Is Missing 3 Turns Trivial?

[wrestler1ump]

Hello wrestler1ump,

Feedback, if used properly, can be an excellent resource to gauge reputation. If abused, it quickly becomes useless. The feedback quoted below is inappropriate and has been deleted.

feedback you left for Cash_Box wrote:
2008-02-24 03:51:02 - Cash_Box missed a turn
2008-02-24 04:03:46 - Cash_Box missed a turn
2008-02-24 04:09:27 - Cash_Box missed a turn

Reason for deletion: trivial

If you think you can rectify the problem by editing this feedback, please do so from the Leave Feedback page and then contact the Feedback Moderation department via the Help page. We may restore the feedback if we feel it is appropriate, although restored feedbacks may be made Neutral at our discretion.

Please be sure to follow the guidelines on the Leave Feedback page when leaving feedback. You should review all the feedback you have left to date and make sure that it meets the guidelines. Continued abuse of the feedback system may result in further disciplinary action.

Regards,
The Conquer Club

Hello wrestler1ump,

Feedback, if used properly, can be an excellent resource to gauge reputation. If abused, it quickly becomes useless. The feedback quoted below is inappropriate and has been deleted.

feedback you left for kendoh99 wrote:
2008-02-24 22:27:05 - kendoh99 missed a turn
2008-02-24 23:24:33 - kendoh99 missed a turn
2008-02-24 23:34:33 - kendoh99 missed a turn

Reason for deletion: trivial

If you think you can rectify the problem by editing this feedback, please do so from the Leave Feedback page and then contact the Feedback Moderation department via the Help page. We may restore the feedback if we feel it is appropriate, although restored feedbacks may be made Neutral at our discretion.

Please be sure to follow the guidelines on the Leave Feedback page when leaving feedback. You should review all the feedback you have left to date and make sure that it meets the guidelines. Continued abuse of the feedback system may result in further disciplinary action.

Regards,
The Conquer Club

Hello wrestler1ump,

Feedback, if used properly, can be an excellent resource to gauge reputation. If abused, it quickly becomes useless. The feedback quoted below is inappropriate and has been deleted.

feedback you left for KikeDaniel wrote:
2008-03-07 04:04:48 - KikeDaniel missed a turn
2008-03-07 04:26:02 - KikeDaniel missed a turn
2008-03-07 04:35:27 - KikeDaniel missed a turn

Reason for deletion: trivial

If you think you can rectify the problem by editing this feedback, please do so from the Leave Feedback page and then contact the Feedback Moderation department via the Help page. We may restore the feedback if we feel it is appropriate, although restored feedbacks may be made Neutral at our discretion.

Please be sure to follow the guidelines on the Leave Feedback page when leaving feedback. You should review all the feedback you have left to date and make sure that it meets the guidelines. Continued abuse of the feedback system may result in further disciplinary action.

Regards,
The Conquer Club

Apparently one can now miss 3 turns in a speed game and get away without a negative. I'm not trying to single anyone out here, it just seems a bit much to me to let people miss 3 turns.

[Plutoman]

In my opinion, someone deadbeating is worth a negative.

A speed game is slightly less bad, but still, you should be prepared to stay at the comp for a while.

If you have to leave at all, at least leave a note saying you might deadbeat.

[Ditocoaf]

I think leaving a negative for missing 3 turns is perfectly acceptable. If I was going into a game with someone, I would want to know if they made a habit of missing turns. Maybe missing 3 turns in one game can be considered trivial, but 1 negative is also trivial. They can't add up if not even one is allowed.

[wicked]

The fact that you miss so many turns in your game wrestler shows that you don't have a problem with this behavior.

[GabonX]

The person that a negative is coming from shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not they can leave negatives on a given topic. Feedback is a way to warn other players of someone's tendencies so if you deleted his feedback on the grounds that he too missed turns you are doing a disservice to the rest of the site.

I would say missing 3 turns, waisting 15 minutes of the other players time, in a speed game is definately worth a negative.

[wicked]

In some ways, it is taken into consideration. However, that's not why his were deleted; I was just pointing out his hypocrisy. 3 random turns missed have never been legit reason to leave feedback; that's why they were deleted. Deadbeating is however.

Feedback should be reserved for things you disagree with or have a problem with. Wrestler was just fishing for any reason to leave a negative.

[Ditocoaf]

I always thought that the purpose of feedback was this:

When I start a game, I can use feedback know beforehand some behaviors of potential competitors/teammates that might affect my enjoyment of that game. If a player that misses three turns affects the overall enjoyment of the game, then that information should be considered legitimate feedback. Even if wrestler is hypocritical about it; I would want to know that about wrestler as well.

[GabonX]

Well looking at wrestler1ump's record I can see where you are coming from wicked, but I still know that i would NEVER want to play with someone in a speed game who misses three turns.

The way I see it, when you enter a speed game you agree to be there so as not to waste the time of the other players. It really is quite inconsiderate to do this for 15 minutes or more in a single speed game.

If this were three turns in a 20 round plus several week long game that would be one thing, but I think that it is only right that other players should see that this player took 15 minutes from the others here. It's an issue of whether or not the rest of the site wants to play with a person who does this in speed games, which are different from casual games.

[wicked]

It's very easy to miss turns in a speed game since you're not alloted much time, especially considering the server problems we've been having lately. It's very easy to have something unplanned come up, or have computer problems. 15 minutes out of your day isn't really a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

[Ditocoaf]

It's very easy to miss turns in a speed game since you're not alloted much time, especially considering the server problems we've been having lately. It's very easy to have something unplanned come up, or have computer problems. 15 minutes out of your day isn't really a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

So then you have every right to ignore the fact that someones misses turns frequently. Others might not want to ignore it. Are you trying to impose your preferences on everyone here? Oh, wait, never mind; stupid question. (you're a mod, it's your job)

[TheBro]

If you miss 3 turns a neutral should at least be accepted.

[Anarkistsdream]

As much as it makes me want to gag, I agree with Whump.

[wrestler1ump]

It's very easy to miss turns in a speed game since you're not alloted much time, especially considering the server problems we've been having lately. It's very easy to have something unplanned come up, or have computer problems. 15 minutes out of your day isn't really a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

One time I really did have computer problems in a game (1223701), and I ran out of time twice. I also left the game and missed a turn once it started lagging, but I ended up getting 3 negative feedbacks for this one game, one of which I believe I reported but is still there.

[lord voldemort]

ok here is my take i sort of agree with both sides.
deadbeating...ie intentionally getting kicked after playing a few rounds...WITHOUT REASON, that is worthy of a neg. missing 3 random turns in a match, not getting kicked, or in a row, with a reason, is not worth a neg. i also think that whump has no right to give neg feedback for missing turns...you do it yourself

[GabonX]

It's very easy to miss turns in a speed game since you're not alloted much time, especially considering the server problems we've been having lately. It's very easy to have something unplanned come up, or have computer problems. 15 minutes out of your day isn't really a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

I think that this is an example of moderation which is not objective but instead reflects the opinion of one moderator which is opposed to the policy of the site. I have doubts about the way that feedback is handled, whether or not it is always handled in a fair matter which is in accordance with the posted rules. The rules are:

Feedback Guidelines

Leave only fair and factual comments that relate to a specific game.
Do not leave feedback for trivial things like missing an occasional turn.
Do not use foul language.
Do not fish for feedback (i.e. leave positive feedback to get positive feedback in return).
Do not leave retaliatory feedback (i.e. leave negative feedback in revenge of negative feedback).

In the game with cashbox 3 out of 8 turns were missed by him. 1 more and it would have been half of the turns in that game. That is excessive.

The general consensus here is that missing 3 turns in a speed game is something which players should be allowed to voice their discontent with. wicked sees it fit to silence them.

It's very easy to miss turns in a speed game since you're not alloted much time, especially considering the server problems we've been having lately. It's very easy to have something unplanned come up, or have computer problems. 15 minutes out of your day isn't really a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

One time I really did have computer problems in a game (1223701), and I ran out of time twice. I also left the game and missed a turn once it started lagging, but I ended up getting 3 negative feedbacks for this one game, one of which I believe I reported but is still there.

The fact that you have missed turns shouldn't have anything to do with you're ability to leave feedback. A player in those games has the right to leave you bad feedback for it so why should you be deprived the right to do it to someone who misses turns in your games?

It is stated that if a player abuses feedback that they can have their feedback abilities disables. If this has not happened to you then you should be able to say what you want.

ok here is my take i sort of agree with both sides.
deadbeating...ie intentionally getting kicked after playing a few rounds...WITHOUT REASON, that is worthy of a neg. missing 3 random turns in a match, not getting kicked, or in a row, with a reason, is not worth a neg. i also think that whump has no right to give neg feedback for missing turns...you do it yourself

The issue isn't the number of turns, it's that this was in a speed game.

It shouldn't matter who gives what feedback for what reason. There needs to be an objective standard to determine whether or not feedback is acceptable. I've noticed before that personal opinion, perhaps based on personal relationships between moderators and players, has a tendency to override the posted rules regarding feedback.

[lord voldemort]

true. however some one who leaves feedbcak for missing turns when he does it himself is a double standard. which is why i think wicked deemed it trivial. i do agree that the site shouldnt be modded based on opinions of members

[wicked]

There needs to be an objective standard to determine whether or not feedback is acceptable.

There is. As I've already stated, 3 nonconsecutive turns missed is, and always has been, deemed trivial. We had to draw a line somewhere, and that was it. If you want your feedback to stick, don't leave it for missing turns (unless someone deadbeats).

[GabonX]

true. however some one who leaves feedbcak for missing turns when he does it himself is a double standard. which is why i think wicked deemed it trivial. i do agree that the site shouldnt be modded based on opinions of members

I hardly ever miss turns. I don't think I've ever missed one in a speed game. If a player missed 3 out of 8 turns in a speed game with me, I would probably be quite upset with them and might even want to leave negative feedback.

If I should be able to do it, then any player who has not had their feedback abilities disabled should also be able to. If the players that wump had missed turns while playing against wanted to leave him negative feedback they should be able to. Likewise, wump should be able to leave negative feedback for someone that does it to him.

What you are stating here is that you think that one player should be able to leave a negative feedback to another, but that the player who has recieved that negative cannot leave feedback for the reason which he recieved his. This is the definition of a double standard.

[GabonX]

There needs to be an objective standard to determine whether or not feedback is acceptable.

There is. As I've already stated, 3 nonconsecutive turns missed is, and always has been, deemed trivial. We had to draw a line somewhere, and that was it. If you want your feedback to stick, don't leave it for missing turns (unless someone deadbeats).

Well I don't know where this is stated. Certainly it isn't posted in the instructions section where feedback guidelines are posted. It sounds to me like you have created this "standard" on a whim and have decided to enforce it despite the fact that it is not posted anywhere (anywhere that I know of that is).

In a speedgame missing three turns is a big deal. When you enter one of these games you are expected by the other players to be there. Honestly I would rather someone deadbeat out of a speedgame than miss 3 turns and then continue to play as this takes even more time.

[lord voldemort]

no im saying no one should be able to leave feedback for something like missing turns in a game if they do it themselves
and wicked gave the official cc stand negative feedback for 3 non consecutive missed turns is considered trivial. i think this is fair reasonable let the thread die

[GabonX]

In game 1980859 wump has negative feedback for missing exactly 3 turns from adam666. Why wasn't this removed when wicked was doing her rounds? It is his top feedback so if she was giving him the same consideration she gave to the players who he left feedback to she couldn't have missed it.

Unfair double standard?

[wicked]

It is in there.. Do not leave feedback for trivial things like missing an occasional turn.

Missing turns in a casual game delays the game 24 hours. Missing turns in a speed game delays the game a mere 5 minutes. If delaying a game 24 hours has been deemed trivial, delaying a game 5-15 minutes certainly is as well.

That being said, I'll bring up a discussion among other feedback mods and admins if they think we should have different guidelines for speed games. I would like to hear others' opinions as well though.

[GabonX]

Occasional is a very subjective term. I would say that missing 1 turn shy of 50% of the total turns in an entire game is not occasional but is instead regular.

[wicked]

In game 1980859 wump has negative feedback for missing exactly 3 turns from adam666. Why wasn't this removed when wicked was doing her rounds? It is his top feedback so if she was giving him the same consideration she gave to the players who he left feedback to she couldn't have missed it.

Unfair double standard?

Give me a break. We go mainly off complaints and that one was just left today. I'm sure we'll get an eticket about it and if it's trivial, will be removed.

[wicked]

Occasional is a very subjective term. I would say that missing 1 turn shy of 50% of the total turns in an entire game is not occasional but is instead regular.

That may be a good benchmark, a percentage of turns missed. Good idea.