Merged 9/11 Threads

[Backglass]

Thiomersal (INN) (C9H9HgNaO2S), formerly and still commonly known in the United States as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) used as an antiseptic and antifungal agent.

Next time you go get a flu shot, ask to the see ingredients.

If you see Thiomersal......IT'S MERCURY.

And when you do ask, they will probably tell you it isn't in there. You see, thimerosal was removed from ALL US vaccines for children under 6 in 1999 and most others for adults as well due to an outrcy that it was causing Autism. For what it's worth...Instances of Autism have actually INCREASED since this happened. Shocker.

Thimerosal has been used as a preservative in Vaccines since 1930. You receive more mercury from eating TUNA once a week then you would by getting a (now non-existent) thimersol vaccine.

Oh...and don't complain about healthcare costs when you see your vaccine cost have increased 10-fold due to storage issues. It was there for a reason...not for mind control.

But thats probably the "Gubmint" just trying to stick it to us again, isn't it. I am sure you have a theory.

[luns101]

No, I just have a lot of shit to get together to post for Luns.

I'm sure one of your sources will probably include experts such as this...

[suggs]

He's got a moustache so he must be honest. I'm sold.

[DaGip]

When it becomes mainstream media news that 9/11 was an inside job, will you hang yourself?

Because then, YOUR sense of reality is massively mistaken.

No. Because I'm not a complete idiot. Will YOU hang yourself when that never happens? I doubt it. But I hope like hell you'll all shut the f*ck up. Seriously. There are so many injustices, so many shocking issues people know so little about... For example someone recently started posting some of the little known facts about the state of slavery today, and although we debated those facts, picked them up on a few points, it was a positive contribution to the community. The 9/11 garbage is insulting to our intelligence. There are so many flaws, so many holes in your arguments, xtras arguments, DaGip's arguments, Jay's arguments that it just churns around a sea of crap time after time without taking on board any kind of contribution other than that you're prepared to accept. You won't like it, but pretty much all of us who argue against 9/11 'truth' looked into it when the claims first came up, and continue to read new bits of information. But (shock horror) we also read rebuttals, and we think about things with these marvellous things we call minds. The conclusions are obvious. Now, please keep it to one thread. If you want to stick around I strongly advise you don't just become Xtra mark two. Whatever he was banned for, the vast majority of it was unlicensed spamming of conspiracy threads. One after another.

Uh? The only evidence I ever produced is provided by the NIST...check it yourself. I would have never checked up on this if Xtra hadn't mentioned it. Disprove it if you like...doubt you will.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... falls+flat

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it...

[Guiscard]

Uh? The only evidence I ever produced is provided by the NIST...check it yourself. I would have never checked up on this if Xtra hadn't mentioned it. Disprove it if you like...doubt you will.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... falls+flat

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it...

And Backglass has posted countless times rebutting that point using highlighted evidence from the NIST report. Which has been ignored every time. Yawn...

[DaGip]

Uh? The only evidence I ever produced is provided by the NIST...check it yourself. I would have never checked up on this if Xtra hadn't mentioned it. Disprove it if you like...doubt you will.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... falls+flat

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it...

And Backglass has posted countless times rebutting that point using highlighted evidence from the NIST report. Which has been ignored every time. Yawn...

Guiss, are you illiterate? Backglass did nothing of the sort. The NIST clearly refutes the governments PANCAKE THEORY assertions. Read the thread and the NIST quotes provided. Otherwise just forget it, I was just responding to you claiming that I posted something that you apparent super intelligent human beings can easily refute. Well, I dare you to refute what I posted! I duble dog dare you! You can refute it, but the NIST has it written in black and fucking white! There is no grey area on this issue. If you disagree with me on this point, then you are way off in La-La land. This has been the only evidence that I have posted since starting these forums, and it cannot be refuted. You motherfuckers ask for fucking credible fucking sources, so I take a good chunk out of my fucking day researching this issue, and I find evidence that backs up Xtra's claims. So I fucking post the motherfucking quotes and links from the NIST webfuckingsite, but yet you deny that the evidence isn't there! Let me spell it out for you:

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Deny it, but it still exists, guissmeister. Backglass can yell and scream and spout out how much this is bullshit, and I don't have my facts straight...but that is clearly not the fucking case here. Read the thread I posted or just blow me.

[Backglass]

Uh? The only evidence I ever produced is provided by the NIST...check it yourself. I would have never checked up on this if Xtra hadn't mentioned it. Disprove it if you like...doubt you will.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... falls+flat

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it...

And Backglass has posted countless times rebutting that point using highlighted evidence from the NIST report. Which has been ignored every time. Yawn...

Guiss, are you illiterate? Backglass did nothing of the sort. The NIST clearly refutes the governments PANCAKE THEORY assertions. Read the thread and the NIST quotes provided. Otherwise just forget it, I was just responding to you claiming that I posted something that you apparent super intelligent human beings can easily refute. Well, I dare you to refute what I posted! I duble dog dare you! You can refute it, but the NIST has it written in black and fucking white! There is no grey area on this issue. If you disagree with me on this point, then you are way off in La-La land. This has been the only evidence that I have posted since starting these forums, and it cannot be refuted. You motherfuckers ask for fucking credible fucking sources, so I take a good chunk out of my fucking day researching this issue, and I find evidence that backs up Xtra's claims. So I fucking post the motherfucking quotes and links from the NIST webfuckingsite, but yet you deny that the evidence isn't there! Let me spell it out for you:

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Deny it, but it still exists, guissmeister. Backglass can yell and scream and spout out how much this is bullshit, and I don't have my facts straight...but that is clearly not the fucking case here. Read the thread I posted or just blow me.

Yes, all I do is yell & scream.

Fine. Use all the semantic games you want.

The bottom line is that we were attacked by terrorists, not our own government. There was NO controlled demolition. No evidence...just rumor, speculation and hearsay.

NIST also discredits the controlled demolition theory. Do you believe that part of the report? Or do you just choose the parts of the book that you wish to believe?

(Hmmm sounds like another group of people I often "yell & scream" at. )

[DaGip]

Uh? The only evidence I ever produced is provided by the NIST...check it yourself. I would have never checked up on this if Xtra hadn't mentioned it. Disprove it if you like...doubt you will.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... falls+flat

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it...

And Backglass has posted countless times rebutting that point using highlighted evidence from the NIST report. Which has been ignored every time. Yawn...

Guiss, are you illiterate? Backglass did nothing of the sort. The NIST clearly refutes the governments PANCAKE THEORY assertions. Read the thread and the NIST quotes provided. Otherwise just forget it, I was just responding to you claiming that I posted something that you apparent super intelligent human beings can easily refute. Well, I dare you to refute what I posted! I duble dog dare you! You can refute it, but the NIST has it written in black and fucking white! There is no grey area on this issue. If you disagree with me on this point, then you are way off in La-La land. This has been the only evidence that I have posted since starting these forums, and it cannot be refuted. You motherfuckers ask for fucking credible fucking sources, so I take a good chunk out of my fucking day researching this issue, and I find evidence that backs up Xtra's claims. So I fucking post the motherfucking quotes and links from the NIST webfuckingsite, but yet you deny that the evidence isn't there! Let me spell it out for you:

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Deny it, but it still exists, guissmeister. Backglass can yell and scream and spout out how much this is bullshit, and I don't have my facts straight...but that is clearly not the fucking case here. Read the thread I posted or just blow me.

Yes, all I do is yell & scream.

Fine. Use all the semantic games you want.

The bottom line is that we were attacked by terrorists, not our own government. There was NO controlled demolition. No evidence...just rumor, speculation and hearsay.

NIST also discredits the controlled demolition theory. Do you believe that part of the report? Or do you just choose the parts of the book that you wish to believe?

(Hmmm sounds like another group of people I often "yell & scream" at. )

Dude, there is no physical evidence for controlled demolition of which any major organization is coming out displaying. Backglass, I will say this that the collapse of the towers looks a lot like a controlled demo, but can I say that with absolute certainty since I am not an engineer or an architect? No. So, like you, I must accept the evidence the government has droned into me. In essence, I must submit to the presentation, until those individuals that have higher credentials than me begin to make themselves known. That is currently my stance on this issue.

The point that I was trying to make is that the NIST did refute the Pancake Theory, and that has been the only evidence I have ever posted on the subject. Guissmeister made the claim that I provided evidence of which you refuted with your NIST posts, I was only making the point that that was not so.

The NIST also goes on to say that they are looking into hypothetical blast events that may have caused the collapses. Now, my assumption what they mean by this is that since they have already stated that no evidence of a controlled demolition was found (of course they never tested for controlled demolition, you do understand that don't you?) that their next part of explaining off the collapse is by having some hypothetical blast events that somehow took out the core. Now these could range from anything, from deisel storage tanks, propane lines, or even terrorist truck bombs used in concordance with the whole event. Thusly, the term hypothetical, it gives them an out to contrive whatever scenerio they wish, but it stops short of making any direct claims.

So since there is no possible way for us to know (and I know all the theories put forth by the Truth movement) and since no one of the appropriate ilk is coming forward in this matter, I am at this moment forced to concede to the prevailing theory.

The importance of the United States remaining united, as sad as it may be and as cruel as it sounds, is much more important than three thousand lives that were lost on September 11.

I am the first to admit that when a new 9-11 post comes up, and if there is nothing new there, I just don't even bother with the theories and their purported evidence. I don't have to click on the links, because I have seen and read it all. The simple fact is the Truth Movement needs somebody from inside the government to step forward, the closest to that was Norm Menetta.

Now, I believe that there is more evidence that the President and Vice President were incompetent that day and now they are using this tragedy as a means to push a broader NeoCon agenda. That I think is the better issue to fight them with as far as I am concerned. But the whole 9-11 thing will just keep swimming around the fishbowl, just like the JFK assassination. It will be picked up on for awhile and then you won't here anything about it, then it will be picked up for awhile to boost ratings, then you won't really hear that much about it anymore...9-11 is heading into that same type of fad-like status.

The most important thing is the survival of the United States, it is too late to get all worked up over supposed conspiracies. Let those that have the credentials and the authority hash out the theories.

As I have quoted before from George Carlin: "...It's just fun, it's good speculation." and "The people that are in charge do what they want and they will always do what they want. The Power does what It wants to. And I wouldn't trust an investigation..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pow5_UYKaJ8

I wasn't posting my rant to offend anyone, I just wanted you guys to see that the NIST does indeed refute the government's Pancake Theory it tried to push on us. The government is wrong on so many points that WE as citizens have to be wary of its claims. Thusly, the war in Iraq, the uranium in Africa...the government's incompetence has given every American and nonAmerican citizen grounds to question its every move and decision. Right now, you are looking at a war with Iran. Why? Because the government is throwing scary words out again. It's the same thing, over and over. They do not have the support for a war with Iran until Iran supposedly does something seemingly evil and dastardly, or someone within Iran does something similarly likewise.

Afghanistan didn't attack us...the Taliban attacked us. Iraq didn't attack us, Sadam was just selling his oil in Euros from what I could muster. I guess that is an economic attack, but we are getting attacked economically all the time! We don't make up lies and go to war with them.

Bush has definitely made America more unsafe, even though we haven't had another major terrorist attack since 9-11. Our support in the world has diminished along with our credibility. This is going to take a while to repair. And Muslim-extremists are flocking to become terrorists. The United States is making more terrorists because of our crappy foreign policy right now.

So, anyway...I kind of got off on a tangent. All this old 9-11 stuff serves no good, as we have already talked about it again and again. If someone could post something that would really open my eyes, that would be great. Something in which none of us could refute...just like the Pancake Theory falling flat.

If anything, 9-11 should serve to unite us, not divide us! America is too important to throw it away because of some conspiracy theories.

That is my stance on the matter.

[Dekloren]

Thiomersal (INN) (C9H9HgNaO2S), formerly and still commonly known in the United States as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) used as an antiseptic and antifungal agent.

Next time you go get a flu shot, ask to the see ingredients.

If you see Thiomersal......IT'S MERCURY.

And when you do ask, they will probably tell you it isn't in there. You see, thimerosal was removed from ALL US vaccines for children under 6 in 1999 and most others for adults as well due to an outrcy that it was causing Autism. For what it's worth...Instances of Autism have actually INCREASED since this happened. Shocker.

Thimerosal has been used as a preservative in Vaccines since 1930. You receive more mercury from eating TUNA once a week then you would by getting a (now non-existent) thimersol vaccine.

Oh...and don't complain about healthcare costs when you see your vaccine cost have increased 10-fold due to storage issues. It was there for a reason...not for mind control.

But thats probably the "Gubmint" just trying to stick it to us again, isn't it. I am sure you have a theory.

These are families who followed the rules. These are families who brought children in for vaccines. These are families who immunized their children.” — Thomas Powers, attorney for children with autism and their families

The U.S. Court of Federal Claims is currently hearing the testimony of families with children with autism who attribute the onset of their children’s difficulties to immunizations which contained the substance thimerosol, a substance containing mercury, which for years was commonly present in MMR vaccines (measles-mumps-rubella) in combination with other vaccines containing thimerosol. Thimerosol is a preservative. In 1982 the FDA called for the removal of thimerosol in over-the-counter products because of its toxicity, but it continued to be used in immunizations. In 1999, the FDA recognized that the amount of thimerosol in immunizations exceeded federal safety guidelines set by the Environmental Protection Agency. While licensing new vaccines, the government had failed to add up the cumulative effect of thimerosol delivered in all of the doses required in a full vaccination regimen. In 1999, the U.S. government asked that drug manufacturers expeditiously eliminate or reduce the use of the substance, but it is still present in some immunizations. Although we hear warnings about eating too much seafood containing mercury, there have been no warnings about mercury in vaccines. Some symptoms of autism resemble symptoms of mercury poisoning.

Studies performed on the link between thimerosol and autism have not established a link. But 4,800 families, who trace their children’s autism to having received immunizations, and who have filed claims, say that the science used to dispute the link is flawed.

The families are seeking compensation under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. In this court, the burden of proof is easier than in Federal Court. Parents only have to prove that the link between autism and the immunization is more likely than not, based on a preponderance of the evidence.

The Government contends the link cannot be established.

Mothers have been concerned about this link for decades. I remember having discussions about a possible link in the 1970s. I have read or heard of many situations in which a child began to have severe health problems after having received these routine immunizations including autism, inflammatory bowel disease, epilepsy, and glaucoma. Mothering Magazine has covered the developing concerns of mothers over decades now and their award-winning publication on the dangers of immunizations can be purchased here.

http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... al-claims/

[Dekloren]

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Physics refutes the pancake theory.

[Dancing Mustard]

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Physics refutes the pancake theory.

Your mom refutes the pancake theory.





In bed.

[DaGip]

THE NIST REFUTES THE GOVERNMENTS PANCAKE THEORY

Physics refutes the pancake theory.

Your mom refutes the pancake theory.





In bed.

Your Daddy made love to the Pancake Theory and put his dancing happy mustard all over it.

[Backglass]

The U.S. Court of Federal Claims is currently hearing the testimony of families with children with autism who attribute the onset of their children’s difficulties to immunizations which contained the substance thimerosol, a substance containing mercury, which for years was commonly present in MMR vaccines...blah blah blah

I am not saying that Thimerisol is a benign chemical. I am saying it was there for a reason in it's day and wasn't put there by the government in order to poison the masses. It is/was a preservative...the best available for the application at the time. Should better preservatives be found & used? Absolutely. Is Thimersol use in vaccines part if a deep government plot to poison US children and control our minds? No.

And like I said...Thimersol hasn't been used since 1999, yet Autism is increasing. Logic would lead one to believe that if it were such a major trigger we should at least see a decrease...which we do not.

Here is the kicker. My youngest daughter (3) is on the Autistic spectrum. She has never had a single Thimerisol vaccine. I do not blame Vaccines...her neurologist believes it is actually evolution taking place before our eyes. IE: Genes mutating.

Wow...what a thread THAT would be. The creationists, evolutionists AND Tin Foil Hat crowd all together.

[Dekloren]

Hey Luns.

Got something for you!

Usama bin Laden Says the Al-Qa'idah Group had Nothing to Do with the 11 September Attacks

Interview published in newspaper Ummat Karachi, 28th September, 2001

The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent", published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September, place and date of interview not given.

UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

UMMAT: A number of world countries have joined the call of the United States for launching attacks on Afghanistan. These also include a number of Muslim countries. Will Al-Qa'idah declare a jihad against these Islamic countries as well?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I must say that my duty is just to awaken the Muslims; to tell them as to what is good for them and what is not. What does Islam say and what do the enemies of Islam want. Al-Qa'idah was set up to wage a jihad against infidelity, particularly to counter the onslaught of the infidel countries against the Islamic states. Jihad is the sixth undeclared pillar of Islam. [The first five being the basic holy words of Islam ("There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God"), prayers, fasting (in Ramadan), pilgrimage to Mecca and giving alms (zakat).] Every anti-Islamic person is afraid of jihad. Al-Qa'idah wants to keep jihad alive and active and make it a part of the daily life of the Muslims. It wants to give it the status of worship. We are not against any Islamic country. We do not consider a war against an Islamic country as jihad. We are in favour of armed jihad only against those infidel governments, which are killing innocent Muslim men, women and children just because they are Muslims. Supporting the U.S. act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan. The orders of Islamic Shariah [jurisprudence] for such individuals, organizations and countries are clear and all the scholars of the Muslim brotherhood are unanimous on them. We will do the same, which is being ordered by the Ameer-ul-Momeneen [the commander of the faithful] Muhammad Omar [leader of the Taleban] and the Islamic scholars. The hearts of the people of Muslim countries are beating with the call of jihad. We are grateful to them.

UMMAT: The losses caused in the attacks in New York and Washington have proved that giving an economic blow to the U.S. is not too difficult. U.S. experts admit that a few more such attacks can bring down the American economy. Why is Al-Qa'idah not targeting their economic pillars?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them. So the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word.

UMMAT: Why is harm not caused to the enemies of Islam through other means, apart from the armed struggle? For instance, urging the Muslims to boycott Western products, banks, shipping lines and TV channels.

USAMA BIN LADEN: The first thing is that Western products could only be boycotted when the Muslim fraternity is fully awakened and organized. Secondly, the Muslim companies should become self-sufficient in producing goods equal to the products of Western companies. Economic boycott of the West is not possible unless economic self-sufficiency is attained and substitute products are brought out. You see that wealth is scattered all across the Muslim World but not a single TV channel has been acquired which can preach Islamic injunctions according to modern requirements and attain an international influence. Muslim traders and philanthropists should make it a point that if the weapon of public opinion is to be used, it is to be kept in the hand. Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done.

UMMAT: The entire propaganda about your struggle has so far been made by the Western media. But no information is being received from your sources about the network of Al-Qa'idah and its jihadi successes. Would you comment?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In fact, the Western media is left with nothing else. It has no other theme to survive for a long time. Then we have many other things to do. The struggle for jihad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His bondsmen. Our silence is our real propaganda. Rejections, explanations, or corrigendum only waste your time and through them, the enemy wants you to engage in things which are not of use to you. These things are pulling you away from your cause. The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.

UMMAT: What will be the impact of the freeze of Al-Qa'idah accounts by the U.S.?

USAMA BIN LADEN: God opens up ways for those who work for Him. Freezing of accounts will not make any difference for Al-Qa'idah or other jihad groups. With the grace of Allah, Al-Qa'idah has more than three alternative financial systems, which are all separate and totally independent from each other. This system is operating under the patronage of those who love jihad. What to say of the United States, even the combined world cannot budge these people from their path. These people are not in hundreds but in thousands and millions. Al-Qa'idah comprises of such modern educated youths who are aware of the cracks inside the Western financial system as they are aware of the lines in their hands. These are the very flaws of the Western fiscal system, which are becoming a noose for it and this system could not recuperate in spite of the passage of so many days.

UMMAT: Are there other safe areas other than Afghanistan, where you can continue jihad?

USAMA BIN LADEN: There are areas in all parts of the world where strong jihadi forces are present, from Indonesia to Algeria, from Kabul to Chechnya, from Bosnia to Sudan, and from Burma to Kashmir. Then it is not the problem of my person. I am a helpless fellowman of God, constantly in the fear of my accountability before God. It is not the question of Usama but of Islam and, in Islam too, of jihad. Thanks to God, those waging a jihad can walk today with their heads raised. Jihad was still present when there was no Usama and it will remain as such even when Usama is no longer there. Allah opens up ways and creates loves in the hearts of people for those who walk on the path of Allah with their lives, property and children. Believe it, through jihad, a man gets everything he desires. And the biggest desire of a Muslim is the life after death. Martyrdom is the shortest way of attaining an eternal life.

UMMAT: What do you say about the Pakistan Government policy on Afghanistan attack?

USAMA BIN LADEN: We are thankful to the Momin and valiant people of Pakistan who erected a blockade in front of the evil forces and stood in the first file of battle. Pakistan is a great hope for the Islamic brotherhood. Its people are awakened, organized and rich in the spirit of faith. They backed Afghanistan in its war against the Soviet Union and extended every help to the mojahedeen (freedom fighters) and the Afghan people. Then these are very Pakistanis who are standing shoulder by shoulder with the Taleban. If such people emerge in just two countries, the domination of the West will diminish in a matter of days. Our hearts beat with Pakistan and, God forbid, if a difficult time comes we will protect it with our blood. Pakistan is sacred for us like a place of worship. We are the people of jihad and fighting for the defense of Pakistan is the best of all jihads to us. It does not matter for us as to who reforms Pakistan. The important thing is that the spirit of jihad is alive and stronger in the hearts of the Pakistani people.

End of Interview

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Source: Ummat, Urdu-language daily newspaper based in Karachi, Pakistan - Friday, 28 September 2001 - pages 1, 7. Source: BBC Monitoring Service.

[Frigidus]

Hey Luns.

Got something for you!

Usama bin Laden Says the Al-Qa'idah Group had Nothing to Do with the 11 September Attacks

Interview published in newspaper Ummat Karachi, 28th September, 2001

The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent", published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September, place and date of interview not given.

UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

UMMAT: A number of world countries have joined the call of the United States for launching attacks on Afghanistan. These also include a number of Muslim countries. Will Al-Qa'idah declare a jihad against these Islamic countries as well?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I must say that my duty is just to awaken the Muslims; to tell them as to what is good for them and what is not. What does Islam say and what do the enemies of Islam want. Al-Qa'idah was set up to wage a jihad against infidelity, particularly to counter the onslaught of the infidel countries against the Islamic states. Jihad is the sixth undeclared pillar of Islam. [The first five being the basic holy words of Islam ("There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God"), prayers, fasting (in Ramadan), pilgrimage to Mecca and giving alms (zakat).] Every anti-Islamic person is afraid of jihad. Al-Qa'idah wants to keep jihad alive and active and make it a part of the daily life of the Muslims. It wants to give it the status of worship. We are not against any Islamic country. We do not consider a war against an Islamic country as jihad. We are in favour of armed jihad only against those infidel governments, which are killing innocent Muslim men, women and children just because they are Muslims. Supporting the U.S. act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan. The orders of Islamic Shariah [jurisprudence] for such individuals, organizations and countries are clear and all the scholars of the Muslim brotherhood are unanimous on them. We will do the same, which is being ordered by the Ameer-ul-Momeneen [the commander of the faithful] Muhammad Omar [leader of the Taleban] and the Islamic scholars. The hearts of the people of Muslim countries are beating with the call of jihad. We are grateful to them.

UMMAT: The losses caused in the attacks in New York and Washington have proved that giving an economic blow to the U.S. is not too difficult. U.S. experts admit that a few more such attacks can bring down the American economy. Why is Al-Qa'idah not targeting their economic pillars?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them. So the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word.

UMMAT: Why is harm not caused to the enemies of Islam through other means, apart from the armed struggle? For instance, urging the Muslims to boycott Western products, banks, shipping lines and TV channels.

USAMA BIN LADEN: The first thing is that Western products could only be boycotted when the Muslim fraternity is fully awakened and organized. Secondly, the Muslim companies should become self-sufficient in producing goods equal to the products of Western companies. Economic boycott of the West is not possible unless economic self-sufficiency is attained and substitute products are brought out. You see that wealth is scattered all across the Muslim World but not a single TV channel has been acquired which can preach Islamic injunctions according to modern requirements and attain an international influence. Muslim traders and philanthropists should make it a point that if the weapon of public opinion is to be used, it is to be kept in the hand. Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done.

UMMAT: The entire propaganda about your struggle has so far been made by the Western media. But no information is being received from your sources about the network of Al-Qa'idah and its jihadi successes. Would you comment?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In fact, the Western media is left with nothing else. It has no other theme to survive for a long time. Then we have many other things to do. The struggle for jihad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His bondsmen. Our silence is our real propaganda. Rejections, explanations, or corrigendum only waste your time and through them, the enemy wants you to engage in things which are not of use to you. These things are pulling you away from your cause. The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.

UMMAT: What will be the impact of the freeze of Al-Qa'idah accounts by the U.S.?

USAMA BIN LADEN: God opens up ways for those who work for Him. Freezing of accounts will not make any difference for Al-Qa'idah or other jihad groups. With the grace of Allah, Al-Qa'idah has more than three alternative financial systems, which are all separate and totally independent from each other. This system is operating under the patronage of those who love jihad. What to say of the United States, even the combined world cannot budge these people from their path. These people are not in hundreds but in thousands and millions. Al-Qa'idah comprises of such modern educated youths who are aware of the cracks inside the Western financial system as they are aware of the lines in their hands. These are the very flaws of the Western fiscal system, which are becoming a noose for it and this system could not recuperate in spite of the passage of so many days.

UMMAT: Are there other safe areas other than Afghanistan, where you can continue jihad?

USAMA BIN LADEN: There are areas in all parts of the world where strong jihadi forces are present, from Indonesia to Algeria, from Kabul to Chechnya, from Bosnia to Sudan, and from Burma to Kashmir. Then it is not the problem of my person. I am a helpless fellowman of God, constantly in the fear of my accountability before God. It is not the question of Usama but of Islam and, in Islam too, of jihad. Thanks to God, those waging a jihad can walk today with their heads raised. Jihad was still present when there was no Usama and it will remain as such even when Usama is no longer there. Allah opens up ways and creates loves in the hearts of people for those who walk on the path of Allah with their lives, property and children. Believe it, through jihad, a man gets everything he desires. And the biggest desire of a Muslim is the life after death. Martyrdom is the shortest way of attaining an eternal life.

UMMAT: What do you say about the Pakistan Government policy on Afghanistan attack?

USAMA BIN LADEN: We are thankful to the Momin and valiant people of Pakistan who erected a blockade in front of the evil forces and stood in the first file of battle. Pakistan is a great hope for the Islamic brotherhood. Its people are awakened, organized and rich in the spirit of faith. They backed Afghanistan in its war against the Soviet Union and extended every help to the mojahedeen (freedom fighters) and the Afghan people. Then these are very Pakistanis who are standing shoulder by shoulder with the Taleban. If such people emerge in just two countries, the domination of the West will diminish in a matter of days. Our hearts beat with Pakistan and, God forbid, if a difficult time comes we will protect it with our blood. Pakistan is sacred for us like a place of worship. We are the people of jihad and fighting for the defense of Pakistan is the best of all jihads to us. It does not matter for us as to who reforms Pakistan. The important thing is that the spirit of jihad is alive and stronger in the hearts of the Pakistani people.

End of Interview

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Source: Ummat, Urdu-language daily newspaper based in Karachi, Pakistan - Friday, 28 September 2001 - pages 1, 7. Source: BBC Monitoring Service.

The Ummat Karachi? Really. Note that this was before Afghanistan was invaded. If he had said "Yup, I did it. Wasn't it awesome?" he'd have had no chance of preventing the invasion. Afterwards though he had nothing to lose and told the truth. No surprise.

[Guiscard]

Furthermore, regarding the bin Laden denial, the interview wasn't in person. Questions were submitted to Talbian officials (who, remember, would have been fairly eager not to be known to hold someone who has just carried out the most notorious terrorist attack ever and, consequently, leave themselves open to invasion). The newspaper received written replies, nothing that could be verified as from bin laden in person.

[comic boy]

So one Pakistani newspaper prints the truth whilst almost the entire global media aids a conspiracy....insane isnt it

[Dekloren]

Links to back up your opinions?

Also, the Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden as long as the US provided evidence. I can't seem to find the vid on youtube, but it's in LooseChange Final Cut. It's a video of a Taliban official stating that he'll hand over bin Laden once the US presents evidence.

Funny!!

[Dekloren]

9/11 was an inside job.

[Backglass]

9/11 was an inside job.

9/11 was an attack.

[Dekloren]

An attack on liberty and freedom!

[jimboston]

The "no" answer doesn't warrant a reply.

You my man MUST be wearing a tin foil hat.

Please tell me you have one on now!

[DaGip]

The "no" answer doesn't warrant a reply.

You my man MUST be wearing a tin foil hat.

Please tell me you have one on now!

Like this?

[Backglass]

An attack on liberty and freedom!

[DangerBoy]

ANOTHER CONSPIRACY, I CAN'T TAKE IT!!