Webcomics Mafia! Evil Prevails!

[Suspect101]

Excessive cursing.

I was not mod killed, I was lynched.

dumbass

[sheepofdumb]

if I was mod he would have been mod killed on the spot. So good riddance.

L2read...

Also, Blacklisted.

[Minister Masket]

End of Richard!
Richard had been running a fine line with the town until recently, and to the other side, it was a sign he had outlived his usefulness. The man with the hat knew this task would have to be carried out by his ninja assassin, as only she knew how to dispose of the undead. Late in the night she silently approached him petting his pet rabbit. With the jewel in hand, she made the appropriate hand gestures alongside wispering the words. The result was that he was sealed inside the jewel for eternity, never again to take lives he so greatly enjoyed doing.


Iliad - Richard (Daytime Serial Killer) has been killed! (sort of)

Day 5 Begins!

[spiesr]

Crap! I knew I should have watched Iliad...

Last night I watched snorri and saw nothing.
Anybody else got anything?

[Iliad]

[Drench]

edit

[Drench]

edit

[sheepofdumb]

Well that was predictable.

[spiesr]

Now what?

[Snorri1234]

Dunno.

[nagerous]

Crap! I knew I should have watched Iliad...

Last night I watched snorri and saw nothing.
Anybody else got anything?

He was a SK so he was anti-town anyway.

[ace1217]

Crap! I knew I should have watched Iliad...

Last night I watched snorri and saw nothing.
Anybody else got anything?

He was a SK so he was anti-town anyway.

Well still we could have caught the killer, who is obviously scum, although I'm not certain the ninja can be detected by spiesr, assuming it is in fact a mafia ninja, and cannot be tracked or watched.

[Minister Masket]

Skoffin has replaced animorpherv1

[spiesr]

Okay Skoffin, care to clue us in on your supposed lynchee role?

[Skoffin]

Ergh, what a horrible role. Not only am I a lynchee, but I've been given the same name as my ex. My role is Roy, Town lynchee. That's all I've got.

[Minister Masket]

Shameless plugging I know, but do check out the new CC newsletter, featuring it's first Guest Editorial written by yours truely. If only to discover the amusing nicknames I gave to two players in this game.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=76684

[Snorri1234]

Ergh, what a horrible role. Not only am I a lynchee, but I've been given the same name as my ex. My role is Roy, Town lynchee. That's all I've got.

Okay.

[Nzen]

spiesr, I - for one - would like a little explanation regarding your last two posts. These do not paint a strong picture:

Crap! I knew I should have watched Iliad...
Last night I watched snorri and saw nothing.
Anybody else got anything?
(...)
Okay Skoffin, care to clue us in on your supposed lynchee role?

With only one claimed power role left and no white mage, why are you watching snorri instead of Iliad? It isn't as though either can be cop-checked, doctor-protected, or roleblocked. This suggests you expected a third party or scum to visit snorri; which? Frankly, it is rather inconvenient for town that you say you didn't watch the obvious scum target.

On top of that, you asked skoffin to confirm the role animorph received. Unfortunately for us, skoffin unthinkingly confirmed lynchee-hood. I choose 'unfortunately' because now the lyncher knows his target. Sure, I would be hard pressed to vote for skoffin at this point, but that doesn't mean skoffin still isn't in danger.

Both you and ga7 have posted some ambiguous statements. I would like some reassurance that I am grasping at straws.

[spiesr]

Lyncher always knows his target. It that role doesn't work very well if you don't know who you are trying to lynch as you can't really do anything towards winning.
I didn't watch Iliad because I thought if they hadn't done anything to him yet why would they start now? Maybe not the best reasoning, but it worked for me the night before.

[Nzen]

I puzzled over those questions these weeks and both have simple, probable answers.

AceArtemis wasn't just a doctor, he was a "white mage." The mafiascum wiki didn't have a description, but ace1217 offered one:

It's a variation of the doctor role: protections last two nights instead of one. This was a horrible loss, but if whoever was mentioned in the night scene as watching the killer comes out, we can avenge artemis, and bag a scum.

Unless AceArtemis figured out pmchugh was a cop - unlikely because the scum hit succeeded, the best protection target was Iliad. Pmchugh seemed a reasonable second target for the night kill because he led the attack on Drench, who they didn't know was an usurper. Last night marked the expiration for Iliad's protection. scum could choose Iliad, you, ace1217 & I, or an unclaimed player. Obviously, Iliad threatened them the most.

Instead, you say you watched snorri. huh?

Second, I agree that the lyncher knows who he must kill. But as you said, Minister Masket does everything by design and we ought take nothing as granted. I fear that there is an outside chance that Minister Masket didn't use a standard lyncher. He assigned Benny the white mage to AceArtemis (instead of? in addition to?) a doctor and FloresDelMal was Elan the bard (whatever that means). In a normal game, the lynchee isn't told of his role so he can't stake the safeclaim exactly as animorph did. A reasonable set-up prepares for that.

In this case, the lyncher may not need to get a town lynch at all. One may object that this would have been the time for the 'lyncher' to strike, yet he didn't. Doubt explains this. We learn about the nightkill via the theme, not our user names. (In retrospect, Its Bolt's idea for a mass nameclaim would have been fantastically bad for mafia because even though it would not have given away alignments, the nightkill flavortext would expose the hitmen.) Imagine yourself as a mod who wants to create a lyncher who doesn't need to convince town to kill his target (compatible with telling the victim). There must be a barrier to a day one stab in that case. This line of reasoning suggests that the player knows his object of hatred via his webcomic character, not the player. Then, he can't tell whether animorph is a third party falseclaiming for vote immunity or his legitimate target. Likely, death is the consequence of choosing the wrong player.

I feel loath to present an uncommon role set as the only solution but it accounts for the complete state of current events. Animorph received the lynchee role and chose to claim. If this were the normal version, the mod failed (they are now effectively vanilla). While inadvised, this does not break the version I described above. The lyncher could have killed animorph then, but withheld in case he wasn't the right character. The threat of suicide stays his hand. Likely, down the line he would argue for a mass character claim so we can ferret out the godfather and the ninja. Instead, you asked and skoffin admitted (her?) character. If my theory is correct, skoffin should die as soon as the lyncher notices the claim.

Why did you ask a lynchee to confirm (her?) role? If this were a falseclaim by a third party, skoffin would agree with her predecessor or face immediate suspicion. If she really is the lynchee, then a confirmation can only help the lyncher and scum (when we lose yet another townie). I do believe she received the lynchee role because a third party probably wouldn't volunteer the character as well (especially the unintuitive Roy).

Were it isolated curiosity, I would have let this lie. Instead, spiesr, you say curiosity moved you to watch snorri rather than the late daykiller. Perhaps if you had watched Iliad, it would inconvenience whoever you would have to claim you saw. Though daring, falseclaiming as a watcher is not impossible when no one visits your targets. Except, when the dead cop visits the claimed character with horns who town was about to grill over his falseclaim. I have noted two other suspicious incidents, but will reserve them so you can respond.

unvote vote spiesr

[spiesr]

Well, so far your case appears to be based on how I asked the following:

Okay Skoffin, care to clue us in on your supposed lynchee role?

You interpreted this to mean that I was asking him to reveal his character. Which I guess is part of what I was asking. I desired him to give us some more info as his predecessor had already claimed but had done a poor job giving us information about what exactly the details of his role are.
Apparently asking this makes me the lyncher under the potential unusual setup that this game could potenially be operating under, but of course we don't actually know such parts of the setup so we can't be sure.


I have to go now aand will finish posting my responses at a later time...

[Nzen]

Oh no spiesr, I do not accuse you of being the lyncher. I accuse you of being scum in league with the lyncher. I base this on more than a single sentence, it is a pattern of behavior that fuels my suspicion.

The most damning is not asking skoffin about her role. I am unsatisfied with the entire story you give about how ga7 and you have used each night as 'watcher.'

Mine?
Only that "I" (ga7) wathced Iliad on Night 1 and / on Night 2 and that no one visited either of them. So nothing that really turned out to be that useful.
(...)
Crap! I knew I should have watched Iliad...
Last night I watched snorri and saw nothing.
Anybody else got anything?

Of course, it is irrational to expect a watcher to have perfect aim every night. Yet the night sequence spiesr provides doesn't match what a watcher would reasonably do or see. Spiesr says ga7 watched Iliad the first night. Plausible: he claimed, maybe the cop would check or the doctor protect. But no one showed. Really? Assume for a moment this happened; well, maybe pmchugh checked me, Nzen. After all, my fool partner claimed, so I had to. AceArtemis could have taken a similar tack and protected the less obviously third party. But, AceArtemis had a stronger incentive to protect an obvious scum target. Iliad cast his lot with town and went on to prove it. This night 1 element is WiFoM, equally likely either way.

Night two, spiesr says ga7 watched /. /? Day two saw FloresDelMal daykilled and we failed to lynch anyone else. However, I got the sense that AceArtemis somewhat led the conversation. He used bolt's quotes to advocate animorph's lynch and then to impugn FloresDelMal for bandwagoning its bolt after his claim. Pmchugh also contributed by taking me and AceArtemis to task for voting militant for lurking. In that case, there are many people worth watching in case of scum, cop, or doctor: Iliad, ace1217 or me, AceArtemis, ect. Instead, you say ga7 watched / and no one visited him. I can believe the second part of that sentence but not the first. Here is /’s testimony for day 2:

I agree as well, vote floresdelmal.
I have stated all my reasons yesterday.

The thing that is bothering me, is that someone could deliberately kill Bolt in an attempt to frame flores, knowing that he had said such a strong comment about Flores the day before.

What exactly do you mean? We know who killed bolt, it was Iliad, I don't see how that effects the case against flores in any way.
(...)
Yes flores, we are all just being sexist, there really was nothing scummy about what you did, I mean, it must have been a complete coincidence that the jester made the exact same (completely not scummy) move that you did to get himself lynched.

This is all he said. These do not inspire much hope (doctor protection) or fear (cop or nightkill). Iliad – in stark contrast – is again a ripe object of visitation. He again effected town’s dominant wish. That probably merited some protection from the ‘white mage.’ Pmchugh felt temptation again to check Iliad (if he hadn’t actually done so on night 1). There is no sense in continually suspecting a potential town vigilante when you can be sure. The lover pair presents the same incentive as the night before. And, a conversation leader is a lightning rod for scum and doctor attention.

But, checking any of these might have produced some results. Checking Iliad night one ought to have produced a result. Spiesr may try to blame ga7 for this foolishness, but we only have his word on that. If someone wanted to falseclaim as a watcher, the easiest answers always involve seeing no activity on random players.

Some may object that spiesr proved his role on morning four. Pmchugh led town against Drench (day three), who staved us off with his convoluted falseclaim. Morning four, we wake to pmchugh dead and on spiesr’s ‘confirmation’ Iliad kills Drench.

(...) Noticing this made Lucas reel back in horror, was this a demon? He had horns! Clearly he wasn't a protagonist, and Lucas knew he had to reveal his investigation to the drawn. Watching him go, a solitary figure looked over the rim of his cardboard box in a nearby alley, and above him on the roof, yet another character was watching the events below.
The ninja returned for this night's kill, and the person running through the streets proved to be an obvious target. From the roof of an overlooking building, it took just one shuriken throw to the neck to bring him down. Lucas bled to death in the middle of the street - his discovery was for naught.
pmchugh - Lucas (Cop) has been killed!

(quotes above emphasizing "clearly not a protagonist")
So pmc was the cop and went to someone's house and saw that they were evil.
(quotes cardboard box)
That was me. I watched drench last night and pmc visited him.
So drench is bad. The description that the post shows seems to match drench's claimed character however this seems to match him being scum. Vote Drench
I am Dr Hobo - Town Watcher.
The guy I replaced watched Iliad on Night 1 and / on Night 2. No-one visited them.
Last night I watched Drench. Pmc visited him.

I can’t deny the flavor-text, some player’s character watched or tracked one of those two players. There may be an unclaimed tracker among us. However, there is no way to prove it was you, spiesr. It doesn’t take a watcher to figure out what happened in the scene and take credit for it. Drench already claimed as Krug(lor), who has horns. Town was about ready to kill him the day before and certainly would when his story broke down. I wouldn’t put it past the scum to take the easy way out: bus Drench to establish credibility for one of their own. I believe spiesr are that double agent.

That ploy requires exactly the story spiesr provided: nothing happened except when Minister Masket practically told us what did. The story you told today fits the growing pattern. When there is no protection for Iliad anymore, scum swept in. A real watcher would have kept on him at least last night, if not every night. Instead, you watched snorri because

(…) I didn't watch Iliad because I thought if they hadn't done anything to him yet why would they start now? Maybe not the best reasoning, but it worked for me the night before.

It is simpler to believe that you didn’t watch Iliad because you would have to choose which scumbuddy to implicate. It is much easier to pretend the mafia doesn’t follow any sort of strategy with night kills. The very opposite is true. Your story implies you and ga7 follow no strategy. Iliad: reasonable, but no one visits him, unlikely. /: unreasonable given his day 2 activity and better targets. Drench: reasonable, as a watcher or as a scum busser. Snorri: again unreasonable.

I implore all reading to consider how consistent spiesr’s story is against what we expect a watcher to do. Scum don’t hand us this sort of tell, we have to root about for it. This is the strongest evidence encountered outside of Drench’s falseclaim. I have held some evidence in reserve, again, because it only corroborates anti-town sympathy. It does not outweigh the above, only supports it. On this, I ask that you vote for spiesr.

By the way, I am not the first to suspect this is not a normal lyncher set-up:

First... if you (animorph) are a lynchee thats the first time ive ever seen the lynchee actually told they are one. (...)

[Natewolfman]

WOW Nzen makes some long posts... lol ill read it later

[spiesr]

Oh no spiesr, I do not accuse you of being the lyncher. I accuse you of being scum in league with the lyncher. I base this on more than a single sentence, it is a pattern of behavior that fuels my suspicion.

So you are accusing of me being scum and trying to help the lynched by drawing info out of Skoffin the presumed lynchee.
Well the part about me trying to help the lyncher is by far the weakest part of your argument so I will focus mainly on the claim of me being scum.

well, maybe pmchugh checked me, Nzen.

Another likely target for pmc to look at investigate night one would have been animorpher. Animorpher's lynchee claim left him sort of sitting on a safe claim if he was scum. It would be really easy and for pms to check on this night one and then he would know if he was scum or really the lynchee. That way those who would later accuse animorpher of fake claiming could be called out and pegged as possible lynchers. I think that this is the most likely target for pmc's night 1 action.

Night two, spiesr says ga7 watched /. /?

As for why ga7 did this I can offer no real explanation. He wasn't that active in this game (hence my replacing him) so maybe he just didn't put a lot of thought into his watching? Maybe he had an idea, maybe he took a shot in the dark? I don't know.

These do not inspire much hope (doctor protection) or fear (cop or nightkill). Iliad – in stark contrast – is again a ripe object of visitation. He again effected town’s dominant wish. That probably merited some protection from the ‘white mage.’

Remember that those most likely to doc protection are for that very reason less likely to be killed by the mafia. The watcher is most useful in watching the mafia kill someone, not watching the doc saving someone that no one tried to kill. Maybe ga7 used a similar line of thinking? But I still don't really know why he did all he did.

Watching him go, a solitary figure looked over the rim of his cardboard box in a nearby alley, and above him on the roof, yet another character was watching the events below.

I can’t deny the flavor-text, some player’s character watched or tracked one of those two players. There may be an unclaimed tracker among us. However, there is no way to prove it was you, spiesr.

Yes there may be some sort of tracker out there as the scene sort of indicates two people view the action. The scene clearly indicates someone watching from a cardboard box. This was me, Doctor Hobo. Unless someone can somehow counter claim this act it seems that I speak the truth about my claim unless I am some sort of mafia hobo who, for some strange reason, watched the person the mafia decided to kill or watched the mafia member himself.

nothing happened except when Minister Masket practically told us what did.

But most importantly he practically told you that I watched the scene, unless someone can counter that act.

It is simpler to believe that you didn’t watch Iliad because you would have to choose which scumbuddy to implicate. It is much easier to pretend the mafia doesn’t follow any sort of strategy with night kills

If I was mafia the easiest thing for me to claim there would be to say that I watched Iliad but the mafia ninja was undetectable as the town as already theorized. But that defense is too WIFOMy...

[nagerous]

High Finger of Suspicion on Nzen for trying to vote off a power role.