Why are the number of regions listed in a fog game?

[elfish_lad]

I know. I suck. I've seen this question before somewhere. I spent 15 minutes looking through the sugs fora and couldn't find a thing. But I do know that I've never read a satisfying answer to this query to date.

So... "fog" is an unique feature for a game type like this that you can't really get in real life. And it certainly adds a whole new level of strategy when it is one of the chosen settings. So why list the number of regions of your enemy in the side panel and why list anything for your opponent in the game log? I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

If anyone can direct me to an answer to these eternal questions it would be appreciated.

Ta,

E.

[rdsrds2120]

Conceptually, you're right, but I think if it were to be changed to that a lot of players might stop playing. It would be unfamiliar to a lot of people who already have decent strategies planned out on the fog setting.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

[SirSebstar]

it is so therefor it is so?!?

[40kguy]

I know. I suck. I've seen this question before somewhere. I spent 15 minutes looking through the sugs fora and couldn't find a thing. But I do know that I've never read a satisfying answer to this query to date.

So... "fog" is an unique feature for a game type like this that you can't really get in real life. And it certainly adds a whole new level of strategy when it is one of the chosen settings. So why list the number of regions of your enemy in the side panel and why list anything for your opponent in the game log? I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

If anyone can direct me to an answer to these eternal questions it would be appreciated.

Ta,

E.

its not hard at the beggining it says they have this many reidons the took this may territorys this turn so you know that by game log ou dont know the other ones

[elfish_lad]

Well. Cheers to you three! One is grumpy. One is a philosopher. One is smoked.

Still, no joy for my question.

Ta,

E.

[greenoaks]

I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

it is still possible to see in Fog, just not as well as when it is Sunny.

anyhow, what you are describing would be Pitch Black, No Moon and i don't think anyone fights in those conditions - even special force soldiers wear infra-red googles

[perchorin]

I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

it is still possible to see in Fog, just not as well as when it is Sunny.

anyhow, what you are describing would be Pitch Black, No Moon and i don't think anyone fights in those conditions - even special force soldiers wear infra-red googles

Now that's a good answer!

[SirSebstar]

Well. Cheers to you three! One is grumpy. One is a philosopher. One is smoked.

Still, no joy for my question.

Ta,

E.

i knew there was a reason to love you.. thanks for this line. it brought tears and a smile to my face..

i do think counting worked before nuclear. if you just wrote down the starting countries and added/subtracted the conquests, then you would have the same thing. Must i assume you dont want any message about any conquest? no information at all but you have been eliminated or won the game??

[MichelSableheart]

Must i assume you dont want any message about any conquest? no information at all but you have been eliminated or won the game??

Reading his first post...

[SNIP] ...and why list anything for your opponent in the game log? [SNIP]

I think you can assume that, yes.

On to the original question. Given that the game log shows who captured a region, and when killer neutrals capture a region from someone, a careful reading of the game log will reveal how many territories each player has in no spoils, flat-rate and escalating. Because the information is already available, listing them in the side panel does not give extra information in those games, while saving everyone who does not use BOB a significant amount of time.

The side panel was implemented before nuclear spoils, so it's not surprising that the specifics of nuclear spoils weren't taken into account when designing the side panel. And that there weren't any changes to the side panel when nuclear spoils were implemented is also no surprise, as the two are not obviously related. Asking the number of territories to be hidden on the side panel in nuclear spoils would be a suggestion that may be worth considering.

As to why the game log shows who conquered a territory in the first place, I'm not entirely sure. My guess is that it was far more convenient to code "hide the region names in the game log" rather then completely rewriting the entire game log for one specific game type.

[40kguy]

I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

it is still possible to see in Fog, just not as well as when it is Sunny.

anyhow, what you are describing would be Pitch Black, No Moon and i don't think anyone fights in those conditions - even special force soldiers wear infra-red googles

i said that

[greenoaks]

I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

it is still possible to see in Fog, just not as well as when it is Sunny.

anyhow, what you are describing would be Pitch Black, No Moon and i don't think anyone fights in those conditions - even special force soldiers wear infra-red googles

i said that

it seemed to me you were saying this:-

On to the original question. Given that the game log shows who captured a region, and when killer neutrals capture a region from someone, a careful reading of the game log will reveal how many territories each player has in no spoils, flat-rate and escalating. Because the information is already available, listing them in the side panel does not give extra information in those games, while saving everyone who does not use BOB a significant amount of time.

[Joodoo]

It seems like the original concept of FoW for CC was a very limited version. I've seen suggestion back then that encouraged the current FoG system to be changed.
Imo in a real FoG game, you shouldn't see anything except:
1.the number of spoils, regions, and troops due for you and in team games, your teammates
2.the number of troops on an opponent's territory if it is adjacent to your/your teammate's territories
3.the territories you and/or your teammate lost during another player's turn

Everything else should be masked by a ? symbol, including things like the number of spoils your opponents have, the number of bonus troops they got for holding a region, whether they got spoils or not at the end of the turn, and etc.

[elfish_lad]

No. None of these answers make sense for fog. Okay. CC and define "fog" anyway that it wants. But I'm a a veteran of many other online games and fog means... well... fog. No. Idea.

Which is all good. I know how to play a "CC fog game" just wondering why there are hints.

Cheers.

E.

[greenoaks]

and in fog you can see, but not well so you get some intelligence but not all

those other sites have you playing under a total blackout, not fog

[jefjef]

Well. Cheers to you three! One is grumpy. One is a philosopher. One is smoked.

Still, no joy for my question.

Ta,

E.

Dear Elf,

May your question find joy. I too would love to have fog game actually be a fog game. Not even know what an opponent is dropping.

I believe CC fog is the way it is because people would be to scared to play this internet game without knowledge.

Kinda makes the fog medal as meaningless as the ratings medal.

[Georgerx7di]

I don't know if someone gave you a real answer yet or not, but here it is. The side stats tell you things that you can figure out on your own, they just save you time.

You all start with the same number of territs, and you can see in the game log when someones looses or gains territs. So you can go through and count how many territs each person has, the sides stats just save you the trouble of tedious counting. Also side stats were meant to basically give everyone "bob". Bob tells you how many territs in fog, so if sidestats didn't tell you this then it would not have evened up that advantage that bob users had and we would still have all those threads about how people with bob have an advantage.

[40kguy]

I don't know if someone gave you a real answer yet or not, but here it is. The side stats tell you things that you can figure out on your own, they just save you time.

You all start with the same number of territs, and you can see in the game log when someones looses or gains territs. So you can go through and count how many territs each person has, the sides stats just save you the trouble of tedious counting. Also side stats were meant to basically give everyone "bob". Bob tells you how many territs in fog, so if sidestats didn't tell you this then it would not have evened up that advantage that bob users had and we would still have all those threads about how people with bob have an advantage.

i awnsered the same thing he said that was not a reson

[elfish_lad]

Gentlemen (and I use that term loosely of course) I thank you.

E.

[stahrgazer]

I know. I suck. I've seen this question before somewhere. I spent 15 minutes looking through the sugs fora and couldn't find a thing. But I do know that I've never read a satisfying answer to this query to date.

So... "fog" is an unique feature for a game type like this that you can't really get in real life. And it certainly adds a whole new level of strategy when it is one of the chosen settings. So why list the number of regions of your enemy in the side panel and why list anything for your opponent in the game log? I just think it would be far more challenging to have nothing but "?'s" listed next to your opponent and no clue who is moving until you see his 74 stack coming around the corner and go, "damn, I'm glad I have 183!"

If anyone can direct me to an answer to these eternal questions it would be appreciated.

Ta,

E.

Because in life, fog obscures some details, but ultimately doesn't prevent you from knowing something is there.