Kindergarten Mafia - Game over - Town wins!

[Clive]

Also, Clive if you were the real cop and doubted animoprh's claim why the hell did you not check him out rather than suddenly assuming he must be mafia on day 2.

He claimed my role so I already know he's scum I don't need to check him.

So you were sure he was scum by claiming cop but kept it all to yourself just in case. Uhu...

I kept it to myself so I could actually use my role to help town. If i'd died it wouldn't metter, cos you can see my role and lynch him.

You already knoe this so ga is probly scum here...

[Sierra_Leon]

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Announcement

lord voldemort has been poked with my big sharp mod-stick, so he should be posting soon enough. The same will happen to Skoffin, militant and mr. incrediball if they don't post within the next 8 hours or so.

If you know beforehand you're not going to be able to login for a period of more than 48 hours, please let me know. Failing to do so might lead to me replacing you with someone from the replacement-list.


Vote count

Clive - 3 (ga7, Skoffin, animorpherv1)
mr. incrediball - 1 (kalishnikov)
animorpherv1 - 1 (Clive)

Not voting: lord voldemort, nagerous, firth4eva, militant, sam_levi_11, mr. incrediball, animorpherv1, MountainLion

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

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[ga7]

Right. Hrrmm, this reminds me of an old spinwizard game where the infamous NES fakeclaimed cop on his way to a day 1 lynch as usual. I think I'll reread what the real cop did
Meanwhile a question to Ani that might help, as Clive couldn't answer it:
Could you give more info about your role, relevant or not, without quoting directly or using the same wording ie paraphrasing in your own words? (just making sure )

[nagerous]

Either way due to these revelations I think it better that we lynch neither animorph or clive today and both should attempt to keep collecting data in the night phases, it is clear that there is the potential for more than one cop in a game anyway. I mean look at fircoal's games there can be up to 5-6 cops in one game. Anyone on either of their bandwagons in my eyes can be viewed as a scumzor though I am still suspicious of Clive's closed-mindedness behind his vote on animorph and also the fact that he is suggesting that a kindergarten child has watched a 15 movie (I did my research)

[ga7]

Frankly the only problem I have with not resolving the situation now is that if one of them is scum (in a game of this size I still doubt there's so much room for other cops, even Fir for small games puts only one usually) they might gamble on the doc protecting the wrong guy and nk the other.

[nagerous]

I personally think clive is quite potentially an insane cop and hence lord voldemort is scum.

[Clive]

I personally think clive is quite potentially an insane cop and hence lord voldemort is scum.

What makes you think he's scum?

I thought he made a valid point about animo investigating the dead guy...

[nagerous]

Why not? Nark was highly active in day one and made a big name for himself, I'm not surprised he was investigated.

[Clive]

And I personnaly didn't know what kindergarten cop even was til someone brought it up as being a movie post my claim.

Looks like this kid did watch a 15.

Mod said i'm allowed to paraphrase flavor, so i'll try to.

Arnold Swarz is my hero.

I am imitating him.

My sanity is unknown to me.

Animo, what was the result you recieved on AD's investigation?

[mr. incrediball]

clive:


yesterday, animo claimed cop. you must have had these inklings he was scum then.

you can't suddenly decide he must be scum today, since you have exactly the same amount of evidence as you did yesterday.

answer me this, clive: if you are a cop, why the f*ck did you not counterclaim yesterday? we could have lynched scum instead of town!

if you're not a cop, you've just picked a bad fakeclaim.
if you are a cop, this is a major blunder.

either way, SFOSOD clive.

[ga7]

Grmbl, bag of knots that.
I still feel pretty convinced after rereading anyway. Things like this that Ani posted on day 1:

won't mafia normally claim vanilla?

Makes me think he's honest, taking in account he's still learning.

And I personnaly didn't know what kindergarten cop even was til someone brought it up as being a movie post my claim.

Looks like this kid did watch a 15.

Mod said i'm allowed to paraphrase flavor, so i'll try to.

Arnold Swarz is my hero.

I am imitating him.

My sanity is unknown to me.

Animo, what was the result you recieved on AD's investigation?

And putting aside the whole "didn't claim" thing, this is the kind of things that make me not trust Clive a single bit. The reference about the sanity, while in your previous posts you didn't mention and even disregarded any references to a possible varying sanity (either by your vote on Ani for his cop claim or your post about Lovo) seems way fishy and sounding like "hmm, what could I flavor my fakeclaim with?"

I guess all in all this is like a new challenge, either "how fake can a fake claim be" or "how much can you screw up as townie with a vital role". But remember guys, it's a long way to the top:

I have been told I am a cop from the moderator himself. Wanting a cop dead is FATAL error.

(just reread SNV1 and found it appropriate )

[sam_levi_11]

vote clive i dont beleive him one bit.

[kalishnikov]

My suggestion would be, do not lynch either 'cop' tonight, we'll have Clive investigate Animo and see what he comes up with. If he gets scum we lynch Animo tomorrow, at least then we can have a 'verified' cop in our midst whether he's town or not is yet to be seen.

QFE. Kalish's suggestion reeks of scumbuddy trying to find an easy way out. Why even wait a night for lynching Ani when it's obvious it would happen in your scenario? I really don't buy the two cops line of thought, as Clive's behavior makes it highly doubtful. Seeing Kalish jumped on MIB instead of Clive when given the chance and now defends him in a biaised way (as basing Ani's lynch on Clive's result works only if you trust Clive), I think we found our first 2 scums.
My vote stays, and SFOS Kalish in addition.

See I disagree entirely, all I'm saying is I don't think we should lynch a cop based solely on a counterclaim. We can have Animo investigate Clive and lynch based on that result if you like, it doesn't matter to me at all, I've got no insight into this at all, I just think there are ways out of this that don't involve us potential screwing up and lynching a cop.

I'll even go as far as to say FOS: ga7. It would be easy to pin me as scum and get our cop lynched, would be an good way to get a scum victory in this one, eh?

ga7, I agree with the scumdar ping on kalish. I wouldn't suggest limiting a cop's investigation because if the mafia know who any cop is targetting, that helps them out because they may have a way to mess it up somehow so we don't have any info the next day. FOS kalish

I hate to say it ML but this a dumb-ass comment, man. So instead of suggesting a target for a cop to prove his sanity/alliance we lynch based on a counterclaim and, potentially, lynch our only cop instead of giving him a day (with doc protection of course) to see what he comes up with?

You're either not thinking clearly or you are scum trying to talk the town into doing something stupid... And how exactly will the scum 'mess up' his investigation? Maybe with one of them new-fangled scum "town cop messer-upper" roles?

[kalishnikov]

The thing regarding the kalishnikov accusation is that it seems that he and Nark and ga7 seem to pick out everything he posts and stamp a FOS on the end of it. I find it hard to take the accusations seriously often now.

I agree Nag.

Regardless of what I do or how I play each particular game theres a group of about 4 players (Frenchie's the leader) that FOS the hell outta me every game.

In this particular game I'm not exactly sure how suggesting caution before lynching a claimed cop makes me scummy, but whatever... I'll be NK'ed in the next day or 2 anyway and it'll come up town, when that happens remember who put the screws on me if your still alive.

[militant]

unvote I'll wait untill we get some answers (or a deadline is somehow set) to lynch Clive if he's still on the choping block.

This sounds like you are just going to vote for the person with the most votes if and when a deadline is set. Fos Animo

[kalishnikov]

Uh? I didn't find Kalish particularly suspicious until now... Just his general "I reread and found nothing" behavior reminded me of his previous scum roles. But I find his line of thought about how to deal with the cop situation biased towards Clive, so something to keep in mind.

Or perhaps I re-read and didn't actually find anything?

For a few pages no one was saying much and there was nothing of substance to read back on, from now on if I don't have anything I'll just submarine.

[ga7]

In this particular game I'm not exactly sure how suggesting caution before lynching a claimed cop makes me scummy, but whatever... I'll be NK'ed in the next day or 2 anyway and it'll come up town, when that happens remember who put the screws on me if your still alive.

Dude, this is not what you suggested. You basically said "Let's trust Clive fully, give him doc protection bribes and a bj, wait that he investigates Animorph and when he comes back with a scum result we lynch Animorph then." How exactly is that cautious? Now you're backtracking and saying we could do the opposite for that matter, but the original post sounded quite different. Besides I don't even see how this investigation would help discern anything or add something to clear up who's who. So...
As for the persecution bit, I don't accuse you that often... While it's true I find AD scummy almost every game, so I think you're just jealous
Anyway the metagame bit about finding nothing is just that, metagame. It doesn't hold much water to me, but if you really want an excuse to lay lower fine, just don't go to hide in the basement

[Clive]

answer me this, clive: if you are a cop, why the f*ck did you not counterclaim yesterday? we could have lynched scum instead of town!

I've already answered this.

I wanted to actually get some useful results for town rather than sacrificing my role on D1, which is just what the scum want when they fakeclaim cop.

[kalishnikov]

In this particular game I'm not exactly sure how suggesting caution before lynching a claimed cop makes me scummy, but whatever... I'll be NK'ed in the next day or 2 anyway and it'll come up town, when that happens remember who put the screws on me if your still alive.

Dude, this is not what you suggested. You basically said "Let's trust Clive fully, give him doc protection bribes and a bj, wait that he investigates Animorph and when he comes back with a scum result we lynch Animorph then." How exactly is that cautious? Now you're backtracking and saying we could do the opposite for that matter, but the original post sounded quite different. Besides I don't even see how this investigation would help discern anything or add something to clear up who's who. So...
As for the persecution bit, I don't accuse you that often... While it's true I find AD scummy almost every game, so I think you're just jealous
Anyway the metagame bit about finding nothing is just that, metagame. It doesn't hold much water to me, but if you really want an excuse to lay lower fine, just don't go to hide in the basement

I should have been more clear in my original post, me thinks.

I only chose Clive as the one to make the investigation on Animo because of the latter's 'not as smart as your average rock' status. Clive's at least been around the block a few times, this is Animo's like third game so I tend to give Clive the benefit of the doubt here with Animo seeming more scummy to me then Clive, in this particular situation. Backtracking and not fully expanding on a thought are 2 different things...

I'm only suggesting that we don't lynch based SOLELY on a counterclaim. I don't know about you scummers but I'd hate to see a cop lynched on a fake counter... I don't care which 'cop' investigates who I just think we shouldn't lynch either until at least tomorrow so we can get a look at some investigation results first and not potentially waste our perhaps only cop.

Gah... I didn't get to smoke a cig since at my usual time today and went about 4 hours without smoking so a few of my earlier posts my have been a bit more trite then I was shooting for, I apologize for that.

<-- at me for being a slave to nicotine...

[MountainLion]

ga7, I agree with the scumdar ping on kalish. I wouldn't suggest limiting a cop's investigation because if the mafia know who any cop is targetting, that helps them out because they may have a way to mess it up somehow so we don't have any info the next day. FOS kalish

I hate to say it ML but this a dumb-ass comment, man. So instead of suggesting a target for a cop to prove his sanity/alliance we lynch based on a counterclaim and, potentially, lynch our only cop instead of giving him a day (with doc protection of course) to see what he comes up with?

You're either not thinking clearly or you are scum trying to talk the town into doing something stupid... And how exactly will the scum 'mess up' his investigation? Maybe with one of them new-fangled scum "town cop messer-upper" roles?

First of all, I never said we should lynch either of them (based on counterclaim). Where did I say that, kalish? You're putting words in my mouth.

Secondly, although clive investigating animorph may be a good way to prove his sanity, we don't know which one of them is sane and which isn't, or if one of them is mafia. If they're both town, one sane and one not, if mafia know clive will be investigating animorph with doc protection, what's to stop them from NK'ing animorph? If animorph is killed, we will know his true role, but he will be dead. Also if he dies, Clive can say he got the result of whatever animorph is shown in his death scene. Do you understand what I'm saying now, kalish? All I'm suggesting is that we don't let scum know who's investigating who, or they can mess it up with their NK or if they have any other powers...although I doubt it for a game this size.

With animorph and Clive there are two options for each of them. They're either lying or telling the truth. But there is a slight difference. If either of them are lying, they are mafia, of course. But if animorph is telling the truth, we know he's sane because he investigated AD who is proven town, and animorph said he got a town result. animorph can lie about WHO he investigated, saying it was AD so he can get an accurate result, but if he's telling the truth, he is a sane cop. With Clive, we don't know if he's sane or not, even if he's telling the truth.

What I suggest, and tell me if I'm wrong, is we don't lynch either of them, let the doc decide who they want to protect, let the cops decide who they want to investigate, and hope for the best. This way mafia can't use ANY info to base their decision for NK. If they try to kill either cop it's a 50/50 chance since they don't know what the doc will do, and if we're lucky they'll pick one and get it wrong.

[MountainLion]

I just noticed something...look at each of their results and notice the difference:

Ok i'd better claim then, my looking completely useless hasn't gone completely as planned.

I'm the real cop.

I checked Lovo last night and I got an innocent.

unvote vote animorph

It was town

Would S_L be consistent in giving out results?

[animorpherv1]

I'd think she would. But who knows? His role might be just at a certain group (Say mafia if he's town, etc etc.) and mine might be more fine tuned.

That is, if S_L is swithcing it up & we don't know any other cops other than ourselves.

[ga7]

Ok Kalish, that made a bit more sense. See, if you had posted it this way at first I prolly wouldn't even have a tiny bit of remaining suspicion of a smart scum And lol@addiction, I can relate to that as I usually yell at innocent bystanders when I'm out of tobacco

Seeing Ani is unreliable and scummy noob at best, I guess I'll have to give up on my instinct and let the cops matter alone. I agree that they shouldn't say anything about who they're gonna investigate... I still think one of them is scum so let's not be fooled if the true one comes up dead at some point.
Now the big question is, who to lynch.

[animorpherv1]

Might I point out that whereever there is a cop, there might be a framer.

[ga7]

Not really. Framer is not a role used often... A fortiori in a small game with a sensible portion of vanilla townies.