The Permaban Penalty

[KoE_Sirius]

Well thats all sorted then.

[decoulombe]

In the case of Norse's "Which race should be destroyed" topic, I am pretty sure that it was ment as either a straight out joke or a mear mental excercise, rather then a begining of a fascist regime led by Norse. If Norse has been serious and if he menages to convince a few million idiots to support his war against another culture in an effort to enforce "The Norse Way Of Living", I will admit that I have been wrong, but not before. The fact that someone might have interpreted his topic as a call for racial hate, does not necessarily make this the case. This is where the whole problem lies.

The Mods, IMO, don't care enough about interpreting someone's posts in the correct fashion. All they care about is mentaining the apparence that racism is not tolerated on these forums. It's easier for them to impose their authority by dealing out punishments and stamping out the freedom of speach which has made these forums so great a year ago when I joined. DISCUSSING IDEAS OF ANY KIND IS A GOOD THING! I for one am always interested to hear the reasoning behind the beliefs that are foreign to me. If I find the flaw in that reasoning, I can argue against it, but only if the other person is allowed to expres his/her ideas. This kind of censorship makes a powerfull argument for the racists, by creating an impression that racists are de facto fighting for the freedom of speach!
Do the Mods care that their actions are in fact enpowering racists? No! All they care about is mentaining the illusion that they are doing their job. They don't care about doing the right thing, because they are preocupied with how their actions will look. If you care about how your actions will look to others, you clearly don't know what the hell you are doing.

Your lawyer’s analysis is brilliant, but meaningless in comparing with the case of Norse. Even if what you say is true, (and I agree with much of what you say, the analysis part that is), the fact is its obvious the mods don’t want this kind of talk in the forums. In the case of Norse, whether or not he intended to do it or not, is unimportant. As the facts are revealed, Norse for whatever reason continuously disregarded the mods’ warnings and suspensions and continued to post his material on the forums. Keep in mind when reading, I don’t take either side, with or against Norse. And I don’t pretend to know the mind of Norse, so I will not judge whether or not Norse intended to do what he did or not.

I will give you another example. I’m tired of hearing Norse, so I will talk about some different forums, my own.

I currently am a owner for a forum, and mod for two more: One phpBB2, one phpBB3, and one yahoo. One my own phpBB2 forum, one of my jobs is to routinely scans for those who “post” offensive material, that is what I deem as offensive, including certain adult material commonly known as porn. Now, you can argue how healthy this material can be, or even argue whether or not the material is really adult or not, or even argue that by banning this material, I’m really feeding porn lovers, really empowering them. You can argue that all I care about is maintaining the illusion that I am doing my job. That I don't care about doing the right thing, because I am preoccupied with how my actions will look. That if I care about how my actions will look to others, etc., etc., etc, but the real fact is, I don’t want porn. Sorry, and I band people, IP addresses, report it, and even delete forums that post such material. Yes, there are ways to go to another IP address, or make another name, but I will do all I can because that is my job.

What I hear throughout this whole post, is people blaming the cop for enforcing the rules, or blaming the owner for throwing the person he deems offensive off his private property. Yes, CC is a business, and Lack is the owner, and Twill is the enforcer. And like it or not, need it or not, it’s there. If you don’t want to follow the rules, don’t play the game. Kindly stop badmouthing the mods if they don’t go your way and go to another forum who’s owner will allow such talk.

And no, by the way, I don’t blindly agree with the rules. It is true they may need adjusting and improvements, but as long as they are ethical and moral in my own conscious, I will follow them and not post material in which the mods approve through their own conscious.

I am also getting very tired of posting in this forum, so I think, unless anything else come up, I will no longer be here, I ask the rest of you to do so as well
_________________
The abstinence of rules is chaos.

[InkL0sed]

I was about to respond but decoulombe posted a better one. Well said.

[mybike_yourface]

hobo wars has a jail system.

[Napoleon Ier]

Norse was banned by a completely discretionnary punitive measures, which is surely not justice.
He also didn't actually post anything specifically offending anyone, but conducted a civilized debate.
Lastly, he has his free speech, which, although technically can be restricted on a private site, is nonetheless a basic freedom which should be guaranteed by the moderation.

[Snorri1234]

He also didn't actually post anything specifically offending anyone, but conducted a civilized debate.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40340 is not civilized debate, nappy.

Lastly, he has his free speech, which, although technically can be restricted on a private site, is nonetheless a basic freedom which should be guaranteed by the moderation.

No it shouldn't.

[yeti_c]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40340 is not civilized debate, nappy.

Hmmm - is it not the case that the people who voted on that Poll also contributed to the racism (well the people who chose "Blacks" & "Far East Asians")

C.

[Snorri1234]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40340 is not civilized debate, nappy.

Hmmm - is it not the case that the people who voted on that Poll also contributed to the racism (well the people who chose "Blacks" & "Far East Asians")

C.

Don't know. They can't actually see who voted can they?
Also I said:
I really don't want anyone to die, we are like, a transmogrified field of love...I cry.
because it was funny.

[Iliad]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40340 is not civilized debate, nappy.

Hmmm - is it not the case that the people who voted on that Poll also contributed to the racism (well the people who chose "Blacks" & "Far East Asians")

C.

actually anyone who voted is contributing to the racism

[khazalid]

y'all shuddup and play risk now

[dcowboys055]

Give enough 2 sided information so that the masses can make a informed VOTE.

The onus is on the Mods to provide satisfactory information as to WHY the current system is operating fairly.

Addressing Hecter's question would be a good start: Why do interesting and articulate flamers receive permabans while spam-happy posters are allowed to remain. The system is obviously flawed and is deserving of attention.

I ask you, "Wise Man", to provide some "2 sided information" to this discussion. We only hope it isn't "2 faced."

Of course, as you point out, you neither "know norse" nor "why he was banned." So perhaps you should quietly usher yourself out of this conversation, cease with the baseless interjections and bring in the Mod(s) responsible for the permaban.

Lastly, this is not "your forum" but, in actuality, OUR forum. If you'd like to be useful to your constituents, huddle up with your fellow Mods and determine WHO issued the permaban and WHY the permaban was issued.

We will not be put off with lame responses such as "offensive language" or "inappropriate comments" We want to see proof, in the form of actual posts, in determining whether or not WE THE CONQUER CLUB COMMUNITY (Majority) believes the Mods (Minority) acted with due cause.

What a douche, YOU obviously do not know wacicha or you'd shut your mouth.

[Big Yuma Ripper]

Plain and simple to me...the guy got what he deserved! Just not soon enough from what i can see. We don't need crap like him dirtying up our forums or site.

[owenshooter]

What a douche, YOU obviously do not know wacicha or you'd shut your mouth.

ditto...-0

p.s.-dcowboy, you know it pained me to agree with you!! sigh...

[Nephilim]

twill completely pwned everyone w/ his logic and eloquence.....i'm no cop-lover, but everything looks above board from my perspective.

norse knew what he was doing and what consequence he would face. rules must be enforced to have any meaning. it really can't be any simpler than it is.......

[LSU Tiger Josh]

It's a shame we still have idiot trolls like V.I. around. I know Twill gave a very well thought out response and I have personally never had a problem with the mods. It's easy enough to follow the rules. If you don't follow the rules then you choose to accept the punishment that comes your way.

[autoload]

I actually agree with the first post.

[hasaki]

If your stupid enough to break the rules then you should be permaban.
There there for all to see.

and Napoleon Ier next time you wish to make an argument please back it up with some evidence.

[jiminski]

Norsey .. Norsey!
He added a lot to the forums and he is my friend
Many of his 'views' or at least depiction there of, along with much of his language were anathema to me.

That is the beauty of him and part of why i'll miss him so acutely .. i will not tolerate racist language in any shape unless i know it to be 100% irony used to highlight a stereotype of a racist.
Some of which Norses was, some perhaps was not. This is where 'racist' rhetoric becomes illusive in definition.


It's complicated.. if you know him, you know that a lot of his tools were about entertainment and playing with peoples sanctimony .. (Satire designed to hang the onlooker with their own exaggerated indignation; a little in the same way as Chris Morris and Brass eye/The Day Today etc.)

Many of his views on Immigration were genuine of course.
What his posts highlighted was that if you couple the taboo which racism is to most of us, with the genuine problem of open immigration policies we end up with impotence!

Any viewpoints on the dynamics and implications of immigration get brushed under the carpet... this is due to the hijacking of this issue by the far right and then the retaliation by the moderates .. hehe and 'Liberals'.

For me it has always been the case of: I will ignore any tangible issue of negative affects caused by immigration in favour of maintaining a united front against the 'Far Right Racists'!
In a sense Norse made us see the folly of that stance and the spiralling towards discontent which this leads to.

Racism is absolutely wrong and yet the ideological antithetical perspective which stands as adversary in the face of all other facts becomes paradox; playing into the hands of the far right.
As without a measured policy, which accepts the limited resources of a nation, negative affects will become evident to the existing members of the society.
Members who perhaps deal in instinct more than high minded ideology; those at the cutting edge who are affected in real terms!!
If these members of a society are isolated at the expense of lazy, convenient and high-minded principle, then the problems of race polarisation escalate to a point where it should not have.

I will say i still hold my lazy, convenient and high-minded principles on immigration. I would rather a society where we compromise our success and some of our members to uphold absolute equality as paramount! In so doing we improve all of our members!

But damn! Norse made us face our easy perspectives and justify lazy ideology!

I thank him for that!

[dcowboys055]

What a douche, YOU obviously do not know wacicha or you'd shut your mouth.

ditto...-0

p.s.-dcowboy, you know it pained me to agree with you!! sigh...

lol, I'd think so

[alex_white101]

Norsey .. Norsey!
He added a lot to the forums and he is my friend
Many of his 'views' or at least depiction there of, along with much of his language were anathema to me.

That is the beauty of him and part of why i'll miss him so acutely .. i will not tolerate racist language in any shape unless i know it to be 100% irony used to highlight a stereotype of a racist.
Some of which Norses was, some perhaps was not. This is where 'racist' rhetoric becomes illusive in definition.


It's complicated.. if you know him, you know that a lot of his tools were about entertainment and playing with peoples sanctimony .. (Satire designed to hang the onlooker with their own exaggerated indignation; a little in the same way as Chris Morris and Brass eye/The Day Today etc.)

Many of his views on Immigration were genuine of course.
What his posts highlighted was that if you couple the taboo which racism is to most of us, with the genuine problem of open immigration policies we end up with impotence!

Any viewpoints on the dynamics and implications of immigration get brushed under the carpet... this is due to the hijacking of this issue by the far right and then the retaliation by the moderates .. hehe and 'Liberals'.

For me it has always been the case of: I will ignore any tangible issue of negative affects caused by immigration in favour of maintaining a united front against the 'Far Right Racists'!
In a sense Norse made us see the folly of that stance and the spiralling towards discontent which this leads to.

Racism is absolutely wrong and yet the ideological antithetical perspective which stands as adversary in the face of all other facts becomes paradox; playing into the hands of the far right.
As without a measured policy, which accepts the limited resources of a nation, negative affects will become evident to the existing members of the society.
Members who perhaps deal in instinct more than high minded ideology; those at the cutting edge who are affected in real terms!!
If these members of a society are isolated at the expense of lazy, convenient and high-minded principle, then the problems of race polarisation escalate to a point where it should not have.

I will say i still hold my lazy, convenient and high-minded principles on immigration. I would rather a society where we compromise our success and some of our members to uphold absolute equality as paramount! In so doing we improve all of our members!

But damn! Norse made us face our easy perspectives and justify lazy ideology!

I thank him for that!

what he said (hot fuzz reference noted?)

also i want norse back, he was a laugh.