knew I was the busdriver and didn't busdrive myself and AoG, so I called him out.

[FloresDelMal]

Well he essentially was. He claimed he copied the busdriver from AoG which was bull, cuz I knew I was the busdriver and didn't busdrive myself and AoG, so I called him out.

still was a good lynch because you were not townie, and anyway, dead ppl shouldnt talk, not anything relevant to the game at least.

[Fircoal]

Well he essentially was. He claimed he copied the busdriver from AoG which was bull, cuz I knew I was the busdriver and didn't busdrive myself and AoG, so I called him out.

you have to remember that you're 3rd party, also there could be different factions of bus drivers.

[Fircoal]

Night drifted by and along with it did a very dark emo front. When the town woke up everyone was dressed in black and singing along to songs by the super emo depressed band of sadness and rage. The town was so emo that they didn't care to look to see who died. WEll it was Cena so no one would have cared anyway.

Cena (Town Jigglypuff) has been nightkilled.

DAY 3! GO