Winkerman, Kann, Frogman [Cleared] adecdog [Busted]

[bjn74]

Subject line: Winkerman and others


These are suspected Multis

Suspect users: Winkerman and too many new accounts to list

Game number: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=159373(My Game)
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161311
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161310
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161309
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161307
THE NEXT ONES,PERSON JOINS AND DOES NOTHING RIGHT OR JUST MISSES TURNS ( COULD BE A NEW PLAYER BUT NOT LIKELY )

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=158924
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=154790
Their is a few others.
Comments: I dont know about his partners in the games, nor do I know if Kann in my game is in on it. The guy in my game ( adecdog ) acted like he knew how to play, but didnt do anything right. No partner fortification, wasted attacking 3 on 3 all over the map on the first turn. It was too obvious. He said he was from Israel and when I said I was going to ask him some questions about Israel, he stopped talking and started deadbeating. I didnt accuse winkerman ( because I dont know if its him or a buddy), I just said someones cheating and he got way too overdramatic. Look at the games..It speaks

This is my first time having to do this. Ive noticed it with other players, but only like 3 times or so in 105 + games, but I have to report it. I just dont understand why someone cares more about their rank then the fun playing.


bjn74

[Kann]

KANN REPONDS:

I am asking the mods to discipline bjn in this. Take a look at his attitude in the game... A newb comes in and screws him in doubles and he has the audacity to accuse Wink of cheating....I am new to the site and a paying customer, but will be gone in a flash if I have to put up with people like him accusing me of cheating every time they draw a slacker in a doubles game..

That said I knew Winkleman long before I ever heard of this site. It was odd because we were in another chat and I mentioned this and he said he played here too.... There is no way in the world he has done what he was accused of. I demand an apology for both my partner and I from Mr. BJN


Go ahead fellas check ISPs, cookies whatever cloak and dagger stuff you have... but be sure to read the BJN's comments when making your final decision..

I justr checked the games he mentioned.... Most are on the first turn.. Really tough for me to see a pattern of anything, much less cheating.... MOds please delete this post.... This man's attack on the good name of Winkleman is unwarrented and completely reprehensible...

[Kann]

additionally if you could please cancel the game in question 159373

So that I no longer have to deal with this player.


THANK YOU!

[bjn74]

It is unfortunate that you are this sad. If you read the chat and my complaint, I didnt say YOU were cheating. Ive been dealt bad doubles before, but this is just plain obvious. Look at the current games, etc..And apologize for my attitude?!?! You've got to be kidding. I do admit to saying a cussword, which I shouldnt have done. But were playing Risk man...Your supposed to get online and play and have fun and not cheat. But somebody is cheating, I brought it up in the game, and now I brought it up here. I will never apologize to you for anything, because I know whats going on. And for you to be oblivious to it, and act like I am just mad at having a bad partner, means you know the truth. Here, why dont you try this. See if you can work your way up the ranks here: http://www.fisher-price.com/us/ms2/baby-games.asp

[Kann]

This could easily escalate into a flame war (as evidenced by your last comment)

This is the third game Winkerman and I have played as partners(1-1). I would ask anyone to contact any of our previous opponents if they have questions.

I will respond to any and all inquiries from game moderators.

I will refrain from any futher comments about bjn74 or replies to his posts as it would serve no purpose except to let off steam.

Again I renew my requests from the earlier post to the mods to eliminate this game and hand out whatever justice they feel is appropriate.

[winkerman]

It is absolutely outrageous and beyond the pale for bjn74 to accuse me of cheating. Whining about a deadbeat partner is one thing--but accusing other players of a vast conspiracy due to your deadbeat partner is another thing entirely.

For bjn74 to accuse me of cheating in a public forum like this is serious. It is critically important that, once the moderators determine that this charge is groundless, that bjn74 be held accountable for making it so casually.

No one should have to stand for this kind of treatment simply because one player hates losing.

[4 U 2 NV]

Well as it usually goes, innocent until proven guilty. Bjn, whether he is a sore loser or he does think something is iffy thinks he has some proof in it. I would just relax and let the mods deal with it. You probably have nothing to worry about. Then again, i never got accused yet. here's hoping!

4 U 2 NV

[bjn74]

Why would I be upset about losing?? Look at my games!!! I lose some , I win some.. I dont care about my rank!! I am here to have fun..thats why I join 10-15 games a day....You are a cheat...and you know it.

[bjn74]

Let it be inserted as exhibit b(or something) that Kann stated that he and his partner have known each other for years. And they "were in another chat" where they mentioned this and said"I play there too". Pretty funny that they so happen to join 21 days apart without speaking of this site. These guys are liars, through and through. I extend this complaint officialy to Kann as well for abaiding cheating.

[Kann]

for the record....I have known winkleman for about 18 months (not many years) from another site, where inicidently he is a moderator...

I will be glad to produce for the mods the board transcipt where we first realized we both had found this site. ( I will not make it available to bjn74 because I dont want him fouling the water of another site)

The facts will speak for themselves....I eagerly await an investigation.

[winkerman]

OK, bjn74, since you are so cavalier with your accusations--I have a proposal for you.

If I am busted for cheating, I will withdraw from the site immediately. If I am cleared, I would ask you to commit to doing the same.

What about it? Are you man enough to put your integrity on the line? Or do you have any to begin with?

If you are serious about your charges you will agree to leave the site forever if you are wrong. Because I sure as hell will leave if I'm busted.

What about it, bjn74?

[Kann]

Im in agreement with that too....I will give up the site and the money I have put into it if Wink or I are proven cheaters......That he has the ability to drag first Winkleman and now my good names through the mud in public is disheatening to say the least. If he continues to play on the site.... well I really dont need to be a part of it anymore..

[frogman]

I'm in most of those games you list above. What are you accusing us of? You might notice that there are a lot of new players that deadbeat in this game.

I'll put up as well, you PROVE Winkerman is cheating and I'll resign from this site as well.

You couldn't have possibly picked a person less likely to cheat than him.

Enjoy trying to prove he multis, because you are 100% dead wrong.

[bjn74]

take your proposal and you know what with it..If you are caught cheating you will leave? haha. You wouldnt have the choice. Im not going anywhere.And Kann, are you winkermans little croney or something? Igor and the doctor it seems.

[frogman]

The thing is, he won't be caught cheating. You're just slinging mud without consequence to you. If you're so sure he's cheating, back it up. At a minimum, I'll hope you'll apologize.

[winkerman]

take your proposal and you know what with it..If you are caught cheating you will leave? haha. You wouldnt have the choice. Im not going anywhere.

Well, that is disappointing. It was clear you had no shame; now we know you have no courage either.

[Kann]

BJN, you said you are sure he was cheating...Well apparently you are not sure anymore...Two other people who were not initially involved have put their credibility and membership on the line....I can probably find 20 others who will vouch for Winkleman.

bjn74:"These guys are liars, through and through"

Mods, please make an example of this guy. It really kills the credibility of this site to have innocent people drug through the mud by such a juvenile accuser. He cannot be allowed to make comments like this on public boards.

[frogman]

As inconvienient as they are to your case, here are some facts.


In this game, winkerman, frogman (me), and Voltaire discuss setting up some triples games. It's decided we'd set the games up on Jan 4th at 9pm. You'll note in the chat log that the games are set up then and Voltaire is late (hence the grief I give him).

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=160791

at 9:21pm est, Voltaire posts that he's set up in the 4 triples games.

At this time, ANYBODY can join those games.

The following are the four games set up and the time in which the game was initialized (when the last player joined).


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161311
Jan 5th, 9:28am (12 hours later)

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161310
Jan 5th, 9:07am (12 hours later)

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161307
Jan 5th, 8:18am (11 hours later)

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=161309
Jan 5th, 8:14am (11 hours later)


Yep, there are new people in our triples games, that's a fact.

Do you still feel like pressing the issue that they are multis?

[Kantankerous]

uhh, i could be mistaken but i believe if you flip through this forum false accusations are made all the time. if you are not cheating it shouldn't matter to you. in fact you should be happy that people are given the freedom to accuse on a whim. it means that overall there are less multis and cheaters to deal with. and, if you are not cheating, why should it even matter? all it means is someone does not like your strategy.

[Kann]

2 points:

1. First the system is not very good to report cheats. The good name of players gets drug through the mud for absolutely no reason.

2. It wasnt so much the accusation it was the attitude of the accuser in addition to his language..

[wcaclimbing]

I believe kann and wankerman.

i dont think they are multis

but i wouldnt bet my staying with the site on it...

[Kann]

.. You make my first point.... There is now a shred of doubt about our legitimacy.. No matter how small through absolutely no fault of either of us... All i did was defend Winkleman and this guy turns on me...... The system for reporting these things is

A. Wayyyyy tooo slow... This has been on the boards for 48 hours....Where are the mods...

B. Too public.... Hey if someone cheats.... Hang the scarlet letter.. ban them, make all their dice 1s.... Do whatever you have to do,,,, But to even suggest Winkleman is a cheat is ridiculous...

I could care less about a rating in this game... The object is to have fun... Once I fully understand the site I see a number of ways to do that... One is strategic planning with friends in doubles and triples... To cheat would remove any fun from the game......

[AndyDufresne]

Winkerman, Kann, and Frogman are all CLEARED of being multiple accounts.

You mentioned the user 'adecdog', he was busted along with a few other new recruits of wierdo86, sketchem, idontluv24


--Andy

[AndyDufresne]

2 points:

1. First the system is not very good to report cheats. The good name of players gets drug through the mud for absolutely no reason.

2. It wasnt so much the accusation it was the attitude of the accuser in addition to his language..

It may not be the best system, but would you rather have all anonymous reports? If there wasn't forum busting, would it look like we actually even cared about multiple accounts and enforcing the rules?

People like things in the public, as shady things can go on in private areas.


--Andy

[drunkengoat]

HOLY CRAP, THIS MADE MY DAY!!!! AHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Forgive me for digging up old threads, but I was searching some of my SD compadres who talked me into joining the fray here and getting schooled like an FPS Doug victim, and this was the only thread that's shown up. I figured as active as we all are on another message board, it'd be second nature to shake things up here, but of course... It has to be someone questioning their integrity.

Knowing them both for a couple years, wink and kann are class acts. And I am pretty sure anyone with half a brain has seen it in this thread.

Best thread ever, man.