REINSTATE foelist poll - NOT the same as the change thread

[stahrgazer]

REINSTATE foelists for tournaments

Concise description:
Undo the recent change that eliminates foelists working for any tournament participant.

Specifics:

Re-activate the system of foelists to require the person who has a foelist to make the active choice to unfoe a specific player or leave the tournament.
The old system required tournament organizers to make a couple pm's to the players, so that they could choose to unfoe a specific player or be replaced in the tournament. Delays were minor.
Under the new system, foelists are inactived, so if a player joins a tournament he has no warning which of his foes joined the tournament after he did, and no warning he'll be in a game with a foe; thus, he has no warning that he may rather leave the tournament himself than play a specific party (even those whom CC Admin/Mods may have told him to foe after a C&A report).

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

Keeps CC's favored disciplinary system intact; in almost every case of suspected abuse, people are told by CC Mods to use foelist, whether the person who would be foed is warned or not.
Keeps personal choice and awareness: The player who uses a foelist no longer has pre-awareness of which former foe he will be playing with or against.

This is a suggestion to go back to the old way; as such, it should not be arbitrarily placed under the thread that went to the new, "f your foelists, if you want to participate in a tournament at all, you must do so blindly" system.

p.s. on merging thread and popularity: if you include the disagreement in a "done" thread you'll never know how many agree with me that CHOICE is more important than automation.

[karel]

I like the foe list,it served it's purpose..........
Just wont be the same

[max is gr8]

As all tournament organisers went with the policy that foe lists are ignored it makes sense for them not to count. If you don't want to play certain people look through the tournament when you join and see if any are on your foe list.

[stahrgazer]

As all tournament organisers went with the policy that foe lists are ignored it makes sense for them not to count. If you don't want to play certain people look through the tournament when you join and see if any are on your foe list.

I've organized a tournament in the past, and am contemplating organizing again. I didn't go with a policy that foelist would be ignored, thus, not all organizers went with that policy. I pm'd my players to give them the choice of leaving the tournament or removing the foe. I much prefer having to write an extra pm as an organizer, than the site arbitrarily eliminating a 'disciplinary method' the Mods continue to recommend people should use.

While you can look through the tournament BEFORE you join, I guess they're now requiring that members now review the tournament participants daily to see if any of their foes whom they would not "unfoe" also joined.

They're worried about a few people abusing foelists. I'm worried about the elimination of personal choice. Someone else I spoke with pondered how frequently someone truly intent on harassing another player would join tournament after tournament just to show how ineffective 'foelist' will be.

[max is gr8]

If you can't remember who the people are on your foe list it isn't generally important. In a tournament YOU are the one who is joining to play against ALL opponents not JUST the ones that aren't on your foe list. If you are so strongly against a player, you will not play in tournaments they would play or make a request to the mod to ensure that player does not join there ARE work-arounds. If you feel so passionately you will do as I have outlined.

[stahrgazer]

If you can't remember who the people are on your foe list it isn't generally important. In a tournament YOU are the one who is joining to play against ALL opponents not JUST the ones that aren't on your foe list. If you are so strongly against a player, you will not play in tournaments they would play or make a request to the mod to ensure that player does not join there ARE work-arounds. If you feel so passionately you will do as I have outlined.

There were work-arounds before, that kept the integrity of foelist (again, I emphasize, a tool that Admin and Moderators FREQUENTLY recommend) intact.

But I see.. your sage advice is, "no one who wants to use foelist should ever join a tournament"... gotcha.

Or, sage advice number 2: rather than have CC automate the 'warnings' that might, on occasion, require an additional pm, every player who has an active foelist should send the tourney a list of players they don't want to play against, so that the organizer can manually warn the original joined player. Great workaround (not).

[72o]

If you can't remember who the people are on your foe list it isn't generally important. In a tournament YOU are the one who is joining to play against ALL opponents not JUST the ones that aren't on your foe list. If you are so strongly against a player, you will not play in tournaments they would play or make a request to the mod to ensure that player does not join there ARE work-arounds. If you feel so passionately you will do as I have outlined.

There were work-arounds before, that kept the integrity of foelist (again, I emphasize, a tool that Admin and Moderators FREQUENTLY recommend) intact.

But I see.. your sage advice is, "no one who wants to use foelist should ever join a tournament"... gotcha.

Or, sage advice number 2: rather than have CC automate the 'warnings' that might, on occasion, require an additional pm, every player who has an active foelist should send the tourney a list of players they don't want to play against, so that the organizer can manually warn the original joined player. Great workaround (not).

You should whine some more. I bet eventually someone might agree with you.

[colton24]

Hey buddy guess what. The victim can't be abused again in the game chat.

One thing I should mention - if you play a tournament game with a foe, the foe will still be filtered out of the game chat.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing.

[stahrgazer]

Hey buddy guess what. The victim can't be abused again in the game chat.

One thing I should mention - if you play a tournament game with a foe, the foe will still be filtered out of the game chat.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing.

hey, buddy, guess what?
This simply means he might be assigned, in some tourneys, to a foe as a teammate, which means that once it's too late to choose to leave the game instead, if he would've chosen to do so, he'll have to unfoe after all to read his teammate's game discussion.

[stahrgazer]

hm...

If such an "overwhelming" majority wanted the foelists eliminated for tournaments, why 8 votes for leave it intact vs. 9 votes for keep it off? Doesn't look at all overwhelming to me.

[colton24]

Hey buddy guess what. The victim can't be abused again in the game chat.

One thing I should mention - if you play a tournament game with a foe, the foe will still be filtered out of the game chat.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing.

hey, buddy, guess what?
This simply means he might be assigned, in some tourneys, to a foe as a teammate, which means that once it's too late to choose to leave the game instead, if he would've chosen to do so, he'll have to unfoe after all to read his teammate's game discussion.

Hey, buudy, guess what?
You always get to chose your dubs partner for a tourney. You are never assigned one

[stahrgazer]

Hey, buudy, guess what?
You always get to chose your dubs partner for a tourney. You are never assigned one

Keep looking; some are randoms.

[Woodruff]

Hey buddy guess what. The victim can't be abused again in the game chat.

One thing I should mention - if you play a tournament game with a foe, the foe will still be filtered out of the game chat.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing.

hey, buddy, guess what?
This simply means he might be assigned, in some tourneys, to a foe as a teammate, which means that once it's too late to choose to leave the game instead, if he would've chosen to do so, he'll have to unfoe after all to read his teammate's game discussion.

Hey, buudy, guess what?
You always get to chose your dubs partner for a tourney. You are never assigned one

Colton, you REALLY, REALLY should learn someday to stop talking out of your ass.

[The Neon Peon]

This suggestion is just selfish.

The person is already organizing a tournament, creating massive amounts of games, sending PMs out to the right players with the right game numbers and passwords, counting up all the scores, creating more games... and you are saying that they should also have to deal with replying and sending PMs to members about their foe lists?

What are you doing? You're simply checking your inbox, and clicking on links to join the games... they are doing all that other stuff. Have you considered that perhaps you might spend 30 seconds when the tournament just starts to check the profiles of the people you're about to play with?

- It takes 30 seconds for you to do... it takes a long time for the organizer to read the complaints of several people about not being able to join games, sending messages out to people to take the others off foe lists, etc.
- You are doing nothing but clicking on links... the tournament organizer is spending a ton of time doing lots of other things for you already.
- It is YOUR foe list, why should the tournament organizer have to deal with it?

The reason people are voting for "no" on the poll is because it adds 30 seconds to the amount of work they have to do per tournament, which no one wants to do. Personally, I've never run a tournament, but I think that I can manage to put in 30 seconds of my time to save the organizer 5 minutes per person of sending PMs to people to take others off foe.

[AAFitz]

The suggestion is more than selfish, it is actually discriminatory.

Tournaments are open to the public. Games are not open to the public. They are open only to those not on foe.

You have a personal choice to play whatever game you want with someone or not, the same way you can in your own home. However, you cannot ban someone from a public restaurant, simply because you do not like them. Its discriminatory.

Do what you want in your games, but in public tournaments, you Shall not decide who gets to play. You can only decide if YOU play.

It may sound harsh or a stretch to compare this to discriminatory practices, but it is the EXACT same thing.

The only time you may be able to block someone, is if they break the rules, and a sort of restraining order may be necessary. Ie: you are still protected against someone suiciding you in a tourney, because its against the rules and they will be kicked out. Further, most unsportsmanlike behavior is not tolerated in tourneys, so you should not have to suffer that... so, the only reason to keep the foe list working, is to discriminate against a player you dont like, for whatever reason, and that would be completely discriminatory. You could effectively block them from something they have just as much right to as you or anyone else.

You cant do it in real life, and you cant do it here. Many dont like in real life either, they would love to open their business to only certain people, but there are laws against it. Now there are laws against it here too.

I hope you see now why PUBLIC TOURNAMENTS cannot have foe lists.

Its great CC finally removed this highly unfair system.