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GAS PRICES

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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Iz Man on Sun May 25, 2008 6:54 pm

spurgistan wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... And now the House of Reps is going to sue OPEC.
... What a gaggle of idiots we have in government. Unbelievable.
...

Who else are they supposed to get angry at? The energy companies (who are making most of the profits) who own their souls and their re-election funds? Please.

Or maybe, if they reallly wanted to get fired, they could maybe ask their constituents to maybe not consume so g-damn much. No, we get a gas tax holiday.
Actually, no.
The government is making the most on the high gas prices.
The oil companies make $.06-.08 per gallon of gas sold in profit.
For that, the go find the oil, where they may or may not find it. Retrieve it, move it, process & refine it, of course in the good 'ol U.S. of A. there can't be just one standard on the refinement.... oh nooooooooooooooooo......
If it goes to California, it has to be refined one way, yo NY, another, to Texas, another......
Then they distribute it.

For $.06 - .08 a gallon.

Now the government, between local, state, & federal taxes take as much as $.70 - .80 per gallon.
Now they do what exactly to collect those TRILLIONS of dollars? Nothing.
As a matter of fact, they do everything possible to keep the price up.

How do we lower the price of oil in the U.S.? Pretty simple.
Increase the supply given the high demand, at the same time work on lowering demand with alternative sources of energy.
How do we increase supply? Pretty simple.
Drill, drill, and drill; and build more refineries, something that hasn't been done in 30+ years.
Drill in ANWR, where the footprint would be less than .1% of the completely barren wasteland that it is.
Bill Clinton said no to ANWR because it wouldn't be worth it given it would take at least 10 years to see any real affect from drilling in the area. That was in 1995.
Drill in the Gulf of Mexico. Where our illustrious gov't says no, but that its ok for China to drill 40 miles off the coast of FLA.
Drill off the coast of California.
Increase the development of shale oil exploration in Montana, Colorado, and Dakotas.

While we do all this, build more nuclear power plants.
Build more wind & solar generating systems.

Supply & demand is a very simple economic law.
If we abide by it, we can solve this problem.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Pedronicus on Sun May 25, 2008 7:20 pm

Iz Man wrote:Supply & demand is a very simple economic law.
If we abide by it, we can solve this problem.


The only trouble is - the supply is running out, dick head.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby CoffeeCream on Sun May 25, 2008 7:36 pm

Iz man, where did you get your sources from on all that?
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Iz Man on Sun May 25, 2008 10:20 pm

Pedronicus wrote:
Iz Man wrote:Supply & demand is a very simple economic law.
If we abide by it, we can solve this problem.


The only trouble is - the supply is running out, dick head.

Ahh, a typical, ignorant, adolescent retort. Quite fitting for this site of late.

Good job !!

....and then some wonder why the quality of this forum has gone down the tubes..........
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Iz Man on Sun May 25, 2008 10:32 pm

CoffeeCream wrote:Iz man, where did you get your sources from on all that?

I wrote quite a bit.
Anything in particular?
I read, listen & watch all sorts of places.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Nataki Yiro on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:58 pm

We aren't running out of oil... the government just checks a tight hold on it because it's a money maker...
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:04 pm

xxtig12683xx wrote:3.63 was the last i paid in western NY, and that was 2 weeks ago.

can only imagine what it is now :roll:


-tig



I'm in western NY and about a week ago it was $4.01 here.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:59 am

Iz Man wrote:......How do we increase supply? Pretty simple.
Drill, drill, and drill; and build more refineries, something that hasn't been done in 30+ years.
Drill in ANWR, where the footprint would be less than .1% of the completely barren wasteland that it is.


Which, if the best estimates are correct might supply the US needs for at most, 30 years. As for more refineries ... In the short term, that will increase supplies, but it won't reall and truly make more oil ... it will just mean we use it up quicker.

Bill Clinton said no to ANWR because it wouldn't be worth it given it would take at least 10 years to see any real affect from drilling in the area. That was in 1995.


There was more to it than that. Rember the Valdeze? Alaskan fisherment are STILL waiting their promised compensation ... and some biological communities may never fully recover. The Alaskan oceans feed not only us, but countries around the world.

Estimates of the damage to other resources is also high.

Is irrevolcably destroying all that worth a mere 30 years (at most) of fuel? Then what? Then we have no oil ... again AND no resource.

Better to wait until the TECHNOLOGY gets better so it can be taken without damage.
Drill in the Gulf of Mexico. Where our illustrious gov't says no, but that its ok for China to drill 40 miles off the coast of FLA.


hmm.. I guess all those rigs out there IN THE GULF are giant fishing platforms?

You are talking about more rigs, perhaps. BUT, that just means we drain the pools quicker, not that there are more of them.

Drill off the coast of California.


Hmm ...again, I guess those bright lighted things off Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, etc. are just huge shipping boueys?

There is talk of more drilling off of northern California. Those are also prime fishing grounds ... At one time, so many salmon were caught they fed folks during the depression who could not afford meat. Now, even the lower grades bring in $3-4 a pound at the market. (smoked can be $30-40 a pound or more).

A LOT of work has been done out west to partially bring those fisheries back. AND they have been highly successful. There is still a long way to go, but many, many economists, biologists, etc. all say that the short-term benefit is far outstripped by the damage such drilling would do.

Furthermore, the shelf out there is a LOT deeper than in the Gulf .. or even southern California near the Channel islands. The Humboldt (earthquake) fault lies up there, too. This oil will almost certainly be taken ... eventually. But, again, the technology needs to improve.

Increase the development of shale oil exploration in Montana, Colorado, and Dakotas.

Talked to any Geologists lately?

The days of finding truly new oil sources is essentially gone. There is some small possibility up in Canada, a very few other places. BUT, what oil exists is pretty well known. We know how oil is formed, what kinds of rocks produce it.

The oil that Is available still is very difficult to process and get to. In some cases, it is just not technologically practical or cost-effective. In other cases, the damage that would be caused is just too great with current technology.

The REAL answer is not to "find more oil" ... the real answer is to get away from our severe dependence on oil all together. Ironically, this is one way in which the higher oil prices are probably good. Now, there is much more economic incentive to really look at and pursue these alternatives.

While we do all this, build more nuclear power plants.


being considered, but do the words "Three mile Island" ring a bell? How about Yucca mountain? (which is STILL not authorized as a dump...)

Build more wind & solar generating systems.


Hmm... say, maybe a company by the name of Gentec might do that out by State College, or another few projects down in Texas.. yeah GOOD IDEA .. which is why folks are already doing it.

Supply & demand is a very simple economic law.

Yes, but we don't currently have the technology to just genera new minerals. We are pretty much stuck with using what we have.

If we abide by it, we can solve this problem
.

No, because supply of oil is static. Its not like widgets that you can just go out and create more. Even GROWN resources, like crops, timber, etc. are subject to many more limitation than "widgets". That is why you cannot just apply many economic models that work quite well in "standard" businesses to natural resources. AND that is why we need folks educated in BOTH natural resources and business ... and why many colleges are now creating or expanding programs to do just that.

OH, and you forgot two of the most promising possibilities.

Geothermal. In particular, you can set up a geothermal heat pump type system for your house. IN our area, a $10,000 initial investment means almost no future heating OR cooling costs for your house. You need some land, but not a huge amount. You do still need a bit of electricity to run the pump... but that's it. (wind/solar anyone?)

Hydrogen. Iceland is using this. The technology has unfortunately not received a lot of government support. (unlike gas drilling, etc.) Using it for auto fuel would mean revampig a lot of infrastructure. Still, it presents a far more useable long-term solution than biofeuls or any of the other options presented.

Biofuels. We are alreay seeing the problem here. Crops to grow fuel are competing with crops to grow food. It is a "good deal' for people (of the world) only if the fuel comes from waste. So far, it is prime corn and grains. That is almsot as bad as relying on oil.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:13 am

jay_a2j wrote:
xxtig12683xx wrote:3.63 was the last i paid in western NY, and that was 2 weeks ago.

can only imagine what it is now :roll:


-tig



I'm in western NY and about a week ago it was $4.01 here.



I live in northwestern PA ... and it is 3.99 today. I hear it is $4.05 in Buffalo.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby got tonkaed on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:16 am

IZ if your willing to come halfway and accept national standards for the refinement and regulation, then i think i could go halfway on drilling in ANWR and off the coasts.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Neoteny on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:30 am

ANWR is a barren wasteland? Deluded much?
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:19 am

From George Will.

WASHINGTON -- Rising in the Senate on May 13, Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat, explained: "I rise to discuss rising energy prices." The president was heading to Saudi Arabia to seek an increase in its oil production, and Schumer's gorge was rising.

Saudi Arabia, he said, "holds the key to reducing gasoline prices at home in the short term." Therefore arms sales to that kingdom should be blocked unless it "increases its oil production by one million barrels per day," which would cause the price of gasoline to fall "50 cents a gallon almost immediately."


Can a senator, with so many things on his mind, know so precisely how the price of gasoline would respond to that increase in the oil supply? Schumer does know that if you increase the supply of something, the price of it probably will fall. That is why he and 96 other senators recently voted to increase the supply of oil on the market by stopping the flow of oil into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which protects against major physical interruptions. Seventy-one of the 97 senators who voted to stop filling the SPR also oppose drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

One million barrels is what might today be flowing from ANWR if in 1995 President Clinton had not vetoed legislation to permit drilling there. One million barrels produce 27 million gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel. Seventy-two of today's senators -- including Schumer, of course, and 38 other Democrats, including Barack Obama, and 33 Republicans, including John McCain -- have voted to keep ANWR's estimated 10.4 billion barrels of oil off the market.

So Schumer, according to Schumer, is complicit in taking $10 away from every American who buys 20 gallons of gasoline. "Democracy," said H.L. Mencken, "is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." The common people of New York want Schumer to be their senator, so they should pipe down about gasoline prices, which are a predictable consequence of their political choice.

Also disqualified from complaining are all voters who sent to Washington senators and representatives who have voted to keep ANWR's oil in the ground, and who voted to put 85 percent of America's offshore territory off-limits to drilling. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that restricted area contains perhaps 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas -- 10 times the oil and 20 times the natural gas Americans use in a year.

Drilling is under way 60 miles off Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies are.

ANWR is larger than the combined areas of five states (Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Delaware) and drilling along its coastal plain would be confined to a space one-sixth the size of Washington's Dulles Airport. Offshore? Hurricanes Katrina and Rita destroyed or damaged hundreds of drilling rigs without causing a large spill. There has not been a significant spill from an offshore U.S. well since 1969. Of the more than 7 billion barrels of oil pumped offshore in the past 25 years, 0.001 percent -- that is one-thousandth of 1 percent -- has been spilled. Louisiana has more than 3,200 rigs offshore -- and a thriving commercial fishing industry.

In his "Gusher of Lies: The Dangerous Delusions of 'Energy Independence,'" Robert Bryce says Brazil's energy success has little to do with its much-discussed ethanol production and much to do with its increased oil production, the vast majority of which comes from off Brazil's shore. Investor's Business Daily reports that Brazil, "which recently made a major oil discovery almost in sight of Rio's beaches," has leased most of the world's deep-sea drilling rigs.

In September 2006, two U.S. companies announced that their "Jack No. 2" well, in the Gulf 270 miles southwest of New Orleans, had tapped a field with perhaps 15 billion barrels of oil, which would increase America's proven reserves by 50 percent. Just probing four miles below the Gulf's floor costs $100 million. Congress' response to such expenditures is to propose increasing the oil companies' tax burdens.

America says to foreign producers: We prefer not to pump our oil, so please pump more of yours, thereby lowering its value, for our benefit. Let it not be said that America has no energy policy.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby jay_a2j on Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:51 am

jay_a2j wrote:
xxtig12683xx wrote:3.63 was the last i paid in western NY, and that was 2 weeks ago.

can only imagine what it is now :roll:


-tig



I'm in western NY and about a week ago it was $4.01 here.



Ok, just filled up my tank. $4.21/gal. ($61.00 for the fill up) :evil:
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby TeeGee on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:05 am

jay_a2j wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
xxtig12683xx wrote:3.63 was the last i paid in western NY, and that was 2 weeks ago.

can only imagine what it is now :roll:


-tig



I'm in western NY and about a week ago it was $4.01 here.



Ok, just filled up my tank. $4.21/gal. ($61.00 for the fill up) :evil:


In NSW Australia today I just paid $1.55 per litre.. so doing a conversion, theres 4.5 roughly in a gallon, so that makes AUD$6.98 per gallon; the aussie dollar currently buys 0.95 US dollars which makes our price US $7.33 per gallon
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Sackett58 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:53 am

Then again it is an election year where the voters might be so upset with riseing prices that they won't want the Republicans in for another 4. Makes you wonder if the Middle East has reasons.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:15 am

Sackett58 wrote:Then again it is an election year where the voters might be so upset with riseing prices that they won't want the Republicans in for another 4. Makes you wonder if the Middle East has reasons.


Wow, what an intelligent question to pose.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby jonesthecurl on Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:49 am

TeeGee wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
xxtig12683xx wrote:3.63 was the last i paid in western NY, and that was 2 weeks ago.

can only imagine what it is now :roll:


-tig



I'm in western NY and about a week ago it was $4.01 here.



Ok, just filled up my tank. $4.21/gal. ($61.00 for the fill up) :evil:


In NSW Australia today I just paid $1.55 per litre.. so doing a conversion, theres 4.5 roughly in a gallon, so that makes AUD$6.98 per gallon; the aussie dollar currently buys 0.95 US dollars which makes our price US $7.33 per gallon


Remember the US gallon is 8 US pints - of 16 fluid oz each, not 8 Imperial pints of 20 fluid oz each.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:54 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Sackett58 wrote:Then again it is an election year where the voters might be so upset with riseing prices that they won't want the Republicans in for another 4. Makes you wonder if the Middle East has reasons.


Wow, what an intelligent question to pose.


... Intelligent question or a demonstration of ignorance?

... Who, precisely, is blocking access to huge oil reserves within the United States?

... Sadly, most Americans are too lazy or ignorant to know.

... The "windfall profit tax" got shot down, btw, just heard on the radio. Thank God. Gas is expensive enough already.

...
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:52 pm

Nobunaga wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Sackett58 wrote:Then again it is an election year where the voters might be so upset with riseing prices that they won't want the Republicans in for another 4. Makes you wonder if the Middle East has reasons.


Wow, what an intelligent question to pose.


... Intelligent question or a demonstration of ignorance?

... Who, precisely, is blocking access to huge oil reserves within the United States?

... Sadly, most Americans are too lazy or ignorant to know.

... The "windfall profit tax" got shot down, btw, just heard on the radio. Thank God. Gas is expensive enough already.

...



I don't think that they wanted it to pass anyway. I think that ist was just a ploy to appear as though they were doing SOMETHING about the high price of gas. They don't care. If they did, they would't have even proposed a boneheaded punishment bill.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby heavycola on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:23 pm

Get used to it. I hope the price gets higher. Figure out some other way to travel. Drive small cars. Invest in public transport. Buy a bicycle.
Fact: Flagship stores in US shopping malls are placed around 600 yards apart, because that is the distance above which the average american shopper will drive a car rather than walk.* There's something wrong there.
The oil will run out, the suburbs will become untenable, and then the looting will start. Yeehah!

*see 'Coercion' by Douglas Rushkoff
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby tzor on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:34 pm

I'm only glancing at the news articles but high gas prices can only help the Republicans. (Am I daft? No. Read on.) The reason is that the democrats have in effect signed a deal with the devil known as Gore. To combat Global Warming they have to do a number of things, all of which will require higher fuel prices just as higher cigarette prices (though massive taxation) is supposed to lower our demnd for that particular vice. Obama's policies will all have an impact on the pump and the prices will only go up. McCain, seeing this pietard that the Democrats have hoisted themselves on, is more than willing to propose giving a "tax cut."
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:53 pm

tzor wrote:I'm only glancing at the news articles but high gas prices can only help the Republicans. (Am I daft? No. Read on.) The reason is that the democrats have in effect signed a deal with the devil known as Gore. To combat Global Warming they have to do a number of things, all of which will require higher fuel prices just as higher cigarette prices (though massive taxation) is supposed to lower our demnd for that particular vice. Obama's policies will all have an impact on the pump and the prices will only go up. McCain, seeing this pietard that the Democrats have hoisted themselves on, is more than willing to propose giving a "tax cut."


I hear ya.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby Frigidus on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:54 pm

heavycola wrote:Get used to it. I hope the price gets higher. Figure out some other way to travel. Drive small cars. Invest in public transport. Buy a bicycle.
Fact: Flagship stores in US shopping malls are placed around 600 yards apart, because that is the distance above which the average american shopper will drive a car rather than walk.* There's something wrong there.
The oil will run out, the suburbs will become untenable, and then the looting will start. Yeehah!

*see 'Coercion' by Douglas Rushkoff


It makes me so mad that we're wasting oil on getting to places Super Fast instead of spending in on stuff we need. Like, you know, plastic and computers.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:01 pm

Frigidus wrote:
heavycola wrote:Get used to it. I hope the price gets higher. Figure out some other way to travel. Drive small cars. Invest in public transport. Buy a bicycle.
Fact: Flagship stores in US shopping malls are placed around 600 yards apart, because that is the distance above which the average american shopper will drive a car rather than walk.* There's something wrong there.
The oil will run out, the suburbs will become untenable, and then the looting will start. Yeehah!

*see 'Coercion' by Douglas Rushkoff

It makes me so mad that we're wasting oil on getting to places Super Fast instead of spending in on stuff we need. Like, you know, plastic and computers.

Word! Computers make the world a better place and let us play non-Hasbro(c) Risk(tm) affiliated games on the internet.
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Re: GAS PRICES

Postby KiwiTaker on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:19 pm

Here in NZ the gas price jumped another 6c yesterday. We are now at $2.06 per litre :evil: . I'm just glad that I catch the bus :lol:
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