Conquer Club

Didn't want to jack thegreekdog's thread, so...

Nobunaga wrote:.
According to the National Adult Literacy Survey, 42 million adult Americans can't read; 50 million can recognize so few printed words they are limited to a 4th or 5th grade reading level; one out of every four teenagers drops out of high school, and of those who graduate, one out of every four has the equivalent or less of an eighth grade education.

http://education-portal.com/articles/Gr ... oblem.html

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=69

... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

You are seriously trying to say that 13% of the American population can't read at all? Where the hell did they get these statistics from? And you are saying that a fifth of the graduating class each year is illiterate? That is quite simply bull. I don't know what the actual statistic are, but they are no where near that.

They might not know either of those things, bu then again, there is little reason for a working class person to know what either of those things are. Korea has little effect on that whatsoever, and their state representative is just one of a couple hundred people who make abstract decisions that while they are important, each individual matters little.

bullshit

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system [to many people] and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

Nobunaga wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

Right, because everything that we learn in highschool is relevant. you know, all that math that you will never use outside of school, that life skills class with the flour baby because that is the same as a real baby, that damn art class I have to take to graduate. Oh yeah, I'm going to use all that knowledge for the rest of my life.

I didn't say that it was irrelevant, I said that who their representative is is unimportant to most people. Just the decisions that the representatives collectively make are important.

Nobunaga wrote:... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

I think Player meant that most Americans think our political system is irrelevant in their everyday lives. It's pretty obvious that she herself finds politics highly relevant... she spends a lot of time posting on it... you're too quick to criticize...

Burrito wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

Right, because everything that we learn in highschool is relevant. you know, all that math that you will never use outside of school, that life skills class with the flour baby because that is the same as a real baby, that damn art class I have to take to graduate. Oh yeah, I'm going to use all that knowledge for the rest of my life.

I didn't say that it was irrelevant, I said that who their representative is is unimportant to most people. Just the decisions that the representatives collectively make are important.

... Sure. I was addressing PLAYER on that "irrelevant" point.

... But c'mon! In the world we live in today, you gotta' know this stuff. Korea's location on a map may be somewhat unimportant during the day to day, but I saw people thinking it was south of Australia for crying out loud.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl= ... &resnum=4#

... Embarassing. But I guess it's all irrelevant.

...

john9blue wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

I think Player meant that most Americans think our political system is irrelevant in their everyday lives. It's pretty obvious that she herself finds politics highly relevant... she spends a lot of time posting on it... you're too quick to criticize...

... Yes, I am. It's just that the gloves come off quick when PLAYER's posting.

...

Nobunaga wrote:

Burrito wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

Right, because everything that we learn in highschool is relevant. you know, all that math that you will never use outside of school, that life skills class with the flour baby because that is the same as a real baby, that damn art class I have to take to graduate. Oh yeah, I'm going to use all that knowledge for the rest of my life.

I didn't say that it was irrelevant, I said that who their representative is is unimportant to most people. Just the decisions that the representatives collectively make are important.

... Sure. I was addressing PLAYER on that "irrelevant" point.

... But c'mon! In the world we live in today, you gotta' know this stuff. Korea's location on a map may be somewhat unimportant during the day to day, but I saw people thinking it was south of Australia for crying out loud.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl= ... &resnum=4#

... Embarassing. But I guess it's all irrelevant.

...

Sorry, I messed PLAYER's post.

Yes, it's pathetic that they don't know where it is. Yes, many Americans are absolute imbeciles. However, much of that stuff doesn't affect them in the slightest. Does it matter where North Korea is? If they are a threat, the government will take care of it. If not, then we have no reason to care in the slightest where Korea is.

... OK. Best of luck to you.

...

Nobunaga is absolutely right to be concerned, General Knowledge is absolutely vital if you do not wish to be utterly narrow minded and insular.

Edakashun? Will that get me the new "Gay Tony" for less than Wal-Mart's got it? How much is it at the Korea?
Gimme my Obama bux!

Did you just post a video of CNNN?

lol.

Nobunaga wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:.


... <EDIT> That's just literacy. You wish to see proof of lacking education? Go ask 10 random people who their state rep is. Then ask them to find... I dunno, Korea, on a map.

... You'll be amazed.

...

We did that in college one time, but those things have less to do with lack of education and more to do with irrelevance of the political system and a general US-centered media that barely acknowledges other countries exist. You have to go a bit out of your way (or at least listen to NPR) to know much about other countries.

... BS. I was tested on this in high school. Korea wasn't even that significant then.

... And it's interesting to hear you find our political system irrelevant.

...

..Irrelevance to the people interviewed.

I was, too... but I learned a lot more in College. And, I suspect there are other countries about which you knew little. Besides, we are talking adults, not recent high school graduates. People forget what they don't use/what is not important to them... and for most people, Korea falls in that realm.

joecoolfrog wrote:Nobunaga is absolutely right to be concerned, General Knowledge is absolutely vital if you do not wish to be utterly narrow minded and insular.

I agree that our education needs improvement, and thought I said so in my post (oops), but those literacy figures seem pretty low.

That is, I have heard that the average American only reads at a 5th-6th grade level, which is pretty concerning. However, the number of truly illiterates, I have been told is more around 10-million.

One problem with studies like this is that they tend to center on information that is not particularly indicative of much. A lot of people probably know the names Korea and South Korea, know a bit even about the politics and perhaps culture, but still cannot place it on a map. It is sad that they cannot, but probably more important that they understand a little about Koreans than that they be able to place it on a map.

Skittles! wrote:Did you just post a video of CNNN?

lol.

... It's from some show in the UK.

... Nice dodge though. Any opinions?

...

Are these stats from all students in the country, or just public schools? In other words, is this an product of the consistent decline in government funding for schools, or is it just and indication that, on the whole, Americans don't consider education to be all that important?

Timminz wrote:Are these stats from all students in the country, or just public schools? In other words, is this an product of the consistent decline in government funding for schools, or is it just and indication that, on the whole, Americans don't consider education to be all that important?

I have already questioned the specific stats above, but the overall issue is pretty serious.

It is really a combination of factors. Loss of funding is part, but another very big part is lack of science education at a time when science has expanded exponentially. This may not seem, on the surface, to relate to knowledge of Korea, but it really does. Because science is so poorly understood by many who teach, their entire vocabulary on the subject is limited. Certainly, you can have someone expert in history who does not know a lick of science. However, what happened is that it became "acceptable" to "dumb down" texbooks so they could be better "understood". Add in some stupid (and some intentional) PC confusion (some real desire to teach things "correctly"t hat morphed into controveries over every little thing until all that could be taught without lawsuits, in many cases, was "pablum") and you had a complete "dumbing down" and avoidance of controversy.

WORSE, kids are almost not taught critical thinking, in many areas.

It greatly varies. The variation has not so much to do with private versus public as the area. Public schools mostly tend to follow the requirements of public schools in a state. They also very much have to respond to the "culture" of an area. This shows in the schools. In the south, public and private schools alike learn about the "war between the states", not the "civil war" (just to name one example). In PA genetics has all but been struck from the curriculum.

I think it is often worse in public schools, but the problem extends to private schools as well.

... Hey hey hey, Player and I are on the same page.

... Math & science, math & science, math & science is what we need. We don't have it being taught at adequate levels in our public schools. As for funding, that varies hugely, but money isn't usually the answer. Large city near me spends 15 thousand dollars per student per year... yet 1/4 never graduate high school.

... Oh, yeah, geography, too. Guys on the street are thinking Australia is N. Korea and Tasmania is South Korea ... unbelievable.

... This vid is better, longer. Complete ignornace is demonstrated with regard to world topics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

...

That is a pretty brutal video.

It would have been funny if someone said uganda for the country with a u.

Nobunaga wrote:... Hey hey hey, Player and I are on the same page.

... Math & science, math & science, math & science is what we need. We don't have it being taught at adequate levels in our public schools. As for funding, that varies hugely, but money isn't usually the answer. Large city near me spends 15 thousand dollars per student per year... yet 1/4 never graduate high school.

... Oh, yeah, geography, too. Guys on the street are thinking Australia is N. Korea and Tasmania is South Korea ... unbelievable.

My only disagreement was in the first literacy statistics you presented. That and, too often these studies do seem to focus on too much trivial and ignore the very real deeper issues. They ignore them for the same reasons schools have all but stopped teaching them... they are harder to assess.

Its easy to say "in what year did the Korean conflict begin"? Its much harder to say "analyze why the Korean conflict happened and discuss whether you feel the divided state solution has or has not worked and why." Or even "how would your life be different if you were born in Korea instead of the US?" on a side note, we are tackling this very question in a basic way in Cub Scouts as part of their citizenship requirement.... and 4-H is doing a nice job of teaching a bit about natural resources this year. Sometimes there is more than one way to skin a cat. Still, those programs are only for parents and kids who seek them out, not the general community education

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... Hey hey hey, Player and I are on the same page.

... Math & science, math & science, math & science is what we need. We don't have it being taught at adequate levels in our public schools. As for funding, that varies hugely, but money isn't usually the answer. Large city near me spends 15 thousand dollars per student per year... yet 1/4 never graduate high school.

... Oh, yeah, geography, too. Guys on the street are thinking Australia is N. Korea and Tasmania is South Korea ... unbelievable.

My only disagreement was in the first literacy statistics you presented. That and, too often these studies do seem to focus on too much trivial and ignore the very real deeper issues. They ignore them for the same reasons schools have all but stopped teaching them... they are harder to assess.

Its easy to say "in what year did the Korean conflict begin"? Its much harder to say "analyze why the Korean conflict happened and discuss whether you feel the divided state solution has or has not worked and why." Or even "how would your life be different if you were born in Korea instead of the US?" on a side note, we are tackling this very question in a basic way in Cub Scouts as part of their citizenship requirement.... and 4-H is doing a nice job of teaching a bit about natural resources this year. Sometimes there is more than one way to skin a cat. Still, those programs are only for parents and kids who seek them out, not the general community education

... Illiteracy seems hard to define. There seems so much "in between".

... Cub Scouts? Y'all got the Pinewood Derby? I loved that, make your own car and race for the prize!

...

Nobunaga wrote:... This vid is better, longer. Complete ignornace is demonstrated with regard to world topics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

...

That's CNNN. lol

I really hope you know who the Chaser's are - a bunch of comedians who actually managed to infiltrate APEC meetings dressed up as Osama Bin Laden.

They're pretty famous in Australia because of the stunts they pull off - this year they were pulled off the air for two weeks because of one of their segments. Completely hilarious.

Never mind international matters that don't seem to affect Americans. Most Americans don't even know what their own government is doing to their own people and to the world and how that WILL effect them.

American Education is a joke, as well as the ignorance of most Americans on so many important topics--domestic as well external. But it's not just American Education that's a problem, it's the people themselves and the lack of a drive to educate themselves, to question things on a day-to-day, and to meaningfully arrive to some deeper understanding of anything in general.

Complacency and indifference is rampant.