We got some good kids in England!

[jay_a2j]

These kids stood their ground! Good for them!

[Juan_Bottom]

These kids stood their ground! Good for them!

I don't know Jay, It was a religious studies class. It was part of their lesson. They weren't asked to change faiths or believe in Islam or anything, it was just a class demonstration. The article doesn't say that they were being punished for not worshipping Allah, but that they were because they refused to participate.....

Does anyone else see it this way? Or am I in the minority one this one.

[jay_a2j]

These kids stood their ground! Good for them!

I don't know Jay, It was a religious studies class. It was part of their lesson. They weren't asked to change faiths or believe in Islam or anything, it was just a class demonstration. The article doesn't say that they were being punished for not worshipping Allah, but that they were because they refused to participate.....

Does anyone else see it this way? Or am I in the minority one this one.

Well, I know. I don't care what class it was. Nobody should be made to worship anyone!

"The article doesn't say that they were being punished for not worshipping Allah, but that they were because they refused to participate....."


You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right. But whatever works for you. You might not think so lightly of it if it was YOU who were forced to worship a god. (small g)

[Juan_Bottom]

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right. But whatever works for you. You might not think so lightly of it if it was YOU who were forced to worship a god. (small g)

Ok, Jay, I just want to say this and I don't want replies to sidetrack this thread.
I went to a small school. Our High School had under 200 kids in it. But, It was also a small Christian Community.

My high-school science teacher was a leader of the church. He held Bible study in his classroom during lunch hour!!!! Myself, another Atheist, and a Jehovah's Witness all failed his classes rather than convert. I would have flunked out of high school if not for $1000.00 mail correspondance courses. I worked all summer to pay for them.

Now Jay, we might not always agree, but you know that I'm not dumb. I was only failed for being an Atheist.

And the kicker? He openly preached Bible while teaching us his lesson plans. You wouldn't have believed his 'interpretaion of the world's history bonus questions' on all his tests. 40 questions straight from the book about Evolution and another 40 "bonus" questions about creationism. And don't even get him started on homosexuals....

The most messed-up part was how I couldn't get ANY ADULTS to stick up for me. Not even my parents, who where Christian. The Jehovah's Witnesses parents moved her to another school, and my Atheist friend flunked out. I hate that teacher, I really do. Though this wasn't the same thing, I chose to flunk high school rather than attend Bible study.

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right.

Well, my thought on that is that she is just a child. For all we know she is blowing this way out of proportion. Personally, I really think that she is because the article never goes into specifics. All it says is "told off," and that could mean anything. Kids will be kids, you know?

And hey, I'm not trying to disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. You know that right? This is just MY actual opinion.

[jay_a2j]

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right. But whatever works for you. You might not think so lightly of it if it was YOU who were forced to worship a god. (small g)

Ok, Jay, I just want to say this and I don't want replies to sidetrack this thread.
I went to a small school. Our High School had under 200 kids in it. But, It was also a small Christian Community.

My high-school science teacher was a leader of the church. He held Bible study in his classroom during lunch hour!!!! Myself, another Atheist, and a Jehovah's Witness all failed his classes rather than convert. I would have flunked out of high school if not for $1000.00 mail correspondance courses. I worked all summer to pay for them.

Now Jay, we might not always agree, but you know that I'm not dumb. I was only failed for being an Atheist.

And the kicker? He openly preached Bible while teaching us his lesson plans. You wouldn't have believed his 'interpretaion of the world's history bonus questions' on all his tests. 40 questions straight from the book about Evolution and another 40 "bonus" questions about creationism. And don't even get him started on homosexuals....

The most messed-up part was how I couldn't get ANY ADULTS to stick up for me. Not even my parents, who where Christian. The Jehovah's Witnesses parents moved her to another school, and my Atheist friend flunked out. I hate that teacher, I really do. Though this wasn't the same thing, I chose to flunk high school rather than attend Bible study.

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right.

Well, my thought on that is that she is just a child. For all we know she is blowing this way out of proportion. Personally, I really think that she is because the article never goes into specifics. All it says is "told off," and that could mean anything. Kids will be kids, you know?

And hey, I'm not trying to disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. You know that right? This is just MY actual opinion.

Well your science teacher was wrong. And I'd of been the first person to stand up for you to him. I had a similar experience in college, it was my Sociology professor, he was a die hard liberal and evolutionist. We didn't see eye to eye. He was going to give me a D- so I dropped the course in the last week of the semester. The last time I got a D in school was in 8th grade and I wasn't about to let him do that to me because he didn't like my politics or faith.


But what you when through further reinforces the kids right not to be "made" to participate in a religious "lesson" that goes against what they might believe. Can you imagine if a Muslim student was made to pray to Jesus???? The ACLU would have been there in 10 minutes!

[Iliad]

does anyone else love the sweet, sweet taste of irony?

Jay and of course kids in a religious studies class, who were being demonstrated how to do something. Why is that you are pissed off about this, when in the US there is much worse segregation towards non-Christians?

[Iliad]

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right. But whatever works for you. You might not think so lightly of it if it was YOU who were forced to worship a god. (small g)

Ok, Jay, I just want to say this and I don't want replies to sidetrack this thread.
I went to a small school. Our High School had under 200 kids in it. But, It was also a small Christian Community.

My high-school science teacher was a leader of the church. He held Bible study in his classroom during lunch hour!!!! Myself, another Atheist, and a Jehovah's Witness all failed his classes rather than convert. I would have flunked out of high school if not for $1000.00 mail correspondance courses. I worked all summer to pay for them.

Now Jay, we might not always agree, but you know that I'm not dumb. I was only failed for being an Atheist.

And the kicker? He openly preached Bible while teaching us his lesson plans. You wouldn't have believed his 'interpretaion of the world's history bonus questions' on all his tests. 40 questions straight from the book about Evolution and another 40 "bonus" questions about creationism. And don't even get him started on homosexuals....

The most messed-up part was how I couldn't get ANY ADULTS to stick up for me. Not even my parents, who where Christian. The Jehovah's Witnesses parents moved her to another school, and my Atheist friend flunked out. I hate that teacher, I really do. Though this wasn't the same thing, I chose to flunk high school rather than attend Bible study.

You left out the one girl who was "told off" for not doing it right.

Well, my thought on that is that she is just a child. For all we know she is blowing this way out of proportion. Personally, I really think that she is because the article never goes into specifics. All it says is "told off," and that could mean anything. Kids will be kids, you know?

And hey, I'm not trying to disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. You know that right? This is just MY actual opinion.

Well your science teacher was wrong. And I'd of been the first person to stand up for you to him. I had a similar experience in college, it was my Sociology professor, he was a die hard liberal and evolutionist. We didn't see eye to eye. He was going to give me a D- so I dropped the course in the last week of the semester. The last time I got a D in school was in 8th grade and I wasn't about to let him do that to me because he didn't like my politics or faith.


But what you when through further reinforces the kids right not to be "made" to participate in a religious "lesson" that goes against what they might believe. Can you imagine if a Muslim student was made to pray to Jesus???? The ACLU would have been there in 10 minutes!

Religious studies is an elective subject here, and probably is in England. When those two kids signed up they should've known.

And they weren't asking them to convert, just to demonstrate how prayers work ONCE. If they forced the boys to do this once a week, say a sunday ( ) yeah they would have a point. But once in an elective subject as a demonstration? Jay take a look at the US first

[Juan_Bottom]

Well the good news is that he got sick, lost his legs, and had to retire. good for you for dropping the class. I never thought twice myself!


About the Muslim kids, Eh.... I would want to believe that our kids are better than that(not better than Muslims, but to understand the difference between learning something, and believing something).

when in the US there is much worse segregation towards non-Christians?

True that!!!!.

[Skoffin]

If students did not want to participate in a religious demonstration then they shouldn't have to, the teacher could have simply let them sit out and watch and carried it on with the other students.

And do we really have to play the 'my group is treated worse then your group' card?

[jay_a2j]

Religious studies is an elective subject here, and probably is in England. When those two kids signed up they should've known.

And they weren't asking them to convert, just to demonstrate how prayers work ONCE. If they forced the boys to do this once a week, say a sunday ( ) yeah they would have a point. But once in an elective subject as a demonstration? Jay take a look at the US first

If I was taking a "religious studies" course and was told I had to bow down on a mat towards Mecca, I'd tell them to drop dead first. I have EYES, I can see a person demonstrating it. I would refuse to do it.

[The1exile]

Religious studies is an elective subject here, and probably is in England. When those two kids signed up they should've known.

RE (Religious Education) is still compulsory for me, even though I'm not even in compulsory schooling, and always has been. Far less serious now because it's not an examined subject, but still an hour a week of talking about the da vinci code or basic ethics.

However, the main flaw I see here seems to be you saying you should pick your subjects knowing that these demonstrations are compulsory. Frankly that's a bit like saying you shouldn't sign up for biology unless you don't mind being buggered (hyperbole, but it gets the point across).

If students did not want to participate in a religious demonstration then they shouldn't have to, the teacher could have simply let them sit out and watch and carried it on with the other students.

You say that, but this is a class of 11-12 year olds we're talking about. The chances are, had some been allowed to sit out because of "conscientious objections" etc, the rest would have said the same basically just to try and get one up on the teacher and out of work for a lesson. Maybe its not right but I can see why a teacher would have a motivation vfor putting their foot down.

Also - guys! this is fox news, passing on a story from the daily mail? Of course you're not going to get the truth, or anything even remotely looking like an unbiased account, from that dual source.

[MeDeFe]

Also - guys! this is fox news, passing on a story from the daily mail? Of course you're not going to get the truth, or anything even remotely looking like an unbiased account, from that dual source.

My thoughts exactly.
But that RE class is a lot different from any I've ever had to take. Those were all very theoretical, more comparative studies of religions than religious education.

[joecoolfrog]

Religious studies is an elective subject here, and probably is in England. When those two kids signed up they should've known.

And they weren't asking them to convert, just to demonstrate how prayers work ONCE. If they forced the boys to do this once a week, say a sunday ( ) yeah they would have a point. But once in an elective subject as a demonstration? Jay take a look at the US first

If I was taking a "religious studies" course and was told I had to bow down on a mat towards Mecca, I'd tell them to drop dead first. I have EYES, I can see a person demonstrating it. I would refuse to do it.

And you would applaud any kid that refused to pray to Jesus or told his teacher to drop dead for asking him to sing a Christian hymn.....

[heavycola]

Religious studies is an elective subject here, and probably is in England. When those two kids signed up they should've known.

And they weren't asking them to convert, just to demonstrate how prayers work ONCE. If they forced the boys to do this once a week, say a sunday ( ) yeah they would have a point. But once in an elective subject as a demonstration? Jay take a look at the US first

If I was taking a "religious studies" course and was told I had to bow down on a mat towards Mecca, I'd tell them to drop dead first. I have EYES, I can see a person demonstrating it. I would refuse to do it.

Jay stop being such a massive idiot.

Religious education is manadatory for kids that age in the UK. They have to learn about all the major religions: judaism, xianity, islam, hinduism and sikhism. Part of the reason for this - please pay attention - is because it is important for these kids growing up in a multicultural, multi-faith society to understand each other as best they can.

My wife is head of RE at a large west London school. She has an MA in theology and is an atheist. For her, atheism is not only her position, it is the best platform from which to teach these five major faiths objectivelty.

When her classes study islam, yes all the kids get to wear islamic dress, see what prayer mats are for etc. When they study xianity (many of her students are muslims) they partake in xian rituals to better understand them. It's called 'getting an education'.
And yes, every day kids try it on in her class - 'i'm not doing that, i'm muslim' or 'nah miss, that's jewish, i hate jews' etc. They try it on because they are kids, and that is what kids do. But she doesn't put up with their nonsense. I would put money on the fact that these kids in this story - assuming one jot of it is true - were being dirsuptive little shits in that classroom.


Also, this is, as ex pointed out, from the Daily Mail, a hatemongering rag read by snorting racist middle-englanders who understand this about as little as you do. And Fox News - owned by Murdoch? Part of the NWO media conspiracy and a peddler of lies - oh, except where they reinforce your own prejudices.

[tzor]

Religious education is manadatory for kids that age in the UK.

Is it? Well it's a good thing that Secular France is taking over the rotating presidency of the EU then. Someone should write to him and let him know about all the religious stuff that is going on in the UK classroom.

[HeavyCommunist]

If students did not want to participate in a religious demonstration then they shouldn't have to, the teacher could have simply let them sit out and watch and carried it on with the other students.

And do we really have to play the 'my group is treated worse then your group' card?

Thankyou very much sweety

Religious education is manadatory for kids that age in the UK. They have to learn about all the major religions: judaism, xianity, islam, hinduism and sikhism. Part of the reason for this - please pay attention - is because it is important for these kids growing up in a multicultural, multi-faith society to understand each other as best they can.

Yes it is HC, but should RE be mandatory? When so many of your ilk are failing simple maths and english, in the name of "teh kulcharal luvin"...I mean, come now, what fucking purpose is their to learning about a bunch of dark-aged rituals - "oh buts ter is da efffniks liffin in are cuntry!!!!!"

Same old hot air, same old guy. f*ck the lot of it, I only ever used RE as a means to armpit fart and offend people. Job done, I guess.

Oh but of course, I forget HC's backgorund - " I iz teh HC, formerly a public school boy, who's parents ran out of cash and had to downsize to some obscure scottish hamlet, where i still live, whilst renting a shite flat in some shitty little london neighbourhood, whilst riding my beaten up old bike into work where I work a mundane public sector jod for useless, unashamed bitter people with no real ambition to do anything but piss my little panties whenever there is injustice, or wqhite people (particularly english) make some kind of cultural advancement."

Good on them kids, they're finally beginning to think for themselves, praise odin.

[suggs]

Religious education is manadatory for kids that age in the UK.

Is it? Well it's a good thing that Secular France is taking over the rotating presidency of the EU then. Someone should write to him and let him know about all the religious stuff that is going on in the UK classroom.

England is officially a "religious" country, Church of England being the official (Protestant) doctrine.
Our Head of State is also our Head of Church.
Laughable nonsense of course, but then, that sums up England pretty well.

[suggs]

Dull post by Heavy ommunist.
Cola rules.

[HeavyCommunist]

Meh, passable at best - as per usual nowadays suggs.

[suggs]

Meh, passable at best - as per usual nowadays suggs.

Don't be hard on yourself mate- it was better than passable, but only just.

[HeavyCommunist]

Meh, passable at best - as per usual nowadays suggs.

Don't be hard on yourself mate- it was better than passable, but only just.

Now now suggsy, we both know the score here.

Stop pussying out.

Say something to me that will really get me going.

[suggs]

Meh, passable at best - as per usual nowadays suggs.

Don't be hard on yourself mate- it was better than passable, but only just.

Now now suggsy, we both know the score here.

Stop pussying out.

Say something to me that will really get me going.

Why should I bother? You'll just come out with some predictable "Ooo, all liberals are pussies, but its SO hard to be a "radical" (ie, reactionary) right winger, cos i shock people by being racist, i say the things evryone wants to say but they havent got the guts, ooooo another racist post, how original".

You're great when you're not being political, an awful thicky when you are.

[HeavyCommunist]

Hehe suggs, pretend that is the case if youy wish, but you know as well as i do that I am fucking correct - funny how I can also sniff out any fucking paddy-rat spawn from a mile off...same old shit with you lot....teh ekwality!!"!...teh englush are killing everyone.....lets bomb englund...

Inferiority generated, how the f*ck did you labouring thick cunts slip through evoloutions tight nets? Maybe because they arent that tight in paddyland...

I wish you'd f*ck off back over there, and "kulcharize" your own fucking stock mate, after all, we're full over here, and dont need your type ruining our country.

[suggs]

sine race has very little to with anything, your just talking garbage.

[HeavyCommunist]

Quality song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cACfVGnMLJo