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Postby Lazy_Pilgrim on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:44 am

Any scott calling for independence is a hypocrite, first example that springs to mind is tuition frees... now why was it that scottish ministers voted to introduce fees to english constituencies but not their own (the west-lothian question) if anyone wants to look at the causes.

Scottland is not a country un military occupation and yes it is true that we (the english) did a lot of bad in Scottland over the centuries. But you need to put down your placards for just one second and ask yourselfs if you truly believe the english care if you leave. Without monetary aid (as mustard i believe pointed out) and the gross over-payment per head for scotish and english tax spending. You would simply become another 2nd world country. Scotland would really struggle to grow economically simply.

The reson you england wales and N.Ireland have prospered is because we became the united kingdom, think of the balkans in the eairly 1990`s the UK could have been very much like that region without the union of our 4 countries. Small petty nations fighting over very little. I dont want to see that for my country and niether should you.
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Postby Lazy_Pilgrim on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:44 am

sorry double posted
Last edited by Lazy_Pilgrim on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:44 am

but surely you are against having someone (and a representative) who is just born into the job, more powerful than the person Australia voted for as our leader
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby Neutrino on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:15 am

bellaraphon wrote:but surely you are against having someone (and a representative) who is just born into the job, more powerful than the person Australia voted for as our leader


Really, I don't think it's an issue. In the X number of years the position has existed (probably well into triple digits) only a single Govenor-General has performed any noteworthy acts, ever.
Technically the Govener-General has the authority to do whatever they want, but if you push technical authority too far you are liable to end up in a sack, far out at sea.
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Postby Balsiefen on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 am

bellaraphon wrote:but surely you are against having someone (and a representative) who is just born into the job, more powerful than the person Australia voted for as our leader


This is monarchy, voting has nothing to do with it. And Australia is a Brittish colonial state, therefore we share the same monarch. She lives in Britain because britain is the mother nation from which the colonies came from.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:35 am

bellaraphon wrote:yep i live in aus and personally i think it sucks that the queen is our head of state. we are thousands of kilometres away from the UK yet we've got this stupid figurehead sitting at the top of our government. she's even on our currency, i mean, what did the queen ever do to deserve this.
Oh I don't know, perhaps her family had something to do with the founding of your nation or something? Maybe it's something like the nation you're currently banging on about being non-existant until the British Monarchy approved of legislation to allow deportation, and then later passed legislation to allow Commonwealth nations to form independent states? I mean, I'm only taking random stabs in the dark there... but perhaps that's the sort of thing that might give the British Monarchy some serious historical attatchement to your nation? What do you reckon?

bellaraphon wrote:and all this stuff that has to be passed through to the governor-general (the queen's representative) is ridiculous.
Then shut up, go to your local MP and get it changed. Your parliament has complete power to abolish the position, but the fact is that the majority of Australians continue to vote against the idea. It's not like you're being oppressed here, you've got the power to change things just the minute that you actually want to. Seriously go read something that isn't an Australian tabloid, then come back and debate this issue properly.
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Postby heavycola on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:42 am

darvlay wrote:And what tyranny do you face today that makes succession so imperative? I was under the impression that Scotland was an autonomous nation. Is it merely a matter of pride?


When Scots stop eating the chips on all their shoulders, they will a) stop this nonsense and b) stop dropping like flies from heart disease.

I grew up in Aberdeenshire, lived in Scotland for 20 years. I love it. But the anti-English chippiness does my head in. north of teh border - 'english bastards this, english bastards that'. South of the border - 'uh, scotland?'
DM is right, the benefits Scotland gets from its richer neighbour are disproportionate -and i don't think anyone in england cares that much.
Honestly. Stop whinging. No one is being oppressed.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:51 am

heavycola wrote:But the anti-English chippiness does my head in. north of teh border - 'english bastards this, english bastards that'. South of the border - 'uh, scotland?'
I'm so glad that someone else said that... it's 100% true.

If you don't believe me, go to a Scottish pub when England are playing sport versus any random nation, then go to an English pub and watch Scotland playing sport against a random nation. What's the difference going to be you ask? Well the Scottish bar will be filled with anti-English chanting, moaning and jeering, whereas the English bar will be filled with people cheering on the UK side.

I just don't get why Scottish (and Welsh) nationals have such a massive complex about the English, especially when said complex isn't backed by facts or reciprocated on the other side of the border. Strange stuff indeed.
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Postby Gypsys Kiss on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:10 am

Well said DM =D>
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:00 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:Oh I don't know, perhaps her family had something to do with the founding of your nation or something? Maybe it's something like the nation you're currently banging on about being non-existant until the British Monarchy approved of legislation to allow deportation, and then later passed legislation to allow Commonwealth nations to form independent states? I mean, I'm only taking random stabs in the dark there... but perhaps that's the sort of thing that might give the British Monarchy some serious historical attatchement to your nation? What do you reckon?


that is history and if you didn't realise, we live in the present. sure, you founded us, but ever since you've never done anything good for australia except include us in your wars. there is no reason why the queen should be our head of state other than the history part, but hey, lets just chuck some criminals over here to settle this place.

as for the MP stuff, it takes more than one person to change something as big as this.
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:11 pm

bellaraphon wrote:that is history and if you didn't realise, we live in the present.
Wtf! When the hell did that happen? Why didn't somebody tell me? I had no fucking idea!

bellaraphon wrote:sure, you founded us, but ever since you've never done anything good for australia except include us in your wars.
That and provided you with favourable trading terms with both ourselves and other Commonwealth nations, terms which, I might add, are what allow you to enjoy the high standards of living which you experience today; standards which are in fact the single most defining aspect of your nation's culture.
But no, you're right, the fact that we gave you the entire machinery of state that runs your country, and then provided you with the economic leg-up to have it run the way it currently does isn't really a big deal... it's all ancient history isn't it, what with it having no relevance at all to how Australia functions on a day to day basis?

How could I have been so blind?

bellaraphon wrote:there is no reason why the queen should be our head of state other than the history part
Would you care to provide another potential justification for somebody being a purely symbolic head of state? If you manage to do so, then feel free to point out a country that uses your system.

Have fun doing that, see you some time next century...

bellaraphon wrote:as for the MP stuff, it takes more than one person to change something as big as this.
No fucking shit? I had no idea that MPs couldn't just pass arbitrary laws as they saw fit...

So how do rules get made in Australia if MPs can't just make up one rule per day? Its worked here for centuries, why are you guys so different?
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:17 pm

you gave us absolutely no "economic leg-up" we are a self built nation. we didnt need your "help" (though you didnt really give us any) we have all the resources and space to maintain ourselves.
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:18 pm

and our biggest trade is with asian countries, not any commonwealth counries. so no help there either. and you still havnt given a feasable reason as to why we should keep the queen.
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:24 pm

bellaraphon wrote:and our biggest trade is with asian countries, not any commonwealth counries. so no help there either. and you still havnt given a feasable reason as to why we should keep the queen.

You haven't actually given me one for getting rid of her... you kind of need to do that before I have to give you anything.


Did you ever think up the alternative justification for a symbolic head of state by the way?

You didn't? Well why doesn't that shock me...


Seriously, get that chip off your shoulder and move on from your weird inferiority complex... you're sounding like a Scotsman or something.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:40 pm

bellaraphon wrote:you gave us absolutely no "economic leg-up" we are a self built nation. we didnt need your "help" (though you didnt really give us any) we have all the resources and space to maintain ourselves.


What?
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Postby Gypsys Kiss on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:51 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
bellaraphon wrote:you gave us absolutely no "economic leg-up" we are a self built nation. we didnt need your "help" (though you didnt really give us any) we have all the resources and space to maintain ourselves.


What?


He must mean the fact that they import no raw materials, no manual labour, no foreign scientists and no inventors.
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:54 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:Did you ever think up the alternative justification for a symbolic head of state by the way?


can you re-phrase that in a more simplistic form, and why would you care if we got rid of her your a pom.
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:30 pm

bellaraphon wrote:your a pom.
Wow, cracking out the racial epithets already... Way to prove that you're not labouring under some bizarre and unfounded persecution complex.

bellaraphon wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Did you ever think up the alternative justification for a symbolic head of state by the way?
can you re-phrase that in a more simplistic form
Sorry, did that fly over your empty little head... my bad. Here, I'll state the question in a nice simple way for you, just like I did the first time you avoided answering it:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Would you care to provide another potential justification for somebody being a purely symbolic head of state [as opposed to 'history]? If you manage to do so, then feel free to point out a country that uses your system.
Think you can manage to come up with something semi-coherent to defend your position now? No? Ahh well, at least you tried hard eh...
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Postby Skittles! on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:38 pm

I really don't know what you're crying about. She's a symbolic head-of-state. Nothing more, nothing less. She appears on our coins. OH NOEZ, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! If you don't like looking at the side of her head on a coin, don't look at it! Simple.

And DM, you pom! Go away, pommy. :lol:
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:41 pm

Skittles! wrote:And DM, you pom! Go away, pommy. :lol:
If I said that using the words 'nigger', 'spic', 'paki' or 'beaner', then I'd get banned. Sometimes I weep for the injustices of this world...
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Postby Skittles! on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:46 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:
Skittles! wrote:And DM, you pom! Go away, pommy. :lol:
If I said that using the words 'nigger', 'spic', 'paki' or 'beaner', then I'd get banned. Sometimes I weep for the injustices of this world...

Would you rather I call you a wanker? I think Pom is a nice word, no racist intent, just to call the British, poms.
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:49 pm

if the head of state is purely symbolic, why do we need her, she is not a necessity. our government should be like the US, we elect the head of state, who actually does something.
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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Postby Skittles! on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:51 pm

bellaraphon wrote:if the head of state is purely symbolic, why do we need her, she is not a necessity. our government should be like the US, we elect the head of state, who actually does something.

We do elect the head of the state, he's currently called Kevin Rudd.

The head of state - Commonwealth wise - is the Queen. She is symbolic, and she appears on all the coins that are in the Commonwealth.

Do you understand now?
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:53 pm

bellaraphon wrote:if the head of state is purely symbolic, why do we need her, she is not a necessity. our government should be like the US, we elect the head of state, who actually does something.


Whoopsie!

Looks like you failed to answer the question:
Dancing Mustard wrote:
bellaraphon wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Did you ever think up the alternative justification for a symbolic head of state by the way?
can you re-phrase that in a more simplistic form
Sorry, did that fly over your empty little head... my bad. Here, I'll state the question in a nice simple way for you, just like I did the first time you avoided answering it:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Would you care to provide another potential justification for somebody being a purely symbolic head of state [as opposed to 'history]? If you manage to do so, then feel free to point out a country that uses your system.
Think you can manage to come up with something semi-coherent to defend your position now? No? Ahh well, at least you tried hard eh...

Care to try again? Or are you conceding the point?
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Postby bellaraphon on Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:54 pm

im not trying to avoid the question but i simply don't understand your political terms. are you asking me to name a country that uses the same system as australia
unriggable wrote:
Neoteny wrote:How big is the perfect penis?


Let's just say that the tower of Babel is a mistranslation.
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