Dice

[Captain Crash]

FAQ says:

How do the dice work?
The dice are based on high quality random numbers from Random.org. The numbers are read from a large file containing columns of numbers from 1 to 6, in the format A1 A2 A3 D1 D2. When the dice are rolled, the game engine reads a line from the file and discards it. The appropriate numbers are used and the others are ignored. The file contains 500,000 lines of dice rolls and is re-loaded when all the lines are used up. As of November 2006 we consume 125,000 lines of dice rolls per day.

The number of different dice combinations is 7776 (6*6*6*6*6) and 500,000/7776 is slightly over 64 (64.3004). If every combination was represented the same number of times then there would only be 497,664 lines of dice combinations.

Question 1:
How have the remaining 2336 lines of dice combinations been determined?

Question 2, and more importantly:
With all possible outcomes not all equally represented, are the dice truly random?

[cyberdaniel]

First of all nobody ever said that if you take all the combinations in the file and make a chart that you'll have equally represented combinations. Since everything is random at one point we might even have a file full with lines of "1 1 1 1 1" (I wana see whose going to attack when that happens). Secondly if that were to be true the remaining lines might be buffer lines. Since the new lines aren't added exactly after one has been deleted at one point the lines might be at that limit and if lack isn't around all the time we need a buffer (otherwise you might have to wait till lack reloads the file).

[Captain Crash]

So the file is based on random numbers from which a random line is chosen...cool

Thanks

[xtratabasco]

I have posted in here somewhere that I have had some impossible rolls.

I have probably played 30 games to date in this site and in 2 of them I lost 22 men to 2 in different attacking situations, and never got my card.

but someone replyed saying they lost 29 to 2 when they were attacking, so I felt lucky, or unlucky.

I have played this game for over 30 years and have never, ever scene dice work agianst those kind of odds.


A math pro could help us out with statistics, but I like I would get struck by lighting 3 times or more befor you loose 29 to 2.

[MOBAJOBG]

I'd Auto-Attacked with 38vs28 and lost which was the worst I've ever experienced.

[xtratabasco]

I'd Auto-Attacked with 38vs28 and lost which was the worst I've ever experienced.

but 29 vs. 2 keeps the defenders dice to only 2, that is rarer, i think.

[IronE.GLE]

Playing against family, I was holding Australia with about 40 armies on Siam. I withstood attacks from 3 different players, each with at least double the armies I had. Then, as I was thinking it was over; my cousin marched through North America, through Kamtchaka and all the way to Siam. When he got there he had me outnumbered 88 to 4. I lost 2 armies on the first roll, then put up an impossible stand taking 60 armies without losing one. Once he finally stopped attacking, it became my turn. I used my 3 cards (one wild) and dropped everything on Siam (they wiped all my other positions out) and tried to break what was left of my cousin's forces. I now had him outnumbered 72 to 28 and felt that with the luck I was having I would wipe him out fairly easily. Well, I didn't stop until I was down to 10 armies and he still 22. I was taken off the board before my next move.

The point is that dice do funny things sometimes. If you throw enough dice, you'll eventually see something that not only makes you believe in God, but believe that he hates you.

[AK_iceman]

I'd Auto-Attacked with 38vs28 and lost which was the worst I've ever experienced.

but 29 vs. 2 keeps the defenders dice to only 2, that is rarer, i think.

The defense only use 2 dice max anyway.

[gerry22]

Playing against family, I was holding Australia with about 40 armies on Siam. I withstood attacks from 3 different players, each with at least double the armies I had. Then, as I was thinking it was over; my cousin marched through North America, through Kamtchaka and all the way to Siam. When he got there he had me outnumbered 88 to 4. I lost 2 armies on the first roll, then put up an impossible stand taking 60 armies without losing one. Once he finally stopped attacking, it became my turn. I used my 3 cards (one wild) and dropped everything on Siam (they wiped all my other positions out) and tried to break what was left of my cousin's forces. I now had him outnumbered 72 to 28 and felt that with the luck I was having I would wipe him out fairly easily. Well, I didn't stop until I was down to 10 armies and he still 22. I was taken off the board before my next move.

The point is that dice do funny things sometimes. If you throw enough dice, you'll eventually see something that not only makes you believe in God, but believe that he hates you.

You're right. People try to compare the dice rolls on cc with a game they play at home but you play way more games on cc than in person, so the dice rolls are going to show strange behavour every once in a while and you are also going to be much more aware of it because there is the appearance of it happening so much.

Nonetheless i think the defender dice rolls way too many 5's and 6's and i call for the dice rolls to appear in the game log.

[silvanthalas]

Nonetheless i think the defender dice rolls way too many 5's and 6's and i call for the dice rolls to appear in the game log.

Dice Analyzer is either your friend or you enemy - depending on what the results tell you.

I would love to see Dice Analyzer incorporated into each game, showing stats from everybody, total dice for all players, etc. But that would probably just lead to even more bitching.

[Evil Semp]

The dice analyzer keeps track of how many times a number is rolled. I think if it could keep track of when they are rolled. I mean how many times a defenders 6 kills an attackers 6. I think that would open up some eyes.

[gerry22]

The dice analyzer keeps track of how many times a number is rolled. I think if it could keep track of when they are rolled. I mean how many times a defenders 6 kills an attackers 6. I think that would open up some eyes.

yep, as it stands the dice analyzer leaves you in the same position you're in with the dice rolls. It's confusing, not nearly concise enough and how do you know that it doesn't cheat you too, after all how many people can claim to understnd how that thing works anyway?

If the dice rolls were in the game log we could tell very easily if the dice are against you or with you in any given game. It would be even better if there were a summary of dice throws on each individual game, but very basic and simply summaries and no plug in firefox nonsense.

e.g. The defender dice rolled

with one dice
6 = 27
5 = 12
4 = 5

etc..

with two dice

66 = 100
65 = 20
64 = 12
63 = 5
62 = 4
61 = 8
56 = 12
55 = 12
54 = 12
53 = 12

etc...

And Yes the dice analyzer probably does this but in a roundabout, confusing way.

[silvanthalas]

And Yes the dice analyzer probably does this but in a roundabout, confusing way.

I don't think it's confusing at all.

But, since, I've had a bad time of it with my rolls so far today (lots of losses on 3v2), I feel the need to rant again.

[gerry22]

the dice are bias when attacking a lower rank than you are. But of course this is stupid, who would do something as devious as this and after all how many man hours would it take to do such a thing.


Post in the game chat all your dice rolls and see how they differ against different ranks.

[silvanthalas]

the dice are bias when attacking a lower rank than you are.

Say what?

Are you really suggesting this? Because I certainly didn't.

[gerry22]

the dice are bias when attacking a lower rank than you are.

Say what?

Are you really suggesting this? Because I certainly didn't.

What's so astonishing about this?

[Anarkistsdream]

the dice are bias when attacking a lower rank than you are.

Say what?

Are you really suggesting this? Because I certainly didn't.

What's so astonishing about this?

So, which way are they biased towards?? And how did you come to this conclusion?

[gerry22]

the dice are bias when attacking a lower rank than you are.

Say what?

Are you really suggesting this? Because I certainly didn't.

What's so astonishing about this?

So, which way are they biased towards?? And how did you come to this conclusion?

In favour of the lower rank. Do you disagree?

[Anarkistsdream]

yes. I have talked with much higher ranks than me about this sort of thing, and there is no prrof to such a claim...

Also, I believe if this was SOP, then it would be listed in the FAQs.

[gerry22]

yes. I have talked with much higher ranks than me about this sort of thing, and there is no prrof to such a claim...

Also, I believe if this was SOP, then it would be listed in the FAQs.

What is SOP? I didn't claim to have to have proof. How could one get proof, you'd have to see the entire source code for the website for that? That's why you couldn't give me proof that the dice are Not bias.

[Anarkistsdream]

SOP=Standard Operating Procedure...

I mean, obviously Lack would know if that was written in the code.

And I can give you proof by talking to other people about their difference in die rolls using the Greasemonkey script. Peoples die rolls are not different just because of a higher or lower rank.

Also, you still never said which way you thought the dice were biased.

[gerry22]

The dice are in favour of lower ranks. If you are attacking someone with a lower rank than you it is favour of him. If someone of a higher rank attacks you it is favour of you. Some would say that this means it's balanced and therefore senseless and stupid.

The dice analyzer wouldn't be of much in providing proof. It's calculating all dice rolls not breaking them down into individual counts for each player, each game, ranks etc.

Talking to others is not proof.

lack telling you the dice are not fixed in this way is not proof either.

[moz976]

Just to let you know the dice do not care what rank you are. Everyone has the same chance to win or lose.

[gerry22]

so there!

[Corporate_slave]

FAQ says:

How do the dice work?
The dice are based on high quality random numbers from Random.org. The numbers are read from a large file containing columns of numbers from 1 to 6, in the format A1 A2 A3 D1 D2. When the dice are rolled, the game engine reads a line from the file and discards it. The appropriate numbers are used and the others are ignored. The file contains 500,000 lines of dice rolls and is re-loaded when all the lines are used up. As of November 2006 we consume 125,000 lines of dice rolls per day.

The number of different dice combinations is 7776 (6*6*6*6*6) and 500,000/7776 is slightly over 64 (64.3004). If every combination was represented the same number of times then there would only be 497,664 lines of dice combinations.

Question 1:
How have the remaining 2336 lines of dice combinations been determined?

Question 2, and more importantly:
With all possible outcomes not all equally represented, are the dice truly random?

I just watched 40 armies get tossed away over the course of 6 turns. Always against armies half as strong or less than mine. Every turn was a nightmare.

Let me make this clear: I did not enjoy myself. It stressed me out.

The dice need to be fixed. Grabbing random lines from a file and tossing the line after it's been used, is ridiculous. How is the line number randomly generated? What happens when you get to end of the file, and there's nothing but crappy rolls left? Well, we get what I ran into, where there's nothing but bad luck for days on end...

If I have one more game like the one I just had, I'm done with this site.

Can anyone suggest another site like this one? Preferably a site with a decent random number generator?