Aliens

by **ParadiceCity9** on Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:59 pm

Of course I do. The universe is unthinkably huge; there's bound to be life out there somewhere.

by **Jenos Ridan** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:37 am

Dekloren wrote:It is ignorant to think that there is no other life in this unlimited vast universe.

So far, SETI has had no replies, regrettably. Sadder still, I fear that people would react just like they did in "Contact" if and when a message does come through.

by **comic boy** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:16 am

I would imagine there must be other life out there somewhere, also if there is a God would he not by definition be an alien ?

by **Fruitcake** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:00 am

There are estimated to be between 50 and 500 billion galaxies. Within each galaxy, there are estimated to between 20 million and 500 billion stars in each galaxy.

If one makes a judgement call about red giants etc, that are unlikely to support life, then focus in on the number of class G stars (such as ours) the potential total reduces from 10,000 billion at least and 250,000 billion billion (I am unsure how this is put, UK and USA have different ways, but it is immaterial anyway) then the new lowest number is actually less than one thinks... an estimated 50 billion.

Now deduct the number of stars estimated to be unable to support life as we know it (from research, so far, there have been few planets found in the 'goldiocks zone') and you (with a somewhat deep breath and sweeping generalisation) arrive at around 10 billion star systems. If only 1 in 1 million of these had life as we know it, then there would be only be 10,000 (having used the UK style of billion) planets with aliens.

The problem of course, is although this number seems high, spread that around the universe, and it could be like looking for a single grain of sand on all the beaches on this planet. It is no wonder SETI has not been successful yet.

My theory, for what it is worth, is this. If the Universe is expanding, then there are much older systems than ours. So logic dictates that the closer to the core (start) of the Universe, the more likely any 'aliens' found would be way ahead of us in terms of technology etc. QED, they may well have had experience of a suicidal warlike, and maniacal creature that even enjoys playing games of chance where the victor is arrived at by killing everything else off!!

Would you want to contact such a species? I certainly would not, and would use my technology to ensure we remained hidden until such a time as we could be sure this species had got past all this aggresion and had settled...

Just my thought for what it is worth.

EDIT: I do understand that many assumptions of the figures above could make the conclusions a non-sequitur. Furthermore, I have not factored in any potential geographical factors (as it is pretty well argued that that the landform patterns of continents can determine how quickly a planet develops technology, and, interestingly, which parts develop the quickest, but that is a different discussion all together).

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:48 pm

You're basing all that on an assumption that "Aliens" would need an earth like planet/atmosphere to survive.

by **Napoleon Ier** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:51 pm

comic boy wrote:I would imagine there must be other life out there somewhere, also if there is a God would he not by definition be an alien ?

Oh dear...I swear I'll never tire of this guy...

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:56 pm

That's actually a fantastic post.

by **Snorri1234** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:50 pm

Dekloren wrote:You're basing all that on an assumption that "Aliens" would need an earth like planet/atmosphere to survive.

Yeah, there is no reason to assume life can only exist the way we have it.

Besides, we already have life-forms on this planet who don't need most of the conditions of earth. Bacteria that can resist very high or very low temperatures or an acid-level that would kill us instantly exist.

by **Fruitcake** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:08 pm

Dekloren wrote:You're basing all that on an assumption that "Aliens" would need an earth like planet/atmosphere to survive.

Well, actually...no I have not made that assumption as you put it.

It is now accepted that life requires some basic resources to exist. This is due to amino requirements etc. It is also accepted that heat at a certain level ensures the progress of evolution. Too cold (lack of Co2 to create a favourable 'greenhouse' effect) and the organism never makes it beyond the basic levels, too hot, it never even makes it that far, that is why the 'Goldilocks' band is now accepted as the area within which life can progress in any solar system.

Acid levels if too high do not allow any kind of organism to survive. This is shown to great effect by studying Venus, which has some very high Co2 levels (97%), this, in turn, leads to a massively increased atmospheric pressure (90 times that of Earth) along with other niceties such as clouds of sulphuric acid, chlorine etc. This lead to massively increased temperature (the acid rain actually evaporates before it even hits the planet surface there.)

There are already planets found within solar systems that are as much as G10 (10 times the gravitational field). Although we would no doubt find ourselves crushed if we tried to exist there, this is no reason to believe other life types, that have evolved differently to adapt, could not.

Dry land creates a different evolvement to H2O; this is proven here on Earth. However, water, as such, also helps drive evolution.

Now factor in the way the Sun actually works and the energy it produces: In about 4 billion years our own sol will become a red Giant. When this happens, we will be burnt away to a cinder. The 'goldilocks' belt, however, becomes very thin as the fusion created takes place deep within the star and gives out far less energy than now, incredibly however, due to the collapsing pressure, the central core becomes hot enough to fuse protons into alphas, So the star gains a new source of energy, but as I mentioned, the radiation gets weaker as it tries to escape, (thus the red colour). Now returning to the 'new' goldilocks belt, not only is this thinner, but the lifespan is that much shorter, giving little time for outlying planets to change and start evolving before they are obliterated by sol going super nova.

So, in summary, although it may seem we are always basing on earth like planets, it is only because recent research and study across the galaxies has shown little sign that life can exist outside some fairly broad guidelines.

We need to decide what we mean by 'Aliens'. If we mean some basic single celled life forms, then I would imagine there are many, after all, those of us fascinated by this wait in breathless anticipation to see if water does actually exist just under the surface of mars...if it does, that will set the cat among the creationist pigeons, that's for sure.. If we are talking about evolved species, then the rules above truly do apply.

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:18 pm

Silly.

by **Dapper Tom** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:19 pm

You certainly are.

by **greenoaks** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:35 pm

comic boy wrote:I would imagine there must be other life out there somewhere, also if there is a God would he not by definition be an alien ?

aliens are 6ft tall with ginger beards and hairy chests. apparently god created me in his image.

by **Audax** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:42 pm

Intellectual conversation with you must be really interesting dekloren

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:48 pm

It is, when I give a shit.

by **Audax** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:49 pm

Case rests.

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:52 pm

Saying aliens need everything we need to survive is just as ignorant as saying aliens don't exist.

by **Minister Masket** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:36 pm

Hitman079 wrote:i'm a christian, but i believe in evolution- something along the lines of God creating us through evolution.

Dude! Same here!

The one thing evolution can't explain is where life originated.
All you need is an omnipotent being to create life, kick-start evolution as a means of developing intelligent creatures and bingo!

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:40 pm

Aliens did 9/11.

by **muy_thaiguy** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:48 pm

Dekloren wrote:Aliens did 9/11.

....

by **Dekloren** on Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:05 pm

by **reminisco** on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:25 am

Dekloren wrote:Saying aliens need everything we need to survive is just as ignorant as saying aliens don't exist.

this guy? calling people ignorant?

really?

by **muy_thaiguy** on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:35 am

reminisco wrote:
Dekloren wrote:Saying aliens need everything we need to survive is just as ignorant as saying aliens don't exist.

this guy? calling people ignorant?

really?

Looks like it.