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Turkey and EU

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Should Turkey join the EU?

 
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Iliad on Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:57 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
Iliad wrote:No I pity you because you fell for the bait

And it's been a very funny, funny thread


If it was fun for you, think how fun is was coming up with this whole scheme.

Watch, he's about to flip his lid.


Haha...brilliant. You're so intellectually humiliated that you have to resort to pretending you were joking all along. So you're passionate diatribes about German Alsace Lorraine and the Franks, we can now safely say, are a joke. Unfortunately Jenos, I'm not flipping any lid. I'm just going to kick back, pour myself a strong black coffee, and eat a hearty breakfast, safe in the knowledge yet another of your arrogant pseudo-historical mockeries has been destroyed. Now you can go cry, and most importantly, read something decent.

Slightly vexed there nappy?
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby greenoaks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:13 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Haha...brilliant. You're so intellectually humiliated that you have to resort to pretending you were joking all along. So you're passionate diatribes about German Alsace Lorraine and the Franks, we can now safely say, are a joke. Unfortunately Jenos, I'm not flipping any lid. I'm just going to kick back, pour myself a strong black coffee, and eat a hearty breakfast, safe in the knowledge yet another of your arrogant pseudo-historical mockeries has been destroyed. Now you can go cry, and most importantly, read something decent.

i was of the belief the french didn't eat hearty breakfasts & that's why they have a hard time defending their borders. no get up & go in any of them.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:19 am

greenoaks wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:Haha...brilliant. You're so intellectually humiliated that you have to resort to pretending you were joking all along. So you're passionate diatribes about German Alsace Lorraine and the Franks, we can now safely say, are a joke. Unfortunately Jenos, I'm not flipping any lid. I'm just going to kick back, pour myself a strong black coffee, and eat a hearty breakfast, safe in the knowledge yet another of your arrogant pseudo-historical mockeries has been destroyed. Now you can go cry, and most importantly, read something decent.

i was of the belief the french didn't eat hearty breakfasts & that's why they have a hard time defending their borders. no get up & go in any of them.

No,we have occasionally had a hard time defending our borders because
a/France is so exceptionally beautiful everyone wants a piece of the action
b/Socialists fucked up our internal structures and this has screwed up our (usually excellent) military.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:26 am

[quote="Iliad"]

Vexed by what? The overwhelming ease with which I intellectually and psychologically destroyed Penos Rider?

Not really...
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Jucdor on Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:31 pm

Wow... this thread is fascinating. If ever there has been more clear evidence than this on how a nations were originally build on myths and how those myths still exist today then I want to know them.

If I have interpreted this thread right there's one guy who is passionate how Gaulish culture is somehow _the_ French culture we see today and is trying to prove that it never dissappeared. I mean ethnicity doesn't matter that much really and I give you that that you're probably right that the Frankish genepool didn't replace the Gaulish one, I give you that. Let's take an example which should probably prove that you all were talking about the same thing, but with a little different approaches.

Finland. Prior to 11th century Finns were not Christians, but had a religion of their own. Then in three crusades the Swedes christianised Finns by force, something that had already happened peacefully in eastern part of Finnish cultural area by the orthodox. So now Finnish culture swifted to christian culture, right? Priests persecuted anyone who still worshipped the old gods and who relied on the old ways and slowly Finns started to abandon their old ways. At the wake of nationalism in the 19th century where most modern nations and nationalities was given birth, the same happened in Finland. National identity was consciously built and a doctor called Elias Lönnrot made several trips to far away places in Finland and Russia where there were people who sang songs about pre-christian times. Out of those songs Lönnrot assembled our national epoch Kalevala (which by the way was an example for Tolkien - he wanted to create something similar to the English). Now thanks to Kalevala Finland became self-aware what we have been and what we are. The old heroes, old gods and old customs and myths found a place in Finnish culture - it's not that anyone would start believing in them again, but the old replaced culture in a way was reborn in the way that now Finns know what was before.

My view on things is the same with France and Gaulish culture. It was overrun by Franks and eradicated as was "Finnish culture" under Swedish reign. But nowadays it's revived because it's what they teach in France - that you're descendens of Gaulish culture. Never mind the inconsistency. Kalevalic culture did go exstinct for a while and the songs were collected from far away places (many regions aren't even parts of modern Finland) and when it was brought back it really didn't come back as it was. We're still christians, Swedes have put a heavy influence on Finnish customs, language and everything, but still those old things have a very important meaning for modern Finns. As one of our founding fathers said "We're not Swedes, we never want to be Russians, se let us be Finns."

Now the second issue here is even more strange. I'm sorry if I'm offensive, but do you Napoleon ler honestly believe that cultures aren't influenced all the time and that Alsass-Lothringen really is most strongly linked to French culture? Because if you do believe so then wow! I mean the region has been source of constant battles and you don't even admit that others have claim over it as well? Sure it's been signiciant mostly because it has (had?) plenty of both coal and iron, but still the least you could do is admit that it has links to German culture as well.

Napoleon Ier wrote:Look, I don't want to be nasty, but the simple truth here is that I am more intelligent ad better read than you. I'm not insulting you, simply stating the facts.

I don't know if you two have discussed things even earlier, but where on Earth do you base this? Things don't became facts by just you saying so. So what's your background then? Have you studied history in university (like I have), are you a professor in a college or what makes you so damn sure you're more intelligent and better read that the other guy?

This however is to my liking the lowest point you had:
Let me take you through some steps here:

1/You have to make a claim and stick to it.

No. That's how children debate. A wise man doesn't stick to his claims if he sees he's wrong. I think that the purpose of any intelligent conversation should be that after it hopefully everyone knows a little bit more. If the conversation has been really juicy and great, then someone could change his opinion all-together, but with a offensive conversation like this one, people are bound to just dig into a foxholes and stay there. Any insult you throw - even as a respond to one thrown at you - will make your opponent stick to his opinions more and continue ignoring whatever arguments you might have.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:09 pm

Well, I appreciate your concern for this rather amusing little encounter I just enjoyed with our friend Penos_Rider but I'm afraid you've rather grasped the wrong end of the stick. I have unfortunately had the displeasure of reading Penos' discourse on a number of previous occasions, and it is upon the sheer asininity of these previous diatribes or ramblings that I base my (rather incontrivertible, I think you'll find) opinion. Your commentary on change in opinion notwithstanding, I can see how my originally proposed advice to young padawan Penos may be easily misinterpreted. In order for a civilised debate, as I have been taught to understand the term by the excellent and traditional Mace British parliamentary procedural guidelines, to occur, it is absolutely vital for the proposition's definition of the House's motion to stay constant, let alone the necessity for it's wording and indeed entire point to be diluted mutated arbitrarily upon their whim half-way through the proceedings. Should, once these have been concluded, the proposition be swayed, it would be most judicious for the inetllectual good of the House that they disclose how and why, but they cannt very well change entirely the meaning of the motion during the course of actual debate, n'est-ce pas? Such was the original intention of my statement. I am sorry it has caused confusion on your part and I do hope it will not keep us from entertaining a good relationship in the future. I am sure that your beration of the outlined method of debate as "childish" is due to a mere cultural gap, and that you, sir, would not dream of referring to good, orderly, British debate which even this poor young expatriated Frenchman has come to respect and admire in any negative way.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Bonne soirée Monsieur.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Iliad on Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:59 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Iliad wrote:
Vexed by what? The overwhelming ease with which I intellectually and psychologically destroyed Penos Rider?

Not really...

Nice quoting btw

Just accept that you took the bait and this is a very funny thread
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Iliad on Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:16 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Well, I appreciate your concern for this rather amusing little encounter I just enjoyed with our friend Penos_Rider but I'm afraid you've rather grasped the wrong end of the stick. I have unfortunately had the displeasure of reading Penos' discourse on a number of previous occasions, and it is upon the sheer asininity of these previous diatribes or ramblings that I base my (rather incontrivertible, I think you'll find) opinion. Your commentary on change in opinion notwithstanding, I can see how my originally proposed advice to young padawan Penos may be easily misinterpreted. In order for a civilised debate, as I have been taught to understand the term by the excellent and traditional Mace British parliamentary procedural guidelines, to occur, it is absolutely vital for the proposition's definition of the House's motion to stay constant, let alone the necessity for it's wording and indeed entire point to be diluted mutated arbitrarily upon their whim half-way through the proceedings. Should, once these have been concluded, the proposition be swayed, it would be most judicious for the inetllectual good of the House that they disclose how and why, but they cannt very well change entirely the meaning of the motion during the course of actual debate, n'est-ce pas? Such was the original intention of my statement. I am sorry it has caused confusion on your part and I do hope it will not keep us from entertaining a good relationship in the future. I am sure that your beration of the outlined method of debate as "childish" is due to a mere cultural gap, and that you, sir, would not dream of referring to good, orderly, British debate which even this poor young expatriated Frenchman has come to respect and admire in any negative way.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Bonne soirée Monsieur.


Nappy just a question why are you so in love with thesauruses? I haven't seen one post in which you don't try to somehow show off your thesaurus skills
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Dancing Mustard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:26 am

So did we import those Turkeys into the union yet or what?
All this fucking bird-flu bs is playing hell with free trade.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:09 am

Iliad wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:Well, I appreciate your concern for this rather amusing little encounter I just enjoyed with our friend Penos_Rider but I'm afraid you've rather grasped the wrong end of the stick. I have unfortunately had the displeasure of reading Penos' discourse on a number of previous occasions, and it is upon the sheer asininity of these previous diatribes or ramblings that I base my (rather incontrivertible, I think you'll find) opinion. Your commentary on change in opinion notwithstanding, I can see how my originally proposed advice to young padawan Penos may be easily misinterpreted. In order for a civilised debate, as I have been taught to understand the term by the excellent and traditional Mace British parliamentary procedural guidelines, to occur, it is absolutely vital for the proposition's definition of the House's motion to stay constant, let alone the necessity for it's wording and indeed entire point to be diluted mutated arbitrarily upon their whim half-way through the proceedings. Should, once these have been concluded, the proposition be swayed, it would be most judicious for the inetllectual good of the House that they disclose how and why, but they cannt very well change entirely the meaning of the motion during the course of actual debate, n'est-ce pas? Such was the original intention of my statement. I am sorry it has caused confusion on your part and I do hope it will not keep us from entertaining a good relationship in the future. I am sure that your beration of the outlined method of debate as "childish" is due to a mere cultural gap, and that you, sir, would not dream of referring to good, orderly, British debate which even this poor young expatriated Frenchman has come to respect and admire in any negative way.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Bonne soirée Monsieur.


Nappy just a question why are you so in love with thesauruses? I haven't seen one post in which you don't try to somehow show off your thesaurus skills


I'm not. Believe it or not, I am actually able to write relative clauses whilst maintaining correct syntax, and to use words with over three syllables without misspelling them.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Jucdor on Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:15 pm

Napoleon Ier wrote: In order for a civilised debate, as I have been taught to understand the term by the excellent and traditional Mace British parliamentary procedural guidelines, to occur, it is absolutely vital for the proposition's definition of the House's motion to stay constant, let alone the necessity for it's wording and indeed entire point to be diluted mutated arbitrarily upon their whim half-way through the proceedings. Should, once these have been concluded, the proposition be swayed, it would be most judicious for the inetllectual good of the House that they disclose how and why, but they cannt very well change entirely the meaning of the motion during the course of actual debate, n'est-ce pas? Such was the original intention of my statement. I am sorry it has caused confusion on your part and I do hope it will not keep us from entertaining a good relationship in the future. I am sure that your beration of the outlined method of debate as "childish" is due to a mere cultural gap, and that you, sir, would not dream of referring to good, orderly, British debate which even this poor young expatriated Frenchman has come to respect and admire in any negative way.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Bonne soirée Monsieur.


Aaa, you were talking about competition debating. I'm sure even the British haven't meant the guidelines to be followed in such an offensive way as you've shown with even this post where you tried to patrionise me in not se thinly veiled fashion. I believe more in good old way that arguments fight, not people. However what say you about my other arguments? Haven't you all shared the same view, but different angles? Niin ja ponne soiree sullekkin vaan. Kyllä tässä muutkin kieliä osaa. Jag är säker att du kan tala bara två språket. Ist das nicht richtig? Wô kán wû wén nî kán er.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:12 pm

Jucdor wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote: In order for a civilised debate, as I have been taught to understand the term by the excellent and traditional Mace British parliamentary procedural guidelines, to occur, it is absolutely vital for the proposition's definition of the House's motion to stay constant, let alone the necessity for it's wording and indeed entire point to be diluted mutated arbitrarily upon their whim half-way through the proceedings. Should, once these have been concluded, the proposition be swayed, it would be most judicious for the inetllectual good of the House that they disclose how and why, but they cannt very well change entirely the meaning of the motion during the course of actual debate, n'est-ce pas? Such was the original intention of my statement. I am sorry it has caused confusion on your part and I do hope it will not keep us from entertaining a good relationship in the future. I am sure that your beration of the outlined method of debate as "childish" is due to a mere cultural gap, and that you, sir, would not dream of referring to good, orderly, British debate which even this poor young expatriated Frenchman has come to respect and admire in any negative way.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Bonne soirée Monsieur.


Aaa, you were talking about competition debating. I'm sure even the British haven't meant the guidelines to be followed in such an offensive way as you've shown with even this post where you tried to patrionise me in not se thinly veiled fashion. I believe more in good old way that arguments fight, not people. However what say you about my other arguments? Haven't you all shared the same view, but different angles? Niin ja ponne soiree sullekkin vaan. Kyllä tässä muutkin kieliä osaa. Jag är säker att du kan tala bara två språket. Ist das nicht richtig? Wô kán wû wén nî kán er.


Patronise? Moi?
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby muy_thaiguy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:21 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:So did we import those Turkeys into the union yet or what?
All this fucking bird-flu bs is playing hell with free trade.

No, they're still nervous about Thanksgiving over here (someone misheard an American saying that we eat Turkeys every Thanksgiving, thinking that we eat Turks or something like that). Plus I don't think they have any :o pubs! :shock:
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Jenos Ridan on Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:49 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Haha...brilliant. You're so intellectually humiliated that you have to resort to pretending you were joking all along. So you're passionate diatribes about German Alsace Lorraine and the Franks, we can now safely say, are a joke. Unfortunately Jenos, I'm not flipping any lid. I'm just going to kick back, pour myself a strong black coffee, and eat a hearty breakfast, safe in the knowledge yet another of your arrogant pseudo-historical mockeries has been destroyed. Now you can go cry, and most importantly, read something decent.


:lol: Wow, you are so abyssmally obtuse that it is funny in it's own right. I have to say Naps, your sheer arrogance, coupled with a staggering case of dimwittedness, makes of an excellent butt of a joke :o . And you still have absolutely no tact. =D> That is simply gravy.

Behold, my fellow posters, here dwells an unfathomably obtuse, tactless boor; the butt of my immense intellectual prank. His greatest folly, taking the bait. =D>

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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Napoleon Ier on Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:04 pm

Jenos Ridan wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:Haha...brilliant. You're so intellectually humiliated that you have to resort to pretending you were joking all along. So you're passionate diatribes about German Alsace Lorraine and the Franks, we can now safely say, are a joke. Unfortunately Jenos, I'm not flipping any lid. I'm just going to kick back, pour myself a strong black coffee, and eat a hearty breakfast, safe in the knowledge yet another of your arrogant pseudo-historical mockeries has been destroyed. Now you can go cry, and most importantly, read something decent.

intellectual


Don't flatter yerself. Seriously though, being humiliated in an argument and then unable to just admit you were arguing bollocks and not knowing anything about the actual topic of debate? At least be man enough to admit you were mistaken...
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Re: Re:

Postby Jenos Ridan on Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:24 am

:roll:

Naps, assuming I was serious, why didn't I start a whole new thread on the topic? A better question is, what was it that this all got started from. I was started when you had said, and I quote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:
The Mohammedans belong in the desert where they came from, not crawling all over one of the great triumphs of Christian-Roman culture. Constantinople FTW.


To which I asked:

Jenos Ridan wrote:
Somehow, I feel I could say that with more tact.

Am I wrong?


The reply I got was:

Snorri1234 wrote:
Jenos Ridan" wrote:
Well, am I? I feel that anybody could have said the same with more tact. Somehow, the bluntness of this comment bothers me.


Honestly I think you could.

Your comments don't infuriate me as much as Nappy's do. They don't show as much ignorance but rather a radically different way of thinking.

Besides, you listen to us instead of making us out for "whatever-nappy-found-in-his-thesaurus-now".


At which point, you initiated this whole charade with a massive bug in your arse:

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Oh do shut up, you insufferable Thrasymachus.

Jenos, stop this stupid smear campaign. We all know why it is...but

"Vous n'aurez pas, l'Alsace et la Lorraine,
et malgré vous, nous resterons français!
Vous avez pu, germaniser la plaine,
mais notre coeur, vous ne l'aurez jamais!"


As we can see from the French text, you started whole discussion, assuming that is what I was getting at. As it is, that was never the case. Your arrogance was first proved here. I proceeded from there, and now here we are.

If you are still too dence to acknowledge that you have be had, well, that is you problem.

I hope every one here has enjoyed this as much as I. He is so full of himself that he cannot even use my proper screen name, having confused me with someone else. Too proud to realize his numerous mistakes, I deem it best to leave this self-important twit to simmer in himself.
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Re: Turkey and EU

Postby Jenos Ridan on Sun May 04, 2008 12:25 am

:D

And so, it is done.

This has been entertaining.

And now, it is over.

Cheers.
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