What will happen when you die?

[Skittles!]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

[Jenos Ridan]

I'm with Ambrose on this one, granted Science has never been my best subject, I have learned in my physics class (10 th grade that was) that physics, or even science in general (also took a space science course and chemistry course) doesn't refute God in any way, it does make more of a leap towards agnosticism, but, looking at the Big Bang Theory, and others even, I certainly see Ambrose's point in it. Just that science itself is not my best subject, history is.

I used to, at least when I first began in faith, to have a stigma about science, since before then I had based a good deal of what I believed on certain princibles like Evolution. The stigma has remained untill recently, when it finally dawned on me that I have nothing to worry about; science is merely the study of creation and is not out to disprove anything of a supernatural nature, if anything, it affirms it. But Faith is the prerequiste factor involved.

[Neoteny]

I am doing a survey and I was just wondering what you people think. I love having conversations on this topic!

As do I. When we die we cease to be. End of story.

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Do you even read what you write? I know it's hard to imagine that someone with different opinions than you are thinking people too, but give it a try sometime. It might serve you well.

[Jenos Ridan]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

[Neoteny]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

You must have been a shitty atheist. I don't think life is meaningless. I just don't rely on others to tell me what meaning my life has.

[muy_thaiguy]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

You missed the point, didn't you?

He said that some people act just like animals, in that they have no morals, no self-control, etc. There is a difference in the meanings of his words you know.

[Jenos Ridan]

I am doing a survey and I was just wondering what you people think. I love having conversations on this topic!

As do I. When we die we cease to be. End of story.

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Do you even read what you write? I know it's hard to imagine that someone with different opinions than you are thinking people too, but give it a try sometime. It might serve you well.

I have to read that which I write, it is the prerequiste to writting. I think you'll find a common theme with the bolded parts: that a pointless existance is an exercise in futillity and all things in life (which are italized) are futile and cannot be the point of life in of themselves. I hope that you find this helpful in some way.

[Frigidus]

I am doing a survey and I was just wondering what you people think. I love having conversations on this topic!

As do I. When we die we cease to be. End of story.

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Whoa. Because I feel that we are a physical rather than a metaphysical being life is meaningless for me? I suppose that we're basically talking philosophy, but just because we reject the idea that there is something more to us than what is immediately apparent I see no reason to abandon all semblances of humanity. I think that your argument relies on the idea that because we, theoretically, eventually die and cease to exist, that everything done before our death has no meaning. This seems a bit self-centered to me. Let me respond to your arguments in parts:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist.

I wouldn't say that we don't exist. Perhaps what you mean is that because the brain is nothing but a complex series of chemical processes it doesn't really constitute a consciousness as much as an organic machine. I'm actually taking a class right now on the nature of free will, and that sort of argument has been made to argue that we are essentially nothing but a really complex program. To me this line of reasoning while interesting has little merit on the real world. Clearly I exist, at least on some level, because I am aware of myself. I am, at this moment, thinking about my existence. I think therefore I am. A kind of corny argument, but it holds up. A simple cause-effect driven machine does not react to and change its environment. It does not have a concept of the world around it. We may be latched to the physical world (what I might argue is the only world), but that doesn't make us any less human.

Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die.

Whoa. That's a very depressing way to look at things. This is an argument that I've actually heard from a few of my more religious friends. Aside from the "what remains of your heart" bit and the references to carnal and animalistic behavior, you seem to be unable to cope with the idea of death. I suppose that the difference between our perspectives is that you see atheism as the removal of the afterlife from the equation, essentially dooming us to a tiny life span. The way I view it is merely rejecting the idea that we are immortal. I can assure you that I haven't given over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more. That's hardly a life worth living.

As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Since I was in elementary school I've been trying to grapple with the idea of death. I turned the concept over in my head for literal hours (not straight of course, just thought about it every once in a while). I've come to the conclusion that I won't really have to worry about feeling bad that I'm dead because I'll be dead. That might sound strange, but it is how I come to terms with the inevitable. I do not fear death. I'd rather look ahead on my life.

[Neoteny]

I am doing a survey and I was just wondering what you people think. I love having conversations on this topic!

As do I. When we die we cease to be. End of story.

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Do you even read what you write? I know it's hard to imagine that someone with different opinions than you are thinking people too, but give it a try sometime. It might serve you well.

I have to read that which I write, it is the prerequiste to writting. I think you'll find a common theme with the bolded parts: that a pointless existance is an exercise in futillity and all things in life are futile and cannot be the point of life in of themselves. I hope that you find this helpful in some way.

You are just asserting that life is pointless because it's material. I don't see why it is. One's purpose can be something as simple and elegant as loving yourself and others. No spiritual guidance necessary. Note the lack of undying lust and hunger for more, unless you are referring to the hunger of love from others. In which case, I don't see any harm in that.

[Frigidus]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

You must have been a shitty atheist. I don't think life is meaningless. I just don't rely on others to tell me what meaning my life has.

Of course Holbach had a similar view, and he was a pretty level-headed athiest. I just don't see how nihilism and athiesm are naturally linked.

[Neoteny]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

You must have been a shitty atheist. I don't think life is meaningless. I just don't rely on others to tell me what meaning my life has.

Of course Holbach had a similar view, and he was a pretty level-headed athiest. I just don't see how nihilism and athiesm are naturally linked.

You have much more patience than I. Anyhow, if anything, I'd say atheism is less likely to be correlated with nihilism than some religious mindsets, just by the very nature of nihilism.

[Neutrino]

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Ooookkkkkk then...

I don't know why you automatically assume Athiesm leads to Nihilism. There are plenty of points to life that don't involve a lifetime of groveling. Being a nice person is probably a big one.
If basic human empathy isn't enough to stop you abusing others, I don't think some dEIty's eventual threat will make much of a difference.

[Jenos Ridan]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

You must have been a shitty atheist. I don't think life is meaningless. I just don't rely on others to tell me what meaning my life has.

I was miserable and it sucked. In that sense, I was a shitty atheist. Ok then, what is the purpose of life then?

[Skittles!]

Why does there have to be a purpose? Why can't you just think that maybe your god or our evolutionary beliefs just let us be here to exist.

Seriously. Fucking hell. If there is a purpose, it is to EXIST.

[Neoteny]

believe it or not Jenos, we are animals.

The point I was making is, if you accept that life has no meaning, then you must logically accept that all things in life are execises in futillity. Simple as that.

You must have been a shitty atheist. I don't think life is meaningless. I just don't rely on others to tell me what meaning my life has.

I was miserable and it sucked. In that sense, I was a shitty atheist. Ok then, what is the purpose of life then?

That's not really something for me to tell you, but I can tell you the purpose of my life. Finish college. Get a good job. Use these and other achievements to contribute to society in perpetuity. Love my family. Love my friends. Stick with the "golden rule." Someone got that right. It's really simple to me. I have a sex drive, and I do see a purpose to passing on my genes from my biologically oriented standpoint, but it is a completely secondary purpose. It does not rule my life, and I have full control over it.

[Neoteny]

Why does there have to be a purpose? Why can't you just think that maybe your god or our evolutionary beliefs just let us be here to exist.

Seriously. Fucking hell. If there is a purpose, it is to EXIST.

I think purpose is something that we set for ourself. I think, behind that nihilism, you've set a purpose for yourself as well.

[Jenos Ridan]

To a point, that is true. Our bodies have the word die in them for a reason . But I have this to say:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist. Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die. As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Nihilism is the product of Atheism. I should know, I lived it. And in truth, living that way is no better than the life of an animal. Not exactlly the find of dignity that most Atheists invision but it is the truth.

But isn’t it great ? There are a number of very good reasons I don’t think that way anymore.

Whoa. Because I feel that we are a physical rather than a metaphysical being life is meaningless for me? I suppose that we're basically talking philosophy, but just because we reject the idea that there is something more to us than what is immediately apparent I see no reason to abandon all semblances of humanity. I think that your argument relies on the idea that because we, theoretically, eventually die and cease to exist, that everything done before our death has no meaning. This seems a bit self-centered to me. Let me respond to your arguments in parts:

If the reality of existence is material and not spiritual, then life means nil and is pointless. Forget about consciousness; you don’t exist.

I wouldn't say that we don't exist. Perhaps what you mean is that because the brain is nothing but a complex series of chemical processes it doesn't really constitute a consciousness as much as an organic machine. I'm actually taking a class right now on the nature of free will, and that sort of argument has been made to argue that we are essentially nothing but a really complex program. To me this line of reasoning while interesting has little merit on the real world. Clearly I exist, at least on some level, because I am aware of myself. I am, at this moment, thinking about my existence. I think therefore I am. A kind of corny argument, but it holds up. A simple cause-effect driven machine does not react to and change its environment. It does not have a concept of the world around it. We may be latched to the physical world (what I might argue is the only world), but that doesn't make us any less human.

You are right, it is a corny argument. But it holds no more water than a sieve; life is futile since it only ends in death, yea or nea?

Seeing as how you, deep down in what remains of your heart (seeing as your never had a soul, this mere organ will have to suffice), know that, you’ll then, in fear of the inevitable, proceed to cravenly fulfill your basest and most carnal desires, devoid of any real sensitivity, having, as Scripture points out, giving it all over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more until you die.

Whoa. That's a very depressing way to look at things. This is an argument that I've actually heard from a few of my more religious friends. Aside from the "what remains of your heart" bit and the references to carnal and animalistic behavior, you seem to be unable to cope with the idea of death. I suppose that the difference between our perspectives is that you see atheism as the removal of the afterlife from the equation, essentially dooming us to a tiny life span. The way I view it is merely rejecting the idea that we are immortal. I can assure you that I haven't given over to sensuality with an undying lust and hunger for more. That's hardly a life worth living.

I agree, it was a bad way to approach life. But it was honest and true to the facts. But I don't think that way any more (I have the memories, the emotional scars, but that is all), for reasons that should be obvious. And your point of view and my former outlook (emphasis on former) are, deep down, not that different; you just said that you are not, in any way immortal. And being immortal and being in an afterlife are different how? Trick question, they are not. Period. I can speak from experience, that is how it works.

As the song goes, it turns to ashes in your mouth. If you accept all this as the truth, then prepare for the taste of ash while you lay on your deathbed and to become merely dust in the wind (or worm food, whichever seems more poetic. oops, yeah, poetry is a pointless venture too, since life itself is an exercise in futillity).

Since I was in elementary school I've been trying to grapple with the idea of death. I turned the concept over in my head for literal hours (not straight of course, just thought about it every once in a while). I've come to the conclusion that I won't really have to worry about feeling bad that I'm dead because I'll be dead. That might sound strange, but it is how I come to terms with the inevitable. I do not fear death. I'd rather look ahead on my life.

You don't fear death. Hmmmm, why do I find that so blatantly impossible? Everyone fears the inevitable, firstly because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop it. And secondly, because what happens after, is unknown and the unknown has always been terrifying to humans. And if nothing happens, well, the ceasation of life is fearful enough. So don't try and tell me that you don't fear death.

Cutting you off at the pass: "well, do you fear death?" Yes, but I don't let nameless fears (among other things) rule me, unlike the miserable person I was until five years ago.

[Jenos Ridan]

Why does there have to be a purpose? Why can't you just think that maybe your god or our evolutionary beliefs just let us be here to exist.

Seriously. Fucking hell. If there is a purpose, it is to EXIST.

Wow.

So Theists aren't the only ones who use circular logic. Oh, I get it now; it's only bad when we do it. Got'ya.

[Frigidus]

You don't fear death. Hmmmm, why do I find that so blatantly impossible? Everyone fears the inevitable, firstly because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop it. And secondly, because what happens after, is unknown and the unknown has always been terrifying to humans. And if nothing happens, well, the ceasation of life is fearful enough. So don't try and tell me that you don't fear death.

Cutting you off at the pass: "well, do you fear death?" Yes, but I don't let nameless fears (among other things) rule me, unlike the miserable person I was until five years ago.

Well, because it happens to everyone, why should I fear it? And, as I have said, I personally feel I know exactly what will happen. It's hard to understand the idea of not being, but that's what I think death is. I too don't let nameless fears rule my life. If I died tomorrow I would only regret that life was short, so what's to fear?

[Jenos Ridan]

You don't fear death. Hmmmm, why do I find that so blatantly impossible? Everyone fears the inevitable, firstly because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop it. And secondly, because what happens after, is unknown and the unknown has always been terrifying to humans. And if nothing happens, well, the ceasation of life is fearful enough. So don't try and tell me that you don't fear death.

Cutting you off at the pass: "well, do you fear death?" Yes, but I don't let nameless fears (among other things) rule me, unlike the miserable person I was until five years ago.

Well, because it happens to everyone, why should I fear it? And, as I have said, I personally feel I know exactly what will happen. It's hard to understand the idea of not being, but that's what I think death is. I too don't let nameless fears rule my life. If I died tomorrow I would only regret that life was short, so what's to fear?

How you managed to convience yourself of all of this nonsence is an intriging mystery. Best solved another day. For now, I'll say this; knowing exactlty what will happen while not understanding it is simply a self-defeating statement. Have a nice day .

[Frigidus]

You don't fear death. Hmmmm, why do I find that so blatantly impossible? Everyone fears the inevitable, firstly because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop it. And secondly, because what happens after, is unknown and the unknown has always been terrifying to humans. And if nothing happens, well, the ceasation of life is fearful enough. So don't try and tell me that you don't fear death.

Cutting you off at the pass: "well, do you fear death?" Yes, but I don't let nameless fears (among other things) rule me, unlike the miserable person I was until five years ago.

Well, because it happens to everyone, why should I fear it? And, as I have said, I personally feel I know exactly what will happen. It's hard to understand the idea of not being, but that's what I think death is. I too don't let nameless fears rule my life. If I died tomorrow I would only regret that life was short, so what's to fear?

How you managed to convience yourself of all of this nonsence is an intriging mystery. Best solved another day. For now, I'll say this; knowing exactlty what will happen while not understanding it is simply a self-defeating statement. Have a nice day .

Can't this idea also apply to God though? You don't understand him, but you "know" he's there. As for my views being nonsense, I've continue to respect your insult-slinging as being, perhaps, misguided. It isn't like it's the first time I've heard Christians tell me I have no morals, so whatever. That said, I don't see how my confidence that God and the afterlife don't exist is any more nonsensical than your beliefs that they do. It certainly has been interesting.

[Jenos Ridan]

I TRUST that He is there. I "know" that He is there because I trust him. Not that explaining this to you will have any effect at all, since you really have no interest in understanding. Why should you; you are convienced that you are the one who is right. And that, friend, is just as bad as the "religious fanatisism" I have been labeled as having. There is a word for that, it is pride.

[Neutrino]

You are right, it is a corny argument. But it holds no more water than a sieve; life is futile since it only ends in death, yea or nea?

Why should life be futile purely because it isn't eternal? Sure, your life is short, but you can contribute to something that will last far longer than you do during that life. Be a nice person. Raise good kids. Make yourself and other people happy. Contribute to the total sum of human knowledge.
Life may be short, but it certainly isn't futile.

I agree, it was a bad way to approach life. But it was honest and true to the facts. But I don't think that way any more (I have the memories, the emotional scars, but that is all), for reasons that should be obvious. And your point of view and my former outlook (emphasis on former) are, deep down, not that different; you just said that you are not, in any way immortal. And being immortal and being in an afterlife are different how? Trick question, they are not. Period. I can speak from experience, that is how it works.

The main problem here is your experience is quite different from everyone elses. I've personally never had a problem with decending into Nihilism. Why should I? Make the best of every day as it comes and other cliched crap like that.

You don't fear death. Hmmmm, why do I find that so blatantly impossible? Everyone fears the inevitable, firstly because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop it. And secondly, because what happens after, is unknown and the unknown has always been terrifying to humans. And if nothing happens, well, the ceasation of life is fearful enough. So don't try and tell me that you don't fear death.

Cutting you off at the pass: "well, do you fear death?" Yes, but I don't let nameless fears (among other things) rule me, unlike the miserable person I was until five years ago.

Go lie down somewhere and think about your eventual death. After about 20 minutes of a queasy, anxious feeling you should realise that thinking about death is utterly pointless and actively detrimental to your enjoyment of life. Then simply refrain from thinking about it too deeply again.
If you can't stop it, why should you worry about it? That's how he can claim to be unconcerned. Sure, he'll probably be terrified if his death comes suddenly (and so will you, for all your claims that you are no longer ruled by nameless fears), but other than that death is an accepted part of life that doesn't require further contemplation.

[Dancing Mustard]

So we all agreed on "You rot in the ground and get eaten by maggots, eventually highly evolved chimps while suck you up through a pipe and use you to power automobiles" then?

Good call people.

[comic boy]

What could possibly be more futile than spending ones lifetime wondering and worrying about an afterlife that in all probability does not exist