We childish CC atheists have a question

[Bertros Bertros]

Am I missing something here? It takes twice as much 'faith' to believe that we should be sinking trillions into 'combatting' global warming, than it would to believe there was a man 2000 years ago called Jesus.

Yes, you quite clearly are. I should imagine you would find it pretty difficult to find many people who would deny there was a man 2000 years ago who is known as Jesus. There really isn't a lot of doubt about that, it doesn't require faith to believe in a well documented and independently substantiated historical fact. It does take considerably more faith to extend to that man the honour of being the son of a omnipotent, omnipresent, interventionist diety, for most people considerably more faith that it takes to conculde we should at least be giving some credence to the well documented and independently substantiated (granted also refuted but then there are some loonies who would probably deny the existence of a man called Jesus 2000 years ago too) evidence that the planet is warming. That being said if your view is representative maybe there is money to be made in "Jesus Loves You but God Loves Global Warming" bumper stickers.

[got tonkaed]

Bertros i may have sent you a pm. People would be eager to know of your response.

[Bertros Bertros]

Bertros i may have sent you a pm. People would be eager to know of your response.

For those interested I replied in the affirmative.

[MeDeFe]

Will it be a formal occasion, or can we wear casual clothes?

[got tonkaed]

Will it be a formal occasion, or can we wear casual clothes?

Id say dress to impress, but lets face it, im probably going to impress no matter what i show up in.

[tzor]

Am I missing something here? It takes twice as much 'faith' to believe that we should be sinking trillions into 'combatting' global warming, than it would to believe there was a man 2000 years ago called Jesus.

Actually it doesn't take much faith at all for the latter, just a confidence in stastical probability that someone roughly 2000 years ago in the region named their son "Jesus." I mean it's not like that was a "unique" name. Now as to the question of the specific person which Christianity is based on; that's another matter alltogether. And the question of whether he was the "son of God" is still another matter alltogether.

The "faith" of global warming is, as it were, the faith that the trillions of dollars would actually do something to eliminate the preceived threat and that the benefit would outweigh the cost. And a lot of that is really blind faith.

[tzor]

I should imagine you would find it pretty difficult to find many people who would deny there was a man 2000 years ago who is known as Jesus. There really isn't a lot of doubt about that, it doesn't require faith to believe in a well documented and independently substantiated historical fact.

Playing devil's advocate here, but unless there has been new discoveries in the past few decades it is far from "substantiated historical fact." It is more like circumstancial evidence and second or third hand accounts which are vague at best. There are no official press sources, no accurate historians (the only historian comes from much later from a man with an axe to grind) and no official government records of a Jesus from Nazareth.

[jonesthecurl]

I should imagine you would find it pretty difficult to find many people who would deny there was a man 2000 years ago who is known as Jesus. There really isn't a lot of doubt about that, it doesn't require faith to believe in a well documented and independently substantiated historical fact.

Playing devil's advocate here, but unless there has been new discoveries in the past few decades it is far from "substantiated historical fact." It is more like circumstancial evidence and second or third hand accounts which are vague at best. There are no official press sources, no accurate historians (the only historian comes from much later from a man with an axe to grind) and no official government records of a Jesus from Nazareth.

I was gonna say that.
Oh, and the earliest gospel was written down in about 70 AD.

[Bertros Bertros]

I should imagine you would find it pretty difficult to find many people who would deny there was a man 2000 years ago who is known as Jesus. There really isn't a lot of doubt about that, it doesn't require faith to believe in a well documented and independently substantiated historical fact.

Playing devil's advocate here, but unless there has been new discoveries in the past few decades it is far from "substantiated historical fact." It is more like circumstancial evidence and second or third hand accounts which are vague at best. There are no official press sources, no accurate historians (the only historian comes from much later from a man with an axe to grind) and no official government records of a Jesus from Nazareth.

Erm, haven't you heard of the bible man? And what about all those Indian dudes who met Jesus when he wen't to learn all Buddha's tricks? Wow, the things some people say without thinking about it astonish me.

[Bertros Bertros]

I should imagine you would find it pretty difficult to find many people who would deny there was a man 2000 years ago who is known as Jesus. There really isn't a lot of doubt about that, it doesn't require faith to believe in a well documented and independently substantiated historical fact.

Playing devil's advocate here, but unless there has been new discoveries in the past few decades it is far from "substantiated historical fact." It is more like circumstancial evidence and second or third hand accounts which are vague at best. There are no official press sources, no accurate historians (the only historian comes from much later from a man with an axe to grind) and no official government records of a Jesus from Nazareth.

I was gonna say that.
Oh, and the earliest gospel was written down in about 70 AD.

Isn't it Tacitus who is supposed to be the independent corrobarator and he was about 30AD or something, is that the dude with an axe to grind? I'm sure I saw some roman thread on here where everyone was very knowledgeable on emporors so I'm sure someone will be able to comment. Anyway pedantry aside I thought Jesus was really called Harry so maybe you should look for a record of Harry from Nazereth instead?

[tzor]

Erm, haven't you heard of the bible man? And what about all those Indian dudes who met Jesus when he wen't to learn all Buddha's tricks? Wow, the things some people say without thinking about it astonish me.

OK that does it. I don't know if I can resist rolling on the floor with laughter any longer. Of course since I'm currently at work I suppose I will have to continue to resist for several more hours.

Here is an interesting joke, which book in the Bible was the last "book" to be written. (Assuming you count original editions which are not always known with cdertanty.) I'll give you a hint, it's not what you think it is.

Ironically the earilest description of the Eucharist isn't in the Gospels, Paul's letters pre-date them. The New Testament is not arranged in chronolocical order.

As far as I know the only somewhat independant (read non Chrisitan) account is from the historian Yosef Ben Matityahu aka Josephus who wrote around AD 75 - AD 99.

[Bertros Bertros]

Here is an interesting joke, which book in the Bible was the last "book" to be written. (Assuming you count original editions which are not always known with cdertanty.) I'll give you a hint, it's not what you think it is.

Why is this a joke? Anyway is it a trick question, cause the bible wasn't so much written as dictated, yeah?

[Frigidus]

Here is an interesting joke, which book in the Bible was the last "book" to be written. (Assuming you count original editions which are not always known with cdertanty.) I'll give you a hint, it's not what you think it is.

Why is this a joke? Anyway is it a trick question, cause the bible wasn't so much written as dictated, yeah?

The whole things a joke in my opinion. (Note: I'm kind of serious, but not really. Just had to be said.)

[tzor]

Why is this a joke? Anyway is it a trick question, cause the bible wasn't so much written as dictated, yeah?

Assuming that the authors are generally correct. (This is a complex issue for another day) then the last book written in the New Testament was the Gospel of John was written in the 90's (or later). Some parts of Revelation (the "last" book as far as the order goes) can be dated back to the 60's.

Most people consider Revelation as the last work in the New Testament when it is not.

[crapgame]

That being said if your view is representative maybe there is money to be made in "Jesus Loves You but God Loves Global Warming" bumper stickers.

Sorry to beat this one to death, but This is the ACTUAL bumpersticker on my old caddie.



Just thought bertros would appreciate that

[MeDeFe]

This one might be taken into consideration, but I guess apart from maybe the "Bumper Stickers suck!" bumper sticker which I haven't been able to find yet, I will steadfastly resist them in future.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Have you ever looked at your worldview, and, either on your accord, or with the help of another, changed your mind about a major aspect of your mindset? I look around at the arrogance that surrounds me and see that most atheists have had the humility and the courage to, not just alter a few doctrines of their life, but to toss out a worldview altogether. We have done this against the forces of social mores, familial obligations, and humble CC Christians who always have been perfectly upstanding, reasonable, and genial.

As a result of my change in worldview, my parents seriously think I am going to hell. The gravity of this thought process causes my heart to ache like nothing else I know. Yet I keep on, regardless of playground shouts of arrogance and illogic, because I know they are adults and need to handle their own opinions, just like I do mine. I'm sure many of you (including religious individuals) have had similar experiences with respect to changing your mind.

So, I ask more bluntly, "Have you ever changed your mind, or had your mind changed, about something as major as a worldview?"

I went through an agnostic phase about a year back. So yes, I have. And if I were convinced based on the available evidence that Christianity is wrong, I believe I would change my worldview. With difficulty, but I like to think that I'm intellectually honest, and I can't imagine holding a viewpoint which is contrary to what I believe is God-given reason.

[Zaqq]

Yes, I went from living a selfish, ignorant, and arrogent life to living as a believer in GOD THE ALMIGHTY!

I was in jail for a month when I made this life changing decision. It was due to clear thinking as it was the 1st time in 8 years previous that I was off the weed.

When I was on the weed lots of thoughts of our existence went through my head but all seemed ridiculas once my mind was cleared of the foggyness that weed so perfectly provides.

Does that answer your question?

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

No one ever said the truth would be easy to accept.

I am terrificly sorry to infringe on anybody's right of speech and to think what they want, but I humbly ask that nobody ever again be so presumptuous as to assume that they have a superior veiw into the cosmos than others because of previous experience. Your history may influence and craete your ideasand values, fine, that only makes sense. But to tell someone that they are wrong because you got off drugs with god's help is truly childish.
I should think that depression caused by his parents disowning him was what was being felt, not some all-powerful being pettily striking him with guilt for using the reason that you clearly beleive said entity gave in the first place. I am angered, but new and try not to step on your toes. So please think twice next time, mmkay?

[Snorri1234]

Yes, I went from living a selfish, ignorant, and arrogent life to living as a believer in GOD THE ALMIGHTY!

I was in jail for a month when I made this life changing decision. It was due to clear thinking as it was the 1st time in 8 years previous that I was off the weed.

When I was on the weed lots of thoughts of our existence went through my head but all seemed ridiculas once my mind was cleared of the foggyness that weed so perfectly provides.

Does that answer your question?

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

No one ever said the truth would be easy to accept.

I am terrificly sorry to infringe on anybody's right of speech and to think what they want, but I humbly ask that nobody ever again be so presumptuous as to assume that they have a superior veiw into the cosmos than others because of previous experience. Your history may influence and craete your ideasand values, fine, that only makes sense. But to tell someone that they are wrong because you got off drugs with god's help is truly childish.
I should think that depression caused by his parents disowning him was what was being felt, not some all-powerful being pettily striking him with guilt for using the reason that you clearly beleive said entity gave in the first place. I am angered, but new and try not to step on your toes. So please think twice next time, mmkay?

Don't worry, we've stopped listening to Gregrios quite some time ago.

[Gregrios]

Yes, I went from living a selfish, ignorant, and arrogent life to living as a believer in GOD THE ALMIGHTY!

I was in jail for a month when I made this life changing decision. It was due to clear thinking as it was the 1st time in 8 years previous that I was off the weed.

When I was on the weed lots of thoughts of our existence went through my head but all seemed ridiculas once my mind was cleared of the foggyness that weed so perfectly provides.

Does that answer your question?

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

No one ever said the truth would be easy to accept.

Ive done a lot of booze and drugs in my time , like religion they can be a useful emotional crutch , but in the end I just got bored with them. As I got older I simply learnt to chill a lot more and now find I dont need any form of stimulant, you however do so I win right !
I jest of course,each to his own is my motto, but am quite serious when I say your holier than thou attitude is utterly nauseating.

I'm a Christian and I'm nauseated!

Your zeal is great, but accusing people and having a holier than thou attitude is what makes other people hate you, Christianity, and religion in general.

Remember the old adage that came from Christ himself: Let he among us without sin be the first to condemn.

I understand where you're getting the accusing thing from. The part of my post that comes after the "PS" but I'm not accusing, only trying to explain. I simply planted a seed and maybe that explanation will recieve some genuine thought in the future.

As for being holier, I don't understand where you're getting that from. Not a single part of my post backs what you're saying. I've even read it 3 times over and still find it unfounded. I did take your comments seriously as I wondered the same thing myself but the only conclusion that I can come to is that it's being misread or misunderstood.

Inorder to clear this up, please point out the part where I seem to be acting holier.

[Neoteny]

You're kidding, right?

[Snorri1234]

You're kidding, right?

Probably not.

[InkL0sed]

Inorder to clear this up, please point out the part where I seem to be acting holier.

Let's try the whole part, for starters.

[Gregrios]

Would it be better for me to lie so your precious feelings don't get hurt? Dream on! Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it wrong. I admit the last part was an assumption based on my own experience (which would be true in some cases) but as for the rest, it's only speeking the truth. Deal with it.

[Neoteny]

Would it be better for me to lie so your precious feelings don't get hurt? Dream on! Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it wrong. I admit the last part was an assumption based on my own experience (which would be true in some cases) but as for the rest, it's only speeking the truth. Deal with it.

So are you conceding that you possess the holier-than-thou attitude, or just being an ass?