Global Warming My Azz

[areon]

That mentality is common in the business world which isn't surprising, they will do whatever saves them the bucks if they aren't forced to.

That site is interesting but here is something I posted in another thread,

Once the maximum carrying capacity is met it might look like a straight line but the numbers alternate between going up and down. These living systems balance themselves out and can be looked at for the population of one species, the carbon cycle, or the water cycle. Until the industrial revolution, the natural world had spent millions of years accumulating carbon into the ground and soaking into the oceans. It doesn't matter whether volcanoes put out more greenhouse gases than the whole human world has since the industrial revolution began, the amount may look insignificant but that is illusion. The carbon we dig up was removed from the system and unused, whereas all of these examples that people try to bring up to deflect the human impact were already being balanced by the world.

It doesn't matter if we release .2% or lower into the atmosphere. The question is how much we can release before the model gets broken and a new one replaces it. Hey it might be a good thing, maybe changing weather patterns will allow us to grow more crops. The "doom and gloom" message that Al Gore had in his movie about civilization falling was about this condition, could humanity learn to repopulate the world if the weather patterns change before massive starvation kicks in? The problem isn't about the Earth becoming inhabitable, it's about how much our societies and the natural world could cope with global changes.

I hope that clears it up some, there are a lot of misconceptions being thrown about by people who have no idea what is going on.

That site agrees that water vapor is a greenhouse gas and is the worst.

So, now we know that the more active sun warms the planet directly with increased incident radiation and indirectly both by reducing low cloud and likely by elevating the proportion of gaseous water -- the most important greenhouse gas.

All I saw that disputed "global warming" was a theory that the sun does more to warm the world. Maybe it does but my point has always been that shifts in weather would have far reaching consequences. When we can control some of that change and make the transition easier better to be safe than sorry.

[happysadfun]

I dont' have that, but i do have a lot of data that shows that many europeans do not go to chruch, meaning they are not very religious.

Exactly.

Its an extrapolation, i admit, but much less than yours which assumes all christians are extreme in their views.

Yes. Very much so. Believing in the Bible, as 2 bil. across the world do, and as they have done for 1000+ years, is VERY extreme, while a relatively new therory on the world plane (evolution) is the non extreme answer (which happens to involve life suddenly being jacked into a dead cell which turns into an earthful of living things).

If you look at this study it clearly shows that only 20% of the surveyed group believed god created all organisms past 100000 years. If you can give me anything saying that 2/3s of the world believes in creation i woudl lvoe to see it. Also, how does 2/3 of the world believing in creation make it true?

This is a little tippier. But you have to realize: that's Europe. Progressive Europe. Welfare State Europe. DemSo Europe. Advance Beyond Traditional Values That Have Worked For Thousands Of Years and Try Something Completely New Europe. Yes, it's that Europe.

I use this analogy a lot, but thousadns of years ago almost no one believed that stars were made of superheated gas and that they were inconcievable distances from earth, but the vast majority was proven wrong.

Please state your point.

[Hoff]

I'm not saying this as to make a point but to rather just as a question. Why does it matter if any or all iceberg melts? The majority of an iceberg is under water anyway which means that it is taking up space. So what difference does it make if it is ice or water that is taking up the space?

[happysadfun]

The difference is that the melting part gives al-Gore something to b*tch about.

[Backglass]

I'm not saying this as to make a point but to rather just as a question. Why does it matter if any or all iceberg melts? The majority of an iceberg is under water anyway which means that it is taking up space. So what difference does it make if it is ice or water that is taking up the space?

You bring up a good point. Ice takes up more space than water due to expansion i believe...isnt that why your pipes burst when they freeze? This is salt water however...I dont know if that makes a difference.

[happysadfun]

The only difference is that salt water has a lower freezing point and higher boiling point. it has a lower melting poinmt, that's why we put salt on ice.

[jay_a2j]

jay, i now ask you, how does avoiding a potential ice age down the line that would cause merely an inconvenience to future generations justify allowing global warming to occur that would kill millions right now?

Merely an inconvenience? An Ice Age would most likely kill alot of people if not ALL people. That is one theory that killed off the dinosaurs.... iceage = no food. Global warming will not kill millions.... Al Gore is an idiot. Nukes will kill millions, disease may kill millions but the Earth warming.... no. Now go out and buy yourself an SUV, you'll feel better!



backglass wrote:

14% of the worlds population is hardly a majority.

4 3/4 (or 4,750,000,000) isn't 14% of the worlds population. It is in fact, a majority of the 6 billion on earth.

[DogDoc]

Well that just proved your ignorance, people were out there cleaning off birds and other animals which could no longer swim because they were covered in oil and the natural oils that form a watertight barrier on their feathers so they float were dissolved away.

Thanks to the cleanup crews hundreds of animals were saved, and the cleanup crews cleaned up a lot of the oil, preventing it from killing more wildlife and disrupting he ecosystem more than it needs.

aeron was referring to the companies that decide its cheaper to dump the toxic waste form their factories into the local river and pay the fines rather than actually get the waste taken care of in an environmentally friendly way. If you tihnk its a rare occurrence, look at farmers, thier pesticides get washed into local rivers all the time, think about the damage a chemical that's deisgned to kill things will do in an ecosystem!

Better get your own facts straight before calling someone "ignorant." Were you even born when the Exxon Valdez wreck occurred? Did I at any point criticize the attempts to save wildlife entrapped by the oil. No, I don't think I did. I simply pointed to the folly in trying to clean miles and miles of shoreline, especially by volunteers without proper protective gear or training. Mother Nature is a far better cleaner than we could ever hope to be.

Accidents happen, there are some irresponsible businesses and some effect will be felt in local ecosystems. But as the Exxon Valdez disaster proves, ecosystems have an amazing ability to recover.

Look up the definition of the word ignorant before you call someone that again.

[Backglass]

Very much so. Believing in the Bible, as 2 bil. across the world do, and as they have done for 1000+ years, is VERY extreme

You throw this number around as if it means something. Compared to the worldwide population of 68 billion+, two is the fringe.

People have been going to prostitutes for longer...does this make it mainstream?

[everywhere116]

I have two points. One about hurricanes and one about the ozone layer.

The worst hurricanes we have seen are not happenning right now or happened in the recent past. The worst hurricanes happened in the 1930s. The hurricanes are NOT rising in strength.

We as humans, or anything on Earth for that matter, could never destroy the ozone layer. Even if we put out thousands of times more CO2 we could never reduce it to the point that UV rays from the sun would be harmful. You know why, because the ozone layer is created by the UV rays from the sun. Unless we could destroy the sun (also impossible) we could never destroy the ozone layer.

[areon]

I'm not saying this as to make a point but to rather just as a question. Why does it matter if any or all iceberg melts? The majority of an iceberg is under water anyway which means that it is taking up space. So what difference does it make if it is ice or water that is taking up the space?

The problem with icebergs melting is it is wildlife habitat destruction. Not just penguins and polar bears rely on them but hey, if no one cares about them why would they care about some other obscure species?

Sea level rising would occur because glaciers on land melted, no where did Al Gore say an iceberg would contribute. It might not sound serious but a lot of mountains that had snow and ice all year just starting to lose them is a problem. The world temperature has been increasing, look at satellite pictures of the Arctic over the past 5 years, they aren't melting for no reason.

I have two points. One about hurricanes and one about the ozone layer.

The worst hurricanes we have seen are not happenning right now or happened in the recent past. The worst hurricanes happened in the 1930s. The hurricanes are NOT rising in strength.

We as humans, or anything on Earth for that matter, could never destroy the ozone layer. Even if we put out thousands of times more CO2 we could never reduce it to the point that UV rays from the sun would be harmful. You know why, because the ozone layer is created by the UV rays from the sun. Unless we could destroy the sun (also impossible) we could never destroy the ozone layer.

Have you read any reports on hurricanes? It doesn't matter whether the biggest ones happened then. The frequency of volatile storms was not the same.

You're right, the ozone layer was never damaged. People in Australia weren't under a hole and experiencing more UV penetration. They didn't have to increase cancer awareness and prevention. Have you taken chemistry, have you heard how CFCs and other gases react with ozone? Do you know the difference between ozone in the ozone layer and ozone on the ground(hint there is a difference)? Do you have any sources to support your claims?

[Backglass]

The worst hurricanes we have seen are not happenning right now or happened in the recent past. The worst hurricanes happened in the 1930s. The hurricanes are NOT rising in strength.

Having actually stood outside in the eye of a Category 4 (borderline 5) hurricane (Hugo, Charleston SC) and lived to tell about it, this interests me greatly!

Can you state your source for this info?

[happysadfun]

Very much so. Believing in the Bible, as 2 bil. across the world do, and as they have done for 1000+ years, is VERY extreme

You throw this number around as if it means something. Compared to the worldwide population of 68 billion+, two is the fringe.

People have been going to prostitutes for longer...does this make it mainstream?

68 billion? I think you mean "6.8" billion. And it's "6.5" billion. You were Indonesia's population away. And considering that Christianity is the #1 religion in the world, atheism is even MORE of a fringe. A fringe that's catching up, but still.

[areon]

I would bet you $5 there are more devout Buddhists than Christians.

[Backglass]

The worst hurricanes we have seen are not happenning right now or happened in the recent past. The worst hurricanes happened in the 1930s. The hurricanes are NOT rising in strength.

Having actually stood outside in the eye of a Category 4 (borderline 5) hurricane (Hugo, Charleston SC) and lived to tell about it, this interests me greatly!

Can you state your source for this info?

A Limbaugh Letter from the 90s

Ahhh...well he was poppin pills HARD in the 90's so you might want to reconsider your source. But I digress...

Are we talking lives lost, damage or wind? And remember, hurricanes dont just happen here in the US. The "worst" in terms of lives lost havent even been on our continent. Over a million people died in Bangladesh from a hurricane in 1970 for example.

The US did have two big storms in 1928 & 1935 that killed a LOT of people...much more lives than Hurrican Andrew, BUT it was 1928. Building standard were poor or non-existant and you couldnt exactly track the storm on the weather channel. Most, if not all stayed in their homes. And of course there is the famous 1900 hurricane that leveled Galveston, but again they were ill-prepared.

Be honest...I believe everyone of us has turned on the news or the weather channel in the last few years and said "Geez...ANOTHER frickin' hurricane? What gives?".

[vtmarik]

Ahhh...well he was poppin pills HARD in the 90's so you might want to reconsider your source. But I digress...

Are we talking lives lost, damage or wind? And remember, hurricanes dont just happen here in the US. The "worst" in terms of lives lost havent even been on our continent. Over a million people died in Bangladesh from a hurricane in 1970 for example.

The US did have two big storms in 1928 & 1935 that killed a LOT of people...much more lives than Hurrican Andrew, BUT it was 1928. Building standard were poor or non-existant and you couldnt exactly track the storm on the weather channel. Most, if not all stayed in their homes. And of course there is the famous 1900 hurricane that leveled Galveston, but again they were ill-prepared.

Be honest...I believe everyone of us has turned on the news or the weather channel in the last few years and said "Geez...ANOTHER frickin' hurricane? What gives?".

Not to mention that the hurricane that leveled Galveston encouraged the citizens to rebuild and take storms into mind. They jacked up the houses and pumped in dirt to raise the elevation and built a huge breaker wall to stop the big surges from doing so much damage.

New Orleans? Not so much...

[jay_a2j]

Very much so. Believing in the Bible, as 2 bil. across the world do, and as they have done for 1000+ years, is VERY extreme

You throw this number around as if it means something. Compared to the worldwide population of 68 billion+, two is the fringe.

People have been going to prostitutes for longer...does this make it mainstream?

68 billion????? Where the heck did you get that number? The world population is a little over 6 billion.

[Backglass]

I think you mean "6.8" billion. And it's "6.5" billion. You were Indonesia's population away. And considering that Christianity is the #1 religion in the world, atheism is even MORE of a fringe. A fringe that's catching up, but still.

D'oh! I stand corrected...too many zeros!

I never spoke of Atheism...but since you brought it up , 14.1% of Americans do not follow any organized religion. Double from 1990's 8%. In fact there are more Americans who say they are not affiliated with ANY organized religion than there are Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans put together.

Still....2 billion IS in the minority world wide...while scientists pretty much agree across the board on global warming, which was the point I was trying to make (and not very well it seems )

[reverend_kyle]

If I remember correctly islam is the #1 religion in the world.

[jay_a2j]

If I remember correctly islam is the #1 religion in the world.

Nope.... its Christianity.



http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[vtmarik]

If I remember correctly islam is the #1 religion in the world.

Nope.... its Christianity.



http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

500,000 scientologists. That's 500,000 people with way too much money on their hands.

[happysadfun]

If I remember correctly islam is the #1 religion in the world.

Nope.... its Christianity.



http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Yes, but Islam has the most people willing to blow themselves up out of hate for another religion.

[mightyal]

The numbers depend on your definition of Xian really. By jay's usual definition there are the 6 people who attend his church regularly. Now there are 2.1 billion! England in a Xian country - I assume that's 60 million of your alleged 2.1 billion; the overwhelming majority of it's population are in no doubt that Evolution, Geology, global warming and everything else you deny so blindly are absolute facts.

[DogDoc]

Not to mention that the hurricane that leveled Galveston encouraged the citizens to rebuild and take storms into mind. They jacked up the houses and pumped in dirt to raise the elevation and built a huge breaker wall to stop the big surges from doing so much damage.

New Orleans? Not so much...

Totally different story there. With the exception of the French Quarter, the city is below sea level. Worse, a lot of the areas have been built atop marshland by using landfill. The levees are great in theory but they only build it to meet the most recent storm. The levees in place for Katrina were built after Hurricane Betsy in 1965. They claimed success in 1969 after the near-miss by Camille (which interestingly enough took the same storm path as Katrina). Then years of mismanagement by the New Orleans Levee Board and the corrupt series of administrations of state government led to a general weakening of the entire levee system.

Having grown up there, I remember as a kid that every year they'd predict a "worse case" scenario whereby a hurricane would travel up the Mississippi River and then Lake Pontchartrain, which sits like a saucer of water north of New Orleans, is "tipped over" into the bowl that is New Orleans. In that case, no levee system would be enough to save the city.

The only reason why Katrina devestated New Orleans was because of the failure of the levees. Had that not happened, the city would have come out fine just like it had after Camille (incidentally, I was living in the city for both Betsy and Camille - I was quite young but I remember the storms well to this day).

[stinkycheese]

If I remember correctly islam is the #1 religion in the world.

Nope.... its Christianity.



http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I could've sworn I saw you claim somewhere that Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons(?), and Evangelicals (?) weren't Christians.

And this is purely speculation (and possibly off topic), but I'm willing to bet that a far greater percentage of Muslims actually practice their religion compared to Christians.