....

[Craig25]

Hi Kaiser

Suggestions are always good. Any really good ones get put to the vote of all Super League Players for implementation. It's called a Sep-Poll.

History of Super League: I ran amazing Tournaments (if I don't say so Myself). Got to the stage any Tournament I started got 200 Runners. The only way you could start an ongoing Tourney like this is by commanding that sort of engagement. It is CC's 1st succesful one to be ongoing. And the largest by far, so far circa 100,000 games have been played in it. Loads of Tournaments were ran to try out different concepts. So this formulae was not just stumbled upon. And indeed, some of your ideas have already been tried, and although they didn't fail. They were not anywhere near as good as the current format.

But it seems a bit confusing with promotion 2-3 levels, or relegated similar, wonder if u tried to merge levels..

For New Players starting in one of the bottom 4 Leagues, they must have an opportunity to advance through Leagues quickly. That perception is crucial for new players joining. So Multiple League Promotions asre required. It's not confusing, look to the right of the League table and it shows you where you get promoted to for finishing in that position. Plus with colour coding, it is pretty simple to understand. I'll get to the bit why having bigger Leagues and smaller promotions don't work in a minute.

With 250 players
What about making the season a bit longer, starting more games each round

Currently 262 Players, but we need more. So go tell everyine that this Event Rocks! The biggest complaint from potential new players. Game Count. So that does not work. Also, we used to start 4 Match Ups on the 1st Day of every Season. More people dropped out than do currently with 3 Match Days being started. Plus, every Multiple Match Day Set Up, some players ignore some invites (to only accept them later), because they may feel they have too many games. These players will end up being KICKED though as it's a hassle re-inviting the same players. The Missed Invites counter was included for exactly that reason.

Primer league 24 players (4 down)
Championship 24 players (4 up and 6 down) from (4th to 7th playoff)
League one 48 players (2 groups) - (each group 1st and 2nd direct promotion) from 3rd to 6th promotion playoff - 6 down from each group)
League two 96 players (4 groups) - top 2 up and from 3rd to 6th promotion play off for each group to complete 12 teams for those who relegated from league one

Multiple things wrong here. Every Season, 44 Super League Players Membership expires. Some will not renew. Some players will be KICKED from the Super League for stuff that comes up in Real Life, some will be KICKEd for continually missing game invites, and some will even be KICKED because they are absolute Dicks (beleive it or not). The more you extend the length of a Season the more players will be KICKED every Season. The larger the Leagues, the more players from that League will be KICKED every Season. So basically, you want a Season to last no longer then 2 Months. But you need enough games so that the best players can overcome the luck factors and Rise to the Top. 72 Games in a 2 Month period is already decent going.

Play Offs do not work. Players like fast moving Tournaments. CC auto Tournaments are chronic. Players forget they are in a Tournament because 1 game in 1 match takes forever and the next round does not start for ages. Play Offs were tried in the European Super League. And all it means is it extends the length of every Season by Weeks or even Months while a handful of players play play-offs. The other 95% of the players get bored! That is the reason that the Tie-Breakers cover every angle.


You did have one point. The longevity of a Premier League RISK player is not good with 60% (minimum) of Premier Players being RELEGATED to make way for the Multi-League Promotions. It;s the only League that has this problem. And it was put to the Players in a Sep-Poll that we should increase the Premier to 12 or 14 Players. It was voted down by the players as they preferred to keep it at 10 Players! I wanted more, but that's the way the Cookie Crumbles, or, that's the way the Jobbie Splashes as we say in Scotland.

You are now up to date. Keep the suggestions coming M8 and Good Luck!

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

That's a real tough one Carl. Because fast and furious works when the SLOWEST Maps are BANNED. And what are the SLOWEST Maps on current Settings will not be the SLOWEST Map on other Settings.

So that could mess up the delicate balance of playing enough games to make a Season competitive and to allow the best players to balance out the luck between fast and furious (being able to complete a Season in 2 months). Currently we have enough predicted scores left at the end of any Season.

I like two month fast n furious as it lets me win more leagues.
Who cares how many get relegated from the premier a fresh batch of cannon fodder is always welcome.

My idea
Craig how about a vote each season or something on the settings.

Vote A vote for spoils.
Vote B vote for fort option.

I.e. People might think No spoils reduces variability and lets them win more often etc and are sick of flat rate / adj.

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

It adds a whole load of complexity to boot as a Sep-Poll would be required every Season on just that 1 thing alone. Nuclear would also lengthen most games.

So the only settings to be considered are FR/Esc, Chained/Adj. It does'nt offer much variance when you consider the variety of maps we are playing and the ability to change your HOME map every Season.

Plus, Tourney has been going 2 years and it's very popular. So I'm not up for adding more work every Season for little upside M8.

That's a real tough one Carl. Because fast and furious works when the SLOWEST Maps are BANNED. And what are the SLOWEST Maps on current Settings will not be the SLOWEST Map on other Settings.

So that could mess up the delicate balance of playing enough games to make a Season competitive and to allow the best players to balance out the luck between fast and furious (being able to complete a Season in 2 months). Currently we have enough predicted scores left at the end of any Season.

I like two month fast n furious as it lets me win more leagues.
Who cares how many get relegated from the premier a fresh batch of cannon fodder is always welcome.

My idea
Craig how about a vote each season or something on the settings.

Vote A vote for spoils.
Vote B vote for fort option.

I.e. People might think No spoils reduces variability and lets them win more often etc and are sick of flat rate / adj.

I'm not sure settings other than no fort will change the speed much. In fact better fort or esc speeds it up. You could simply use the speed from the last set to determine map in or out.

[Tviorr]

Enjoying the thoughts and insights into why the tourney setup is the way it is.

Im wondering about a thing briefly touched upon. - The massive promotions and more to the point relegations.

I see the point of new players being able to move up quickly. I agree its a neccessity. - However, it has crossed my mind that for the top leagues it could be a concern that its (presumably) easy to relegate back out. - Im assuming that the top leagues are generally and fairly consistently filled with players that are intelligent and fairly dedicated and of course some will mainly have a big mouth . - This may of course not hold up completely as fatigue and the need of a longer break than rest seasons can accomodate may and will occur for veteran players as well eventually.

I dont really have much of an argument for it, but I like the idea that it could get a bit harder to promote to and relegate from the top leagues. Not really sure how the practicalities of it would work out and Im not really making a suggestion as such, just discussing it... Possibly the premier league could relegate only 2 teams, championship and League 1 only 3 teams and the promotions adjusted accordingly. I dont have a complete picture as to what exactly that means, but essentiall the super promotions would slow down a little bit from hmmm League 4 and up?

Im thinking that while this would mean a couple of seasons longer to get to the premier league, its not a game changer for new players and players moving steadily upwards. It would however mean that once you made it to the top leagues its markedly easier to stay there and will allow longterm players suffering from limited game fatigue to spend a few seasons of less invested energy and still retain League levels.

Is this something that has been considered, or could be?

[Craig25]

Nope, nobody has considered making it harder to reach the Premier. But, if it went to a Poll, most players would vote against it.

In addition, Every Year, players can take 6 months off the Super League as REST SEASONS. So, I am missing why players would exhaust themselves.

The simple solution is, a BIGGER Premier League, but, it was voted down by the players in a Sep-poll.

After 12 Seasons of improvements to the League, it will be tough to improve it further, tough, not impossible. So Tviorr, keep thinking, cause you may just stumble on something!

Enjoying the thoughts and insights into why the tourney setup is the way it is.

Im wondering about a thing briefly touched upon. - The massive promotions and more to the point relegations.

I see the point of new players being able to move up quickly. I agree its a neccessity. - However, it has crossed my mind that for the top leagues it could be a concern that its (presumably) easy to relegate back out. - Im assuming that the top leagues are generally and fairly consistently filled with players that are intelligent and fairly dedicated and of course some will mainly have a big mouth . - This may of course not hold up completely as fatigue and the need of a longer break than rest seasons can accomodate may and will occur for veteran players as well eventually.

I dont really have much of an argument for it, but I like the idea that it could get a bit harder to promote to and relegate from the top leagues. Not really sure how the practicalities of it would work out and Im not really making a suggestion as such, just discussing it... Possibly the premier league could relegate only 2 teams, championship and League 1 only 3 teams and the promotions adjusted accordingly. I dont have a complete picture as to what exactly that means, but essentiall the super promotions would slow down a little bit from hmmm League 4 and up?

Im thinking that while this would mean a couple of seasons longer to get to the premier league, its not a game changer for new players and players moving steadily upwards. It would however mean that once you made it to the top leagues its markedly easier to stay there and will allow longterm players suffering from limited game fatigue to spend a few seasons of less invested energy and still retain League levels.

Is this something that has been considered, or could be?

[Tviorr]

Yeah, blind chickens and all that

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Shoe555]

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

I agree totally, chained and no spoils would make this tournament much better.

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

Adj in my opinion means it's more skillful, my aim was to create a Tournament in which the best players could reach the top. Chained in my opinion makes it less skillful. So, I'm not up for that.

And secondly, Flat Rate is more exciting than no spoils. It again requires Skill to know when to cash and to know when you have to cash a low ranked set. I'm not changing ot to a Tournament that requires less skill.

However, I'm about to start a Tourney that will be Chained and Escalating. So I will see how that goes before commenting further.

And Carl, this ain't the most succesful Tourney in CC History for nothing you know Beleive it or not, I know how to compose a Mean Tourney!

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

[Craig25]

Around 100,000 Super League Games don't Lie. You should sign up instead of commenting without playing shoe555

But in the mean time, 100,000 Super League Games says I'm right and you don't know whether it's New Year or New York! lol, nah, seriously Bro, jump in, the waters deep in those lower Leagues!

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

I agree totally, chained and no spoils would make this tournament much better.

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

Dear 'The Mouth'

Carl, I know the format is great. You don't get this many runners if it isn't.

To be clear, I'm not "willing to accept any changes". Only changes I will put to the Sep-Poll are changes which I think would improve the quality of the Tournament as a whole.

For reasons already provided, I do not think No Spoils will do that. It will make it a less skillful situation.

In addition, yes you have the chances of your opponent getting a 3 card Rainbow and you not getting one. But the vast majority of the time there are far more judgement calls to make that arise from the more likely distribution of the cards. Should you cash early without a Rainbow, Should you cash a smaller set knowing you have a chance for your cards to improve, Should you cash 3 of the same colour with 3 cards, should you cash a rainbow as soon as you get it or keep it for insurance. and multitude more. So as you can see, Flat Rate=More Skill the vast majority of the Time, No Cards=Less Skill the vast majority of the time.

Now, I'm busy Bro! CATCH!

Around 100,000 Super League Games don't Lie. You should sign up instead of commenting without playing shoe555

But in the mean time, 100,000 Super League Games says I'm right and you don't know whether it's New Year or New York! lol, nah, seriously Bro, jump in, the waters deep in those lower Leagues!

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

I agree totally, chained and no spoils would make this tournament much better.

The format is great Craig we are just discussing small adjustments. If you don't want to change anything I understand. And no flat rate is a pain in the backside when your opponent gets lucky with a rainbow 3. I can put up with adj fort but I think a VOTE testing opinion of flat rate v no spoils would show you are willing to accept any changes.

[Mad777]

Yes No spoils seems to be more skill set oriented, BUT:

If you are getting a bad start then your chance to come back are bare to none, while with flat rate it could help to add more spice and not take for granted your good first rounds start.
Also No spoils in some map could be overwhelming for players who are not necessarily versatile playing any map and more a new member (or less experienced), the flat rate looks more as the basic RISK rule. Keep in mind there about 250 players and a good majority do not have huge experience but more playing casually in and there.

Perhaps I have the wrong approach/opinion about the spoil thing, but personally I prefer the « Russian roulette » type and with flat rate spoils that could be a rainbow or smaller set (reds, greens, blues) rather than being 100% counting on dices without any chance to have return by using a set of spoils. Yes strategy is part of this, no doubt, but with all the strategy you can have, if you are one of like me and surely others, where you get series of games without descent dices (exemple is seeing your 8v1 attack failing) and no way to recover by having some troops to put back in the board, then I would just withdraw from this event.

Big pictures is this event having 25 leagues of 10 players from any level of experience and skills, and you need to have a good average settings that would please most of them, here again, and having followed this event since Day 1 and the first edition, the current structures has demonstrated is great potential to offer fun and opportunity.

[Shoe555]

Around 100,000 Super League Games don't Lie. You should sign up instead of commenting without playing shoe555

But in the mean time, 100,000 Super League Games says I'm right and you don't know whether it's New Year or New York! lol, nah, seriously Bro, jump in, the waters deep in those lower Leagues!

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

I agree totally, chained and no spoils would make this tournament much better.

Sorry for the comment but I did play in your tournament and I dropped out because of flat rate and adjacent forts. It’s just my opinion.

[Craig25]

Super League is for the MANY, not the few.

Cheers for your input, it's really cool you still take an interest in the Super League even although you don't play it.

Around 100,000 Super League Games don't Lie. You should sign up instead of commenting without playing shoe555

But in the mean time, 100,000 Super League Games says I'm right and you don't know whether it's New Year or New York! lol, nah, seriously Bro, jump in, the waters deep in those lower Leagues!

Well alright Craig if the criteria is just don't add more complexity. Then vote to permanently change fort to chained to speed up the games and spoils from flat rate to no spoils to reduce randomness.

I agree totally, chained and no spoils would make this tournament much better.

Sorry for the comment but I did play in your tournament and I dropped out because of flat rate and adjacent forts. It’s just my opinion.

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

"And secondly, Flat Rate is more exciting than no spoils. It again requires Skill to know when to cash and to know when you have to cash a low ranked set. I'm not changing ot to a Tournament that requires less skill."

And

"In addition, yes you have the chances of your opponent getting a 3 card Rainbow and you not getting one. But the vast majority of the time there are far more judgement calls to make that arise from the more likely distribution of the cards. Should you cash early without a Rainbow, Should you cash a smaller set knowing you have a chance for your cards to improve, Should you cash 3 of the same colour with 3 cards, should you cash a rainbow as soon as you get it or keep it for insurance. and multitude more. So as you can see, Flat Rate=More Skill the vast majority of the Time, No Cards=Less Skill the vast majority of the time"

You appear not to have read any of my replies Carl.

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

I can tell maths or probability isn't a strong point of yours Carl.......

Your rationale is so flawed it is unreal.

As for the rest, dont worry, you really couldn't annoy me if you tried Carl.

So, let's get back to you being PUMPED for the 1st time in the league! I see you were pumped silly by the goat on Waterloo....

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted.

[Craig25]

Okay Carl, I'm going to have you MUTE you for a bit. Which is a shame as I find you quite amusing.

But you made suggestions which were refused (with reasoning) and you just can't let it go. And to be honest M8, it's getting a bit boring now. And any new players listening to this pish maybe put off joining. The Super League certainly ain't boring. I ain't going to comment on your last post, but you should listen to the way you bang on Bro.

Instead, and you have brought this on yourself, I am going to tell a joke to change the subject...............(almost)

But the thing is, you have banged on so much, I'm going to need to make it a risque joke to distract people from the mundaneness of your ramblings. But, I'm going to need to do it so that it does'nt offend anyone and also so that it maintains an illusion I have built up over many years. Quite a challenge, anyway.......



JOKE:


Guy walks into a Bar. He looks dazed and confused.........like he has just listened to one of Carl's lectures on probability...........



He looks at the Barman, the Barman looks at him................

Without saying anything, the Guy pulls from his Pocket a very realistic Miniture Man in a Penguin suit and places him on top of the Bar. The Wee Guy is about this big.....



Next he pulls out a miniture Grand Piano and places that on top of the Bar. The Wee Guy in the Penguin Suit springs into life and progresses to play the most amazing music the Barman has ever heard on the miniture Grand Piano.

The Barman says 'That is the most amzing thing I have EVER saw!, where did you get it?'

Guy says, there is a Leprechaun standing outside granting one wish to evrybody entering your Bar. So the Barman rushes outside, 2 minutes later he comes back in, followed by a flock of Ducks. They get everywhere in the bar. The Bar is jam packed with Ducks. The Barman marches up to the Guy sitting at the Bar and exclaims.....'You didn't tell me the Leprechaun was DEAF!!! I asked him for a $MILLION Buck's and the next minute all these Ducks appeared'.

The Guy sitting at the Bar, still looking like he has had to endure a probability lecture from 'The Mouth' Clanlord Carl says.............'Wait, you can't actually think I asked him for a 10 Inch Pianist'...............



Now, that is the end of the matter. If you feel you wish to continue to bang on about it, do not message me or put it on Super League Forums. But please continue with you light hearted input into the Super League.

Instead you can contact CC's resident Shrink Mad777. For those that don't know, Mad77 is one of the USA's Top Psychologists. But good news for CC, he also provides Pro Bono work to players who have RISK Issues with Bad Dice/Unlucky Cards/Certain Maps/Super League Dictators. You can see from the above, he provides a very good listening ear to RISK Players seeking Therapy.

But for anybody thinking of using Mad777 for non-RISK Therapy, be warned, his prices match his prowess in the world of Psychology. The player that told me this shall of course remian nameless. But he told me he was seeking Therapy and he went to Mad777 and said.........

'How much do you charge for Therapy?'

Mad777 said '$1000 for every 3 questions'.

The Nameless player said 'WOW, is that not a bit much?'

And Mad777 allegedly said 'Some people would say that's cheap for a good psychologist, Anyway, What's your 3rd question?'.........



Okay Carl, if you have calmed down, I was'nt really going to MUTE You! But, I do hope you get PUMPED in the PREMIER this Season!

[Clanlord Carl]

Deleted all my posts on this issue.
No desire to upset anyone or put off new players.
I'll just focus on playing the game.