1/16 Mafia *Game Over* 1 Left

[MountainLion]

Okay, so kwanton is the only dead mafia member...problem is he only posted once on day 1 and it was a vote on Fircoal which gives us zero leads from kwanton.

Also LS was third party, so you can't get leads with that either.

I found a unified vote on LV that included Mandy and Tonka who are now both confirmed pro-town. Yes, it happens to include me, but that's not the point. I don't care about that, it proves nothing on me. The point is it's two confirmed town players voting on the same person. Yes, day 1 is difficult to say they're right about it, but I think it's worth noting:

some how i think ml and mando are more right than the group....free thinkers of the world unite.....lynch people who want to end days when its a chatty game (if only we could get it to not be spam and actual discussion)

Vote LV

If I may, let me explain a little further why we should lynch LV...on page 12 LV posted the following:

plus i think i read somewhere that she was friends with fircoal in real life and he definitely is on enough to post that for her.

they met on another site..
her prob is she is only on w/e i think
but yer

vote ls i say we should get this moving. i dnt want day 1 to spread out to like 20 pages of bs

At this point LS had 7 votes on her for basically not posting during the week which is a reason, but not a great reason to lynch someone, especially if they could be replaced. After LV posted that I pointed it out and voted him.

vote ls i say we should get this moving. i dnt want day 1 to spread out to like 20 pages of bs

Those "20 pages of bs" might contain clues. I always tend to believe that scum like fast days even if they're day 1. Unvote, Vote LV

Then two minutes after that kalish says:

Screw day 1, if I wanted to read random nonsense I'd just actually read mandalorian's posts instead of skimming them all.

One could view this as defending LV.

Next on page 13 SL posts the following:

Mod, if life-saver can really only post on weekends, could she be replaced please?

I know SL turned up scum, but getting LS replaced was a good idea. Then time passes by and no one bites on my LV vote. I'm thinking the replacement idea is a good one if we don't hear from her....but what would scum do? I think they would want a fast lynch. If they're mafia, they want anyone who's not mafia to be lynched. If LS is replaced or given time to roleclaim, that might clear her and the chance of mafia being lynched gets reset...or worse they are lynched because they've been targeted already (LV?).

So this is when I test to see who wants a quick lynch AFTER SL suggests a replacement, thus guaranteeing a defense or roleclaim which stops a lynch on a non-mafia member from their point of view. This is what I say at the top of page 14:

So those of you voting LS are doing it because she doesn't post during the week? That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me if she doesn't post at all....is this true?

Unvote

Notice that I put an "Unvote" in there to simulate that I'm ready to vote LS. Now look at the two posts after that...it's LV and kalish saying basically the same thing. That LS doesn't post during the week. LV never changes his vote, and kalish adds his vote and says "Lets just do this and get this day over" once again wanting to speed things up.

A little later Mandy mentions my previous vote on LV and agrees with a vote even though I unvoted. I see his post and put my vote back on LV, thus putting 2 votes on him.

SL mentions once again trying to get a replacement for LS because Fircoal was yet to reply. The next post is kalish:

We're not gonna hit scum Day 1, if we do it's pure luck.

I say finish off l-s and move on, day 1 is boring as hell.

It appears to me that he doesn't want LS to be replaced. One could also say it looks like he's getting the focus off of LV who has 2 votes now. He just wants to lynch her and start night 1. What to mafia want to do on Day 1? They want to lynch someone non-mafia quickly and then get into night 1 so they can make a kill.

Fircoal finally shows up and says LS will be replaced..."most likely." Firth votes LS. Mandy changes his vote on Firth. I don't know why, but it's for the same reason he voted LV because it's like they're trying to lynch them quickly, so I'm suspicious of Firth as well. FOS Firth

Middle of page 16 LV says:

mmm...i dont mind not ending the day, what i meant was if we wait for ls to answer herself thats another 4 rl days...eeets a long time is all

Then Fircoal sets the limit by saying "if she does not post by tomarrow she will be replaced." This is a concrete decision by Fircoal that guarantees LS won't be lynched unless someone is stupid enough to do it, and no one's that dumb. So what happens next?

thanks chu...

*i started whinging to him on msn

Unvote, vote: ga7

We might as well lynch the actual scum...

In these two posts LV and kalish change their tune accepting that (in my eyes) their attempt to lynch LS quickly, failed.

Later on she roleclaims third party. We all discuss if third party is a good lynch or not, blah blah blah and so on. LV and kalish are part of the twelve votes. Voting on a third party doesn't leave a trail either way, so they're safe. BUT I believe the fact that they wanted to lynch so quickly without hearing any defense at all from LS (who turned up non-mafia) and seemingly trying to avoid her replacement as well, this all looks scummy to me.

Mandy and Tonka, both proven pro-town, voted LV. kalish appears to be on the same page as LV. I'm proposing we lynch one of them and if they turn up scum we may be able to follow the same logic to lynch the other if we think they're scum buddies.

I'm suspicious of others, but this is where my focus is because I feel I've found some clues to back it up.

Now I ask all of you, what do you think?

[CrabNebula]

Great assessment! Have to agree with you, Lovo was acting kinda desperate to get Lifesaver lynched. So I would vote him first. Also more input after I reread the thread.

[dustn64]

Wow, big and convincing post. I'm not sure if I will make my vote yet though. LoVo and Kal should speak up.

[lord voldemort]

yar im just reading now...it does sound convinving, i know im not scum. and there is a way for my claim to be proven but it requires outting an important town role. so i dnt heaps wanna do that.
in regards to a few of ml's points.
some of which ive already answered in this thread,
the whole me and kal thing. i think thats just timing. also me and kal are 2 decent enuf players that if we were both scum we wouldnt link ourselves like this intentionally

i didnt want this game to spread into 20 pages of bs. i wasnt the only person who wanted to lynch ls or get her replaced. hence i was happpy when chu got her replaced. i rather not play a game where day 1 lasts longer than a week. there is a point where day 1 gets pushed by scum (quick lynches) and when the game just drags out and gets fricken annoying.


and u are right ml. ls doesnt post during the week. she posts on weekends only. a mafia game u should post almost every dya if not every second day, if not then why bother playing, it annoys me that now the mafia games are going down hill. the days are dragging on beacause of submariners and gear.

i also dont htink 2 votes on me out of the possible 15 to get lnched is attn. spec when yours was a day or so b4.


i never changed my tune. i was always for either an ls lynch or to be replaced for the simple fact was she wasnt active. i then cornered him on msn cause he refused to answer people in this thread about the ls deal. which actually means it was me that finally persuaded chu to replace her. he never wanted to because ls is his fave, they have known each other on net forums for a while. so yer. twas me that finally convinced him to replace her. (or well to look at replacing her)

also you must remember mandy is i think one of the best 3 mafia players on this site. any scum team would make him an early target.

yer. i think this answers most things

[Neutrino]

Good work MountainLion. From what you've written, Kalish seems the most scummy, though LoVo isn't far behind.

Vote: Kalish
FOS: LoVo

I don't know why you kept mentioning that two confirmed Pro-Town players voted the same person, though. Neither of them had any day-investigative powers, so their votes would have been based off simple intuition, like everyone else. If one was a Day Cop and the other was a Mason with that Day Cop it would be excellent evidence, but as it is neither of them had a better chance of hitting scum than the average townie.

[firth4eva]

Well ML your FOS on me is wrong because I just skimmed the hell out of Day 1 because it was a fircoal game and his day one's can be very stupid.

[cena-rules]

Well ML your FOS on me is wrong because I just skimmed the hell out of Day 1 because it was a fircoal game and his day one's can be very stupid.

I did that too

[Russianfire8371]

good job mountainlion

I dont think Kalish and LV are together in this. I would assume that they've played this game long enough to not do something stupid like that, but you never know -shrug-.

I honestly think Kalish looks scummier, just because of how he wanted to get rid of LS saying that they won't hit scum, and that its pure luck, and that it doesn't matter, and then changed his vote to GA7 to 'lynch the actual scum'

Like you said, it just looks like that the LS lynch failed, and that he was trying desperatly to start another lynch bandwagon.

I'm not going to vote yet. I wanna reread through the posts and see what i can find.

[Russianfire8371]

Unvote, vote: ga7

We might as well lynch the actual scum...

Actual scum? But you said...

We're not gonna hit scum Day 1, if we do it's pure luck.

I say finish off l-s and move on, day 1 is boring as hell.

I was joking, I'm sorry ML; ga7, Serbia and I constantly accuse/vote each other in games during times of slow going/deadlock. Notice how ga didn't even respond? Usual thing.

It was just a joke and a cover for me to remove my vote on l-s so she doesn't get scum-hammered until we figure out what's going on. I don't like leaving someone at lynch -1, we then leave day-ending control in scum hands (assuming they all aren't already on the wagon) effectively giving them 2 kills in this day/night phase (assuming l-s is town).

Slow going/deadlock? We were debating whether or not LS was a good person to lynch, and you decided to start joking around?

I don't think anyone would've responded to your vote just because of how random and retarted it was.

[firth4eva]

Upon re-reading vote kalish

[kalishnikov]

Something really long that if I quote will screw up the page.

I ALWAYS push for a lynch, every game, every day. If you were in the last few games I've been in (sorry for the metagame here) you'd be pretty fed up with inactives and submariners dragging the game to a complete stop which leads into my reasons for wanting to follow through with the l-s lynch, if you've played with her before you'd know she was useless in a mafia game, the quoted posts taken out of context can very easily be bent to look like they were protecting LoVo, sure, but pretty much any series of posts removed from their original pretext can be spun whichever way the quoter likes.

You are mistaking a desire to lynch someone who won't give us any help for a desire to lynch ANYONE, presumably to draw the heat of LoVo. If that was the case though, I would have waited till he had more then 2 votes on him, as it took 12 to lynch, if I was trying to keep a scum-buddie alive. Do you really think I'd be stupid enough to link myself to anyone this early in the game? Especially if we actually were scum together? Come on...

My defense is irrelevant anyway, the way mafia works here now if someone makes a long post, whether it makes any sense or not, about someone the rest of the people say 'of yea, like totally those are such good reasons, vote: whoever the post was about' because no one can think or formulate their own theories anymore and they all bandwagon mindlessly until the game is over.

Lynch away, nothing I say will make a lick of difference anyway; common sense and thinking are foreign concepts to mafia anymore and my desire to play has been dwindling greatly over the last few weeks because of behavior typified be a few players in this thread. When Fir posts the scene, you'll know that I'm right (and it will clear LoVo).

[kalishnikov]

Unvote, vote: ga7

We might as well lynch the actual scum...

Actual scum? But you said...

We're not gonna hit scum Day 1, if we do it's pure luck.

I say finish off l-s and move on, day 1 is boring as hell.

I was joking, I'm sorry ML; ga7, Serbia and I constantly accuse/vote each other in games during times of slow going/deadlock. Notice how ga didn't even respond? Usual thing.

It was just a joke and a cover for me to remove my vote on l-s so she doesn't get scum-hammered until we figure out what's going on. I don't like leaving someone at lynch -1, we then leave day-ending control in scum hands (assuming they all aren't already on the wagon) effectively giving them 2 kills in this day/night phase (assuming l-s is town).

Slow going/deadlock? We were debating whether or not LS was a good person to lynch, and you decided to start joking around?

I don't think anyone would've responded to your vote just because of how random and retarted it was.

Did you even read my second post that you quoted or are you just that stupid?

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Vote Cena basically all he did in day 1 was post a vote on life saver and then a 2nd post to say that he'll post more on day 1. Neither of those posts were groundbreaking thoughts. Good research on the game so far though ML although I don't think both of them are scum as they are experienced enough to not get themselves linked like that on day 1.

[nagerous]

I'm currently of the view that Russian or Cena are the best lynches for the day. Unfortunately it appears we have no other leads at the moment other than mindless bandwagons etc. I'll report back when I have done more re-reading.

[jnd94]

ML's post is hard to argue with, and LoVo and Kalish both look like shady fellows. I haven't been in many games with LoVo, so I don't know his playing style. Kalish however did have a good explanation, so vote LoVo

[ga7]

Messy long post as I read up!

What where how?!

Aww freck!

It's all your fault....

Here Willis could mean he hided behind Mandy (it might be a random comment as he should know better than deadtalk and Fir should spank the monkey for that if it's true still a clue).

My theory is mafia cop and SK tried to hit frenchie-chan PGO.

I find this a very questionable statement. As the likelihood of Kwan being NKed early on is not very high (though he is currently getting payback from his usual strategy seemingly, so not certain on that), it could be that he targeted the PGO. That would mean mafia already knows the PGO's identity. Though if we analyze the NKs further, there's many more possibilities:
5 NKs: 1 mafia 1 sk 1 hider 1 vig 1 insane doc
1 mafia 1 sk 1 possible second mafia (doubtful but not unlikely considering Fir likes small scum teams) or 1 second sk (way more likely) 1 hider 1 insane doc or vig
1 mafia 1 sk 1 hider 1 insane doc or vig 1 pgo
So basically, not only does your theory lacks any realism but more importantly tries to deter any possible protection for my loved-by-nkers arse. Which would be a very smart and subtle thing to do if you are scum, as you might be listened. No matter how I look at it I find it very untownie of you to even mention it. FOS Nag

Now, about the case ML made against Lovo & Kalish. I feel he might read a bit too much into things for some of his points (I know, very credible of me to say that after the nag thing ) like the one about GT & Mandy voting Lovo (granted, these two have their moments but I don't think it mean much so early in the game except for lucky "random intuition" rolls on their part ). Overall though, he brings about some very good points as they fit the impatient scum profile pretty well. There's also one thing that I often see as scumtell in Fir games, it's that "oh it'll be spam anyway let's hurry and lynch we'll learn nothing" recurrent argument. Not only it's very wrong, but I always see scum use it.
However, I doubt they really could be both linked, and Lovo makes sense in his defense, he showed consistency in his behavior and I kinda got a hunch on what his role implies (though that in no way clears him).
Kalish's post makes me tick on the other hand; more so than the actual case on him.

I ALWAYS push for a lynch, every game, every day. If you were in the last few games I've been in (sorry for the metagame here) you'd be pretty fed up with inactives and submariners dragging the game to a complete stop which leads into my reasons for wanting to follow through with the l-s lynch, if you've played with her before you'd know she was useless in a mafia game, the quoted posts taken out of context can very easily be bent to look like they were protecting LoVo, sure, but pretty much any series of posts removed from their original pretext can be spun whichever way the quoter likes.

There you make some good points, but to be fair the game was fairly more active than others for a day 1 and even if it was a bit long, and felt pretty low on the submariners side.

You are mistaking a desire to lynch someone who won't give us any help for a desire to lynch ANYONE, presumably to draw the heat of LoVo. If that was the case though, I would have waited till he had more then 2 votes on him, as it took 12 to lynch, if I was trying to keep a scum-buddie alive. Do you really think I'd be stupid enough to link myself to anyone this early in the game? Especially if we actually were scum together? Come on...

I also don't buy the link theory, but (and this addresses some of the following posts) it's way better lead-wise to not get into a process of "lynch all "useless" people, then lose the good town people via NK, then scum wins" heh

My defense is irrelevant anyway, the way mafia works here now if someone makes a long post, whether it makes any sense or not, about someone the rest of the people say 'of yea, like totally those are such good reasons, vote: whoever the post was about' because no one can think or formulate their own theories anymore and they all bandwagon mindlessly until the game is over.

Lynch away, nothing I say will make a lick of difference anyway; common sense and thinking are foreign concepts to mafia anymore and my desire to play has been dwindling greatly over the last few weeks because of behavior typified be a few players in this thread. When Fir posts the scene, you'll know that I'm right (and it will clear LoVo).

I find this part panicky and pretty ridiculous. You had 2 votes on you, as people sensibly were holding their votes and not bandwagonning like mad (though it might also be a suspicious behavior depending on what you in fact are ), and you seem all desperate. ML manages to put a case together out of a day 1 not particularly rich in events, and it makes sense. Hence worth digging into. The way you react under so little (real) pressure is fishy IMO, cause all in all there's nothing really worth getting fed up with if you're town.
Vote Kalish the scared scummy commie

[cena-rules]

re-reading


vote lovo

also I love ML.

I think lovo today and then kal tomorrow

[diddle]

Something really long that if I quote will screw up the page.

I ALWAYS push for a lynch, every game, every day. If you were in the last few games I've been in (sorry for the metagame here) you'd be pretty fed up with inactives and submariners dragging the game to a complete stop which leads into my reasons for wanting to follow through with the l-s lynch, if you've played with her before you'd know she was useless in a mafia game, the quoted posts taken out of context can very easily be bent to look like they were protecting LoVo, sure, but pretty much any series of posts removed from their original pretext can be spun whichever way the quoter likes.

You are mistaking a desire to lynch someone who won't give us any help for a desire to lynch ANYONE, presumably to draw the heat of LoVo. If that was the case though, I would have waited till he had more then 2 votes on him, as it took 12 to lynch, if I was trying to keep a scum-buddie alive. Do you really think I'd be stupid enough to link myself to anyone this early in the game? Especially if we actually were scum together? Come on...

My defense is irrelevant anyway, the way mafia works here now if someone makes a long post, whether it makes any sense or not, about someone the rest of the people say 'of yea, like totally those are such good reasons, vote: whoever the post was about' because no one can think or formulate their own theories anymore and they all bandwagon mindlessly until the game is over.

Lynch away, nothing I say will make a lick of difference anyway; common sense and thinking are foreign concepts to mafia anymore and my desire to play has been dwindling greatly over the last few weeks because of behavior typified be a few players in this thread. When Fir posts the scene, you'll know that I'm right (and it will clear LoVo).

And how does that work? You say you and LoVo are in no way linked, and its all a matter of coincidence that you're both playing similarly. Why then, would lynching you clear LoVo? FOS Kalish, my vote will not be won so easily though.

Oh and cena, you're not helping yourself, try contributing somehting of substance.

[firth4eva]

Diddle, I think he was saying that if he and LoVo were scum buddies and kalish came out town it would clear him. (if you understand)

[kalishnikov]

Diddle, I think he was saying that if he and LoVo were scum buddies and kalish came out town it would clear him. (if you understand)

Exactly what I meant, if I come up town (which I will) that would presumably clear LoVo.

[kalishnikov]

Vote Kalish the scared scummy commie

Not scared, pissed scummy commie would be more appropriate.

And I will say is was fucking pissed at mafia the day I wrote that long-winded quote and could have handled myself better but meh.

I always push for a lynch, regardless of my role or alignment, thats what I do. I like to see things happen and to see talking and accusations, even if they are at me. It's been slow going lately and I don't like mafia games like that, I'd rather be thought scummy and lynched as a townie then sit in a boring game, waiting patiently to be NK'ed (not saying this game is boring, a general euphemism for mafia at the moment).

[diddle]

Diddle, I think he was saying that if he and LoVo were scum buddies and kalish came out town it would clear him. (if you understand)

Exactly what I meant, if I come up town (which I will) that would presumably clear LoVo.

I disagree. The bolded parts in my previous post are all times where you say you (and presumebly your role) have absolutely nothing to do with LoVo. So regardless of what alignment we get if you're lynched, LoVo will still be under scrutiny.

[kalishnikov]

Diddle, I think he was saying that if he and LoVo were scum buddies and kalish came out town it would clear him. (if you understand)

Exactly what I meant, if I come up town (which I will) that would presumably clear LoVo.

I disagree. The bolded parts in my previous post are all times where you say you (and presumebly your role) have absolutely nothing to do with LoVo. So regardless of what alignment we get if you're lynched, LoVo will still be under scrutiny.

Thats fine with me, I don't know what/who LoVo is in this game. I choose poor words, let me rephrase:

When my role is revealed it will clear LoVo and I of being connected as my role is clearly stand-alone.

Does that make more sense towards your statement? I worded poorly, sorry.

[diddle]

Yeah, thats better. Damnit, I was gonna vote you for that aswell.......

[kalishnikov]

lol well I'm glad I cleared that up then.

This connection between LoVo and I was completely misconstrued do to ML's post. At no time did I actually do anything to defend/draw heat off of LoVo, ML just thought that and presented some put-of-context quotes which kinda look like that, but it's not the case.