Oh no he didn't...

[btownmeggy]

I'll tell you who REALLY won WWII for the Allies...

[Skittles!]

Your two bits clearly implied that the Americans were the saviours of the day. They werent, well no more than the Brits or any of the other "fighting" nations. Yes you helped. No you did not win the war. We all did.

In Europe I agree with you, the Russian broke the German's fighting spirit. And without the successful defense of England and the leadership of Churchill there would've been no base for the invasion. The US played a late game role with economy and numbers.

In the Pacific, it was indeed mostly Americans (and chinese rebels) that did most of the fighting. The Russians refused to give us aid after May of '45 and the Brits were understandably busy licking their wounds in Europe. Jungle fighting was just as bad as the fighting on the Eastern Front. And Japanese culture was so ridged that it took two nukes to get them to surrender.

Oh f*ck off. Sure American's supplied a navy and took in the Phillipines, but what about Papau New Guinea? Do you even know where PNG is? Have you ever heard of the Kokoda track? What about other countries in the Pacific which are made up of big islands?
DO NOT claim that you saved the Pacific all by yourself. That's a fucking insult.

I'm really fucking sick of Australia being discredited or not even mentioned by other countries for both world wars. Australia may not of done a lot, but by god what they did do made A LOT of difference to each war.

So honestly, next time you think that the US saved the Pacific by itself, please think of going up steep mountains with the Japanese after you in tropical rainforest with humid weather and pouring down with the amount of shit on your back.

[Iliad]

Your two bits clearly implied that the Americans were the saviours of the day. They werent, well no more than the Brits or any of the other "fighting" nations. Yes you helped. No you did not win the war. We all did.

In Europe I agree with you, the Russian broke the German's fighting spirit. And without the successful defense of England and the leadership of Churchill there would've been no base for the invasion. The US played a late game role with economy and numbers.

In the Pacific, it was indeed mostly Americans (and chinese rebels) that did most of the fighting. The Russians refused to give us aid after May of '45 and the Brits were understandably busy licking their wounds in Europe. Jungle fighting was just as bad as the fighting on the Eastern Front. And Japanese culture was so ridged that it took two nukes to get them to surrender.

Oh f*ck off. Sure American's supplied a navy and took in the Phillipines, but what about Papau New Guinea? Do you even know where PNG is? Have you ever heard of the Kokoda track? What about other countries in the Pacific which are made up of big islands?
DO NOT claim that you saved the Pacific all by yourself. That's a fucking insult.

I'm really fucking sick of Australia being discredited or not even mentioned by other countries for both world wars. Australia may not of done a lot, but by god what they did do made A LOT of difference to each war.

So honestly, next time you think that the US saved the Pacific by itself, please think of going up steep mountains with the Japanese after you in tropical rainforest with humid weather and pouring down with the amount of shit on your back.

Actually in WW1 Australia had the worst casualties as a percentage of its population

[Skittles!]

That's like, because we had a population of 1.5 million or something. Not that great..

in WWI we had that place with I forget the name of but yeah.

[Iliad]

you should be proud of being a Yank. we rule, and without us, our limey friends across the pond would be speaking German right now, instead of the Queen's english.

I am sick of this argument being used against us, because it just isn't true. We have the Russians - funnily enough to thank for that, not you Yanks.
You were too busy fighting Jip Jap over the ruddy Pacific. Sure you donated troops and nosh, but frankly your late entry meant you didn't get to do an awful lot.

To take offense at this thread is not the liability of "MM's Evil Scientist Corporation" or any of their flying monkeys of doom. Batteries not included.

Well, we certainly didn't do it alone, that's just stupid, but it would have likely lasted much longer without our help. Besides, we focused on Germany before Japan. They did go down first ya know.

That said you're correct. Dragging up things that happened several generations earlier and somehow claiming it as your accomplishment, no matter the context, is ridicerous.

Actually you didn't help the Russians at all so far as I know. So the war in Europe still would have ended in 1945, even if you didn't join.

We saved the whole country of france

you say it as though you just came along and saved us all without breaking a sweat.

[Iliad]

See Groove man the problem isn't that America didn't help, everyone helped, it's just you always, always hear Americans claming that if it wasn't for them Germany would've won. Funnily you don't hear French Rebels, Russians, English, and everyone else bragging but you do hear Americans bragging

[Skittles!]

Plus, we would not be speaking German. That's crazy.

[Dariune]

See Groove man the problem isn't that America didn't help, everyone helped, it's just you always, always hear Americans claming that if it wasn't for them Germany would've won. Funnily you don't hear French Rebels, Russians, English, and everyone else bragging but you do hear Americans bragging

My point exactly.

[diddle]

I second all these notions.

[spurgistan]

See Groove man the problem isn't that America didn't help, everyone helped, it's just you always, always hear Americans claming that if it wasn't for them Germany would've won. Funnily you don't hear French Rebels, Russians, English, and everyone else bragging but you do hear Americans bragging

...not always. But way too much, agreed. It shouldn't ever really be a bragging matter, except maybe for anybody who actually had something to do with it.

[Harijan]

FYI the Americans did barely anything to help Stalingrad. That was the end of Germany.

Everyone did their part. If the U.S. was not involved on the Western Front Stalingrad would have had the attention of the entire German war machine, not the small army that got destroyed.

England was doomed without intervention by its allies. So take your pick, the English were eating donated American food, shooting American made bullets from American guns.

Germany was carpet bombing every city of significance on the island, and any Englishman with money was already in out of the country.

The Russians were invaded, they had to fight back. America had no reason to fight against Germany other than it was the right thing to do. America had no help with Japan because its Allies could not spare anything from the German fight.

And don't forget that it was America that won the A-Bomb race with Germany as a close second. The war was pretty much over at that point anyway, but the A-Bomb turned what would have been a 3 year wind down in fighting to a 2-month shut down of the German and Japanese military.

Everyone deserves credit, but the Americans were the only ones who voluntarily entered the fight with Germany, and honestly if America did not enter the fight when it did, we would all be speaking German, not just Europe.

[suggs]

you should be proud of being a Yank. we rule, and without us, our limey friends across the pond would be speaking German right now, instead of the Queen's english.

I am sick of this argument being used against us, because it just isn't true. We have the Russians - funnily enough to thank for that, not you Yanks.
You were too busy fighting Jip Jap over the ruddy Pacific. Sure you donated troops and nosh, but frankly your late entry meant you didn't get to do an awful lot.

To take offense at this thread is not the liability of "MM's Evil Scientist Corporation" or any of their flying monkeys of doom. Batteries not included.

The Yanks meant that we Limeys didnt end up speaking Russian.
OK?
Christ, the simpletons around here

[Guiscard]

The Russians were invaded, they had to fight back. America had no reason to fight against Germany other than it was the right thing to do.

And a whole host of less than moral economic reasons. America fought the war for just as selfish a reason as any other participant. Don't give our leaders so much credit.

England was doomed without intervention by its allies. So take your pick, the English were eating donated American food, shooting American made bullets from American guns.

We certainly were not! You're forgetting our boys at home!

[suggs]

If by "selfish" you mean the Americans wanted to defeat the Germans so that Europe didn't fall to the Nazis, thus creating a VERY DANGEROUS global situation for the US, threatening their very survival, then yes they were selfish.

Self preservation is more accurate, and fair enough to the Yanks.

[Harijan]

And a whole host of less than moral economic reasons. America fought the war for just as selfish a reason as any other participant. Don't give our leaders so much credit.

Agreed, but that does not make my argument work nearly as well. By "right thing to do" I mean that it was no longer economically beneficial for America to sit on the sidelines and sell as much stuff as we could to the Allies. So we got involved.

[Skittles!]

America had no help with Japan because its Allies could not spare anything from the German fight.

Did you even read my post on the last page? There seems be another country called "Australia" that was also in the war. Have you heard of it?

Everyone deserves credit, but the Americans were the only ones who voluntarily entered the fight with Germany, and honestly if America did not enter the fight when it did, we would all be speaking German, not just Europe.

No, Australia voluntarily went into war as well, believe it or. It was "our duty to the British Empire" or some bullshit like that.

[suggs]

And a whole host of less than moral economic reasons. America fought the war for just as selfish a reason as any other participant. Don't give our leaders so much credit.

Agreed, but that does not make my argument work nearly as well. By "right thing to do" I mean that it was no longer economically beneficial for America to sit on the sidelines and sell as much stuff as we could to the Allies. So we got involved.

It was far more than economics. You make it sound lie Roosevelt thought "Hmm, we can earn more money if we enter the war".
Thats just absurd-wars are inherently financially risky.
The main reason he got the US in was a mixture of Real Politik survival instinct, PLUS a genuine desire to destroy what Roosevelt thought was an EVIL tyranny. So there was a moral and cultural dimension to the US involvement, although making the US secure was naturally FDR's primary concern.

[Ntetos]

The main reason the Americans joined the war was because they realised that Russia would eventually defeat Germany and then they would have influence all over Europe. The Americans feared and hated the Soviets more than the Nazis. Had they not joined the Russians would have saved Europe. Of course the war would have lasted much longer and more people would have died but the Russian Army was much bigger than the German. Of course the Germans couldn't move all their army into Russia because every country they had conquered would rebel.

[Harijan]

No, Australia voluntarily went into war as well, believe it or. It was "our duty to the British Empire" or some bullshit like that.

Sorry, I thought we were limiting the debate to countries that mattered.

[Minister Masket]

No, Australia voluntarily went into war as well, believe it or. It was "our duty to the British Empire" or some bullshit like that.

Sorry, I thought we were limiting the debate to countries that mattered.

A) I think Skittles is now thinking what the title of the thread says...

B) Look what Australia has given the world:
Great hats!
Kangaroos!
Boomerangs!
blunty3000!

[RedBullNation]

No, Australia voluntarily went into war as well, believe it or. It was "our duty to the British Empire" or some bullshit like that.

Sorry, I thought we were limiting the debate to countries that mattered.

A) I think Skittles is now thinking what the title of the thread says...

B) Look what Australia has given the world:
Great hats!
Kangaroos!
Boomerangs!
blunty3000!

You forgot...actually they don't have thim anymore.

[Skittles!]

A) I think Skittles is now thinking what the title of the thread says...

I know what it was, douche. I'm just getting uptight.

B) Look what Australia has given the world:
Great hats!
Kangaroos!
Boomerangs!
blunty3000!

Uh-huh.

[Frigidus]

Pretty much every country that took part in the war (in any form) contributed greatly to the war effort. Without Russia (and America at that) Germany would have been able to keep the war primarily to one front, and likely have won out in the end. Without Britain Germany would have secured the whole of Western Europe, and the Invasion of Normandy would likely have never occurred, at least not in the way it did. Without France Britain would have been crippled before retreating from the mainland. I don't know nearly as much about the Pacific theater, but Australia and China both did their part as well. You can't give all the credit to anyone and you can't exclude everyone. It was a World War for a reason.

[Iliad]

FYI the Americans did barely anything to help Stalingrad. That was the end of Germany.

Everyone did their part. If the U.S. was not involved on the Western Front Stalingrad would have had the attention of the entire German war machine, not the small army that got destroyed.

England was doomed without intervention by its allies. So take your pick, the English were eating donated American food, shooting American made bullets from American guns.

Germany was carpet bombing every city of significance on the island, and any Englishman with money was already in out of the country.

The Russians were invaded, they had to fight back. America had no reason to fight against Germany other than it was the right thing to do. America had no help with Japan because its Allies could not spare anything from the German fight.

And don't forget that it was America that won the A-Bomb race with Germany as a close second. The war was pretty much over at that point anyway, but the A-Bomb turned what would have been a 3 year wind down in fighting to a 2-month shut down of the German and Japanese military.

Everyone deserves credit, but the Americans were the only ones who voluntarily entered the fight with Germany, and honestly if America did not enter the fight when it did, we would all be speaking German, not just Europe.

And if the British didn't enter the fight we would've lost. Or if the Russians didn't. Or the French.


Oh and the reason America became a world power was the World wars. After each one European countries had bled themselves dry and had to borrow money from American banks

[Dariune]

As has been said, The Americans played no larger role than any of the other participating countries. yes they were a great help, yes they may well have changed the course of the war. But thats true of every small action that occured during the war. Its certainly not a matter for boasting.

In my opinion the ONLY big matter for the allies to boast about is the fact that several armies joined a cause and therefore a comarade between cultures was born. A pretty hefty feat.

Australia also played their part and its hardly far for anyone to say they didnt. Their part was not as well known as the American contribution because as has been said, the people that brag the most are the Americans. But the Aussie part contributed to the war and therefore changed the way the war turned out.