Yes, America has sucked!

[InkL0sed]

My fellow Americans, it breaks my heart to inform you that our country has not been perfect in the past.

Yes, despite all of our greatness and ideals, we too have had our atrocities. We have treated an entire race like animals; we forced them to work in the cotton fields at the height of the summer 14 or so hours a day, and whipped them when they did not work hard enough. Or, if we so preferred, we instead forced them to work in such places as naileries, where teenage boys labored by a furnace: again, in the hottest days of the summer. And when we decided that a certain one of our cattle was unfit for work, or caused too much trouble, we would sell it off without warning -- never to be seen again by their mothers, or sisters or brothers, or sons or daughters.

Our sense of American exceptionalism, the idea that the white American "Anglo-Saxon race" especially popular in the 1800's, was the driving force behind our westward expansion. Manifest Destiny was the belief that God had singled us out to settle the entire continent, that we were destined to usurp the land of the Native Americans. And so, yes, when we were opposed, we fought wars, we forced the natives west, or we killed them.

We have practiced eugenics. We have committed genocide. We have bombed entire countries to cinders.

Jim Crow. Father Coughlin. Agent Orange. These are names you should know as well as you should know Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Abraham Lincoln.

I am proud to be an American. We have generally been a force of good in the world; but I know our past. Stop the fucking nationalist bullshit, this idea that we have always been in the right, have never done anything wrong, and are morally superior to every other country. That is not the ideal behind our foundation -- that all men are created equal.

[/rant]

[suggs]

Oh, f*ck off. Its the greatest country the world has ever seen.
Imperfect, sure - but what isn't.
Compare the US to any other empire ever, and it comes out leagues ahead.

[suggs]

Footnote: apart from The Empire of Leagues, obv.

[Kaplowitz]

Oh, f*ck off. Its the greatest country the world has ever seen.
Imperfect, sure - but what isn't.
Compare the US to any other empire ever, and it comes out leagues ahead.

Atlantis.

[suggs]

Lets keep the discussion to empires that really existed, eh?

Otherwise the Empire of Suggs' Stupendous Schlong is a cert. contender.

[Kaplowitz]

Lets keep the discussion to empires that really existed, eh?

prove it

[suggs]

Yes, well done. I can prove everything that never existed, right here and now.
You knob end, I almost got annoyed then -yer lil' sexy wink saved yer

[chaosfactor]

We were shagging sheep, drinking n fighting, exterminating, crucifying, culling, controlling and crustating society, eons before we off-loaded our unwanted sperm westwards.
Truth is we got bored after we discovered civilization and handed it over to you for the challenge.
Keep us entertained.

[InkL0sed]

Oh, f*ck off. Its the greatest country the world has ever seen.
Imperfect, sure - but what isn't.
Compare the US to any other empire ever, and it comes out leagues ahead.

I agree -- my beef is against people who seem to think we are perfect, always have been, and get offended at any suggestion otherwise. They're pretty common.

PS. If you noticed, I started with "My fellow Americans..." -- obviously meaning I'm not addressing myself to you or any other European.

[suggs]

Then may your beef continue.
I like mine medium rare, btw.

[Snorri1234]

Then may your beef continue.
I like mine medium rare, btw.

With some mashed potatoes on the side.
Possibly some salad?

[Juan_Bottom]

Am I the only person in the world that reads? The American PEOPLE are some of the greatest people in all the world. They will send their boys off to die, if they think that it is for a good cause. But! no, the American GOVERNMENT is one of the cruelest in all of history. Don't you people know that it was recently declassified that the Gulf of Tomkin incident was staged? We BLEW UP our own patrol boat, and killed our enlisted men, all so that the American public would be on board to go to war with North Vietnam, for a PROFIT. The same goes for the Remember the Maine! incident, and most recently SEPTEMBER 11. And none of these were for a just cause, only profit.

And now, your government has bankrupted you. Do any of you even know what the AMERO is? Or even understand that the American dollar has lost $.60 of it's value since 2000? Our government is so bad, that it would hurt it's own people!

And if you want to talk about how America USED to be a racist country that healed itself, pick up a friggin' book. American pharmiceutical companys put vaccines and drugs in food that the American government sends to the U.N. Then after the food has been enjoyed by third world nations, we let them know that they were unwilling members of another test. This is standard before vaccines hit the white markets.

Just stop banging the drum about how great America is. We suck, and we have some work to do. Of the 50% of Americans that vote for our president 15% think that Civil War is inevitable. Seriously think about that.

P.S. The Amero is the new system of money that is currently being printed in DENVER. The Dept. of Treasury is already sending it to their largest banks(CITI, WELLS FARGO, ECT.). And when the dollar crashes and we are in a depression, the Dept. of Treasury will discontinue the Dollar standard and replace it with the AMERO. The AMERO will be legal tender in the U.S., Mexico, and Canada. THE FRIGGIN' TREATY HAS ALREADY BEEN SIGNED!!!!!!!!, DUH!

[Snorri1234]

And now, your government has bankrupted you. Do any of you even know what the AMERO is?

You totally missed the boat on this one. This was a discussion we had half a year ago, talk to jay about it. (Start a thread if you like, I'm sure wicked won't be such a bitch this time.)

[2dimes]

[shkerickgarbleradionoise]Multi hunter to isle 3 to check wan bottom's ip against Jay's.[/transmission]

[Neoteny]

I've expressed opinions recently that healthy patriotism has nothing to do with asserting the greatness of your country, but admitting the problems and being proactive in solving them. One is blind nationalism, the other is a healthy pride. It is not difficult to see where the current administration stands.

[Juan_Bottom]

Thank-You,
I'm Sooooo Sick of all these Nationalist morans running around with their George Bush '00 Bumber stickers yellin' "America is the best, just Listen to Toby Keith music!" I don't know what the atmosphere is where you all live, But I'm in Illinois 20 minutes away from both Iowa and Wisconsin. And its nothin' but Fox News watchin' sunday Christians. Try to explain what the John Walker Defense Initive is, or PDD 51 and you just get a blank stare. No one really cares. It's sooo frustrating. We deserve to lose more liberties than we have, and we will. Just for being morans.

And as far as missing the boat.... let it sail. I used to work as a settlement agent for a title company, and I can tell you, there isn't a smart broker in the nation who isn't putting his money in commodities now. Myself included. I just love to stick it in the face of Rush Limbaugh fanatics. It isn't funny now, but it will be.

[Dancing Mustard]

Of the 50% of Americans that vote for our president 15% think that Civil War is inevitable.

Yeah, but they're all gullible idiots who believe baseless internet conspiracy stories and scare-mongering, so their stupid wrong opinions don't count, and we're free to laugh at them for believing everything they read on teh interwebz (and throw rocks at them).

P.S. The Amero is the new system of money that is currently being printed in DENVER. The Dept. of Treasury is already sending it to their largest banks(CITI, WELLS FARGO, ECT.). And when the dollar crashes and we are in a depression, the Dept. of Treasury will discontinue the Dollar standard and replace it with the AMERO. The AMERO will be legal tender in the U.S., Mexico, and Canada. THE FRIGGIN' TREATY HAS ALREADY BEEN SIGNED!!!!!!!!, DUH!

Proof plz.

KKthxbi xxxxxxxxxxx

[Juan_Bottom]

http://www.amerocurrency.com

Dancing Mustard, Try this web-site out.

And you're right about us being conspiracy nuts too. But don't throw rocks at someone just for asking questions. Our government has been busted time and time again lying with a straight face. Yet still people belive what CNN tells them. I'm the nut? Blind nationalism is so frustrating.

And you're right, who cares if 30% of Americans are nuts.
Oh wait! Aren't you concerned that 30% of the people think they need to get ready for war?

[Dancing Mustard]

http://www.amerocurrency.com

Oh yes, well that certainly looks like a verifiable and official site. It's not made by hoaxers and scare-mongers at all, and it's most definitely proof that a whole new currency is coming really really soon... I think not.

Come on, show us some real verifiable evidence of people who are actually in a position to make this happen (or who can be proved to be in the know) talking about Ameros as a definite future plan (for example, current presidential candidates mentioning it in their campaigns, etc). No more silly blogs and novelty coin sites.

You seem slightly more rational than the conspiracy types we've had here before, but I'm not just going to buy all of these crazy shadow-government plots without some kind of evidence.

Yet still people belive what CNN tells them. I'm the nut?

As opposed to believing random blogs written by unknown conspiracy theorists? Sure...

Oh wait! Aren't you concerned that 30% of the people think they need to get ready for war?

No...

Why should I care what a small group of nutjobs think? They could think they need to get ready to greet alien invaders for all I care. Why is their stupid wrong opinion relevant, no matter how drastic it is?

(also, 15% of 50%, doesn't equal 30% of people... it equals 7.5%. Also, you didn't cite your survey, so those numbers don't even matter)

[DaGip]

Can I just say that one of the things that England did right was that they decided to free the slaves by BUYING them all and then just setting them free!

Not the Americans...we got to kill each other over the whole issue. So using England as an example, the United States could have done the same exact thing and saved a bunch of money, resources, and lives! The Civil War did not have to happen.

America sucks on so many levels, but looking at it from a progressive point of view, we really don't suck all that bad...that is if you are among the haves and not among the have-nots.

But with a recession looming hard over our heads, and energy prices shooting through the ceiling, more and more of us are starting to make the devolving journey into having not.

That's a bad thing, but it is a good thing, because all those people that had everything can really experience what the have-nots were going through. It is a bonding moment between two classes of people. The poor class and the eroding middle class are starting to form a union of sorts out of circumstance.

[Juan_Bottom]

Dancing Mustard,

You must be looking for big name people like Vicente Fox(Former president of Mexico)? How about you try READING? Maybe click your mouse once or twice? Because he(among others) is right there. I'm not gonna spoon-feed you.

Besides, that is what a conspiracy is. If the president said we need a new system of money, It wouldn't be a conspiracy now would it? But there are many high profile people openly discussing it(pss), Prime Minister Harper for example.

But to you a conspiracy is any news that mainstream doesn't report.

And as far as getting your news from CNN, are you dumb? Didn't you hear that they were busted out for having CIA "interns" working in the news quality control room? Mainstream media sold out a long time ago (yellow journalism, Remember the Maine!). Remember that they are news CORPORATIONS. There are a hundred stories a day more important than Obama/Clinton.

And who the hell said anything about aliens? You have a bad attitude, buddy.

That 30% is of Americans who care. I discounted the 50% who don't care enough to vote. And that's why i feel it's relevant.

[Juan_Bottom]

Also, DaGip, the Civil War was not fought over slaves. It was fought over states rights. And I think that you are ignoring everyday after England freed its slaves. They have been waging economic war on every other race(all of Africa, Syria, India, China). Otherwise, you are right that England did take a bold step...

I can't remember for the life of me if England, or Russia was first though.

[Dancing Mustard]

I'm not gonna spoon-feed you.

Ahhh, there it is.
"I'm not going to spoon-feed you, go poke around aimlessly on the internet yourself and stop asking difficult questions. Even though I think my theories are the most important thing on Earth, I'm not willing to point out the evidence to those who midly doubt them"

Never takes more than a couple of questions does it?
Come on my man, where's that footage or reputable website giving me some real evidence that the 'Amero' is anything more than a pipe-dream or speculative possibility?

Besides, that is what a conspiracy is. If the president said we need a new system of money, It wouldn't be a conspiracy now would it?

No.

But that's all irrelevant, as you're currently alleging a conspiracy to sneak a new monetary system into being against the public will. If you were alleging a non-conspiracy then your definitions would be relevant, but you aren't, so they're just obfuscation and smoke-screens.

But there are many high profile people openly discussing it(pss), Prime Minister Harper for example.

Discussing the notion is a pretty different thing from declaring that it's going to happen. It apears that fact has escaped your notice in your zeal for hunting down fictional bogey-men?

By the way, still waiting for that hard proof of this being anything more than a notional concept which people are discussing as an open-ended future possibility...

But to you a conspiracy is any news that mainstream doesn't report.

Wrong.

To me a 'conspiracy' is any of these wildly implausible theories which random angry men on the internet espouse, claiming that evil people (who they can't identify) are doing evil things (which they can't prove) for evil purposes (which they can't explain) in order to further an evil empire (which there is no evidence of) and to make us all slaves, all in absolute secrecy.

Also, please don't pretend that collections of shonky youtube videos with spooky soundtracks and the wild speculations of various armchair-rebels are somehow reputable 'news outlets'. It always amazes me that you people so insistent that we should 'question' mainstream news don't seem to have the ability to 'question' the far simpler footage and propaganda you demand we accept without objection.

And as far as getting your news from CNN, are you dumb? Didn't you hear that they were busted out for having CIA "interns" working in the news quality control room? Mainstream media sold out a long time ago (yellow journalism, Remember the Maine!). Remember that they are news CORPORATIONS. There are a hundred stories a day more important than Obama/Clinton.

Yawn yawn "Question your media!!!".

We do. But don't stop when it comes to questioning the mainstream; we also question the accuracy and reliability of shonky, unevidenced blogs and youtube videos. We're not so big on relying on the unqualified and uncorroborated hearsay of faceless websters, with equally big agendas to push.
Trust me, I've watched the "this = police state", "this = 911 inside job" videos, and I've read the websites. But most of it is just speculation, conjecture and hearsay... not accurate scientific proof (then there's the large tracts of aspersion casting and name-calling, but the less said about them the better). My mind isn't closed to facts and evidence or anything, but I'm not just going to swallow a whole clutch of random conclusions, drawn utterly illogically from the facts available, simply because a a patronising voiceover repeats pejorative terms at me punctuated with unevidenced allegations of "conspiracy", "New World Order", "etc".

Don't worry son, no 'Sheeple' here... we're all happily questioning what the news tells us. We just managed to resist the knee-jerk urge to start blindly accepting the (equally bullshit) 'Kounter-kulture' pack of lies in a panicked response.

And who the hell said anything about aliens? You have a bad attitude, buddy

Nobody did... I don't know what you're talking about.

Looks like you need to adjust your tinfoil hat, those mind-rays must be creeping though.

That 30% is of Americans who care. I discounted the 50% who don't care enough to vote. And that's why i feel it's relevant.

Discounting the 50% clever enough to realise that simply voting for the lesser of two evils is a futile exercise? Great plan Einstein... let's turn up the speakers and listen to all of those dumb enough to vote for Bush's opinions a little more shall we?

[joecoolfrog]

Also, DaGip, the Civil War was not fought over slaves. It was fought over states rights. And I think that you are ignoring everyday after England freed its slaves. They have been waging economic war on every other race(all of Africa, Syria, India, China). Otherwise, you are right that England did take a bold step...

I can't remember for the life of me if England, or Russia was first though.

Im pretty sure that Syria was never on our shopping list

[Juan_Bottom]

Dancing mustard,

I don't even know where to begin, you didn't argue with any facts, just concepts. Facts like Vicente Fox saying that NAFTA members have had a plan to introduce a new monitary system for years. So yeah.......? And I never said it would be against the peoples will. The American dollar has lost $.60 of its value since 2000. That's why everything costs more. There was a 6-nation sell-out on our money two weeks ago, which mainstream media ignored. I said that the new money would be with the consent of the people, after or during, a depression. The SPECULATION comes in when conspirist say that that is why Illegals are allowed to run wild in America, and why PDD 51 was passed. But I didn't say that. And if you think that an Amero couldn't sneak up on you, that's because the lesson of the Euro has escaped you.

You also spoke of the 'new world order' which I said nothing about. That is not a theory I even subscribe too.

And since you brought up 911, I can't believe that you honestly think that terrorists brought the towers down. That's just bad science, so yeah, you're dumb.

And no, when the leaders of North America begin openly discussing it, it stops being a "wildly implausable theory," doesn't it? A fact which has escaped you in your zeal for being dumb.

And is it just me, or do you NOT HAVE TO vote Republican or Democrat? wouldn't that be a good way to make your vote count? Maybe that 15% could get together with that 50%(the part that isn't felons) and vote for Mickey Mouse?

And you brought up aliens, I'm no Alien nutjob.