Conquer Club

I was watching a programme a couple of weeks ago about the Chinese in Tibet. Each village had a leader who reported back to the government.
The village I saw had some evil looking woman as the state recognised village leader.
She had say over everthing that happened.
Only trouble was - she didn't have the first clue about construction, but she was telling some Tibetian builders that the cement / concrete they were knocking up needed more water. These guys weren't going to argue with this witch, and they duely added more water.
The programme returned to the building they were building a couple of weeks later, and the wall they had made was crumbling and couldn't take any load.

Sky News wrote:Authorities have vowed to punish anyone responsible for shoddy construction as the earthquake death toll soars to more than 22,069 people. The government expects the final toll to exceed 50,000.

Sky China correspondent Peter Sharp, in Mianyang, said: "There is huge anger and the government wants someone to be made accountable.

"Look at the statistics, there were more than 200,000 buildings brought down by the earthquake and among them were nearly 7,000 schools, many recently built.

"In one town, most buildings escaped unscathed but the newest buildings came down, it was the school and it cost the lives of 300 children.

"The builders and rip-off developers are putting up the buildings in masses and cutting costs on safety.

"The government says they will put the strictest penalties on these people and in China that means the death sentence.

"Someone will be facing the death penalty in the next few months - they will find people to blame for this."

I bet the wrong people get killed.

I really wish more people would understand that chinese products are sub standard. Toys have lead paint in because somewhere down the prodution line some greedy fucker, decides that this cheap paint will increase the margins.

Please try to avoid buying items made in China.

A friend of mine who took business trips to China commented that most of the buildings they construct for manufacturing wouldn't last more than a few years.

I support Danish products.

Interesting. I've been to Bangalore India and my boss has been to both Bangalore and to Bejng China. He remarked how that in Bangalore everything had to be done low tech, you never saw a back hoe or a construction crane, people would literally carry materials all the way up the building on thier backs along platforms built from very unsturdy wood. In Bejing he saw high tech construction equipment everywhere.

Now mind you substandard building construction is not new nor confined to China (consider the "big dig" in Boston where the ceiling tiles literally fell on to the car of a passing motorist and which tends to "leak") and that China is not to the same level as the rest of the world can be to some extent understandable. Somehow I have the feeling that they will be bast learners. If not, then there are enough of them there that those who remain will become fast learners.

tzor wrote:.... you never saw a back hoe .... .

Now, that's just terrible.

How are the builders supposed to relax?

Chinese products are generally incredibly cheep and, given the correct quality control from the buyer, made to the standard demanded by the customer. Most Chinese products are sourced by companies from the country of destination, so it is entirely the responsibility of the buyer to ensure the highest standard.

If inferior products reach us from China it is as much down to Western companies making vast profits and cutting corners, as it is due to non-standardised control of Chinese manufacture.

PChump wrote:

tzor wrote:.... you never saw a back hoe .... .

Now, that's just terrible.

How are the builders supposed to relax?

is a back-hoe a specialist in her field ?

jiminski wrote:

PChump wrote:

tzor wrote:.... you never saw a back hoe .... .

Now, that's just terrible.

How are the builders supposed to relax?

is a back-hoe a specialist in her field ?

No no...I cocked-up...

I thought he had initially said "Black hoe"...a typo of Black-hole...but my eyes are playing tricks on me.

Although...a back-hoe may be slang for a masseuse...

PChump wrote:

jiminski wrote:

PChump wrote:

Now, that's just terrible.

How are the builders supposed to relax?

is a back-hoe a specialist in her field ?

No no...I cocked-up...

I thought he had initially said "Black hoe"...a typo of Black-hole...but my eyes are playing tricks on me.

Although...a back-hoe may be slang for a masseuse...

I just understood it to be a lady of the night who you could poke up the dirt-box.

Pedronicus wrote:I was watching a programme a couple of weeks ago about the Chinese in Tibet. Each village had a leader who reported back to the government.
The village I saw had some evil looking woman as the state recognised village leader.
She had say over everthing that happened.
Only trouble was - she didn't have the first clue about construction, but she was telling some Tibetian builders that the cement / concrete they were knocking up needed more water. These guys weren't going to argue with this witch, and they duely added more water.
The programme returned to the building they were building a couple of weeks later, and the wall they had made was crumbling and couldn't take any load.

Sky News wrote:Authorities have vowed to punish anyone responsible for shoddy construction as the earthquake death toll soars to more than 22,069 people. The government expects the final toll to exceed 50,000.

Sky China correspondent Peter Sharp, in Mianyang, said: "There is huge anger and the government wants someone to be made accountable.

"Look at the statistics, there were more than 200,000 buildings brought down by the earthquake and among them were nearly 7,000 schools, many recently built.

"In one town, most buildings escaped unscathed but the newest buildings came down, it was the school and it cost the lives of 300 children.

"The builders and rip-off developers are putting up the buildings in masses and cutting costs on safety.

"The government says they will put the strictest penalties on these people and in China that means the death sentence.

"Someone will be facing the death penalty in the next few months - they will find people to blame for this."

I bet the wrong people get killed.

I really wish more people would understand that chinese products are sub standard. Toys have lead paint in because somewhere down the prodution line some greedy fucker, decides that this cheap paint will increase the margins.

Please try to avoid buying items made in China.

The Chinese are no more to blame than any other supplier.

In the US, here is what happens. Walmart secures a contract for a company to supply them come products. This is a HUGE deal, I suspect even those not from the US are aware of how large Walmart is. Anyway, at first, the product is made reasonably well, for a decent price. Many times (not always), it is made in the US, at this stage.

Then, once the product has become popular, Walmart comes back to that company and say "Okay, you have made it for x dollars, now we want you to cut that price by y ... As a supplier, you either meet Walmart's new price or you lose the HUGE contract.

Later, they come back again, and AGAIN say "lower the price". Usually, they will even have "suggestions" of how to do it. The pressue is intense to meet Walmart's demands. In the US, right now, you have very little choice, but to do so. Further, once Walmart sells a product for that price, everyone else is pushed to meet that price or lose sales. Lowe's is the same story, but for appliances and building materials.

Right now there are adds running for Lowes (Walmart no longer has to run these ads) saying "if they beat our price, we will meet it and give you an additional 10%". What they don't say is that Lowe's products are NOT actually the same. The product number is different. So, if you go to get a part at Sears for a product you bought at Lowe's ... you have to let them know that you have a Lowe's product or you will get the wrong part. They will say that their products are the "same". Initially, that might even be true. After a while, though you start to notice a "strange" pattern. Products that you buy at Lowe's or Walmart don't seem to last as long as others... But that usually just makes people look askance at the brand, not the store.

I try NOT to buy at Walmart. But, here is the thing. Many things are just not readily available here. The other day, my son needed a belt. I had a choice of either driving 30 miles to buy one at Sears or some other store ... or go to Walmart. I went to Walmart. Further, even had I driven those 30 miles, my choices would still be limited to other chains. There is a Goodwill, with used items, a couple of specialty shops with prices too high for our moderate income.
The story is the same around the country. I KNOW the impact Walmart has. I WILL pay more at my local grocery store because I want that store to stay open. But, I know many others who don't see that as an option. If they can buy 3 mangoes at Walmart for $ 0. 99 each, versus $1.50 each ... they go to Walmart. I will just buy something else. My kids, therefore, rarely get Mangoes .. but we live in PA.

Anyway, to blame "the Chinese" or "Chinese products" only is putting the blame in the wrong place. The blame goes to each and every one of us who buys cheaply without considering HOW that product came to be cheap. If it is cheap becuase they are able to hire someone in Nepal for $1 and hour... and that person can live well on that $1 and hour .. . then maybe that is OK. Maybe not, but maybe. HOWEVER, if, as is so often the case, that product is cheaper because the people making it are working in poor conditions for poor wages, because "pesky" environmental regulations meant to protect our clean air and water are being ignored ... then, we have no one but ourselves to blame when we find clean water and air scarce.

jiminski wrote:I just understood it to be a lady of the night who you could poke up the dirt-box.

Oh jimi, what ever happened to you? You used to be ever such a nice lad.

PChump wrote:

jiminski wrote:I just understood it to be a lady of the night who you could poke up the dirt-box.

Oh jimi, what ever happened to you? You used to be ever such a nice lad.

just getting into the gutter for old times sake mate

Walmart utterly failed to make it into the German market a few years ago, the local retailers were more efficient.

MeDeFe wrote:Walmart utterly failed to make it into the German market a few years ago, the local retailers were more efficient.

In most of Europe, the idea of driving 10 miles ( never mind 30) to get basic goods, seems extraordinary. Also, land to make huge "super centers" such as we have here is not so prevalent. That, and I think some import restrictions and such had a bit to do with the inefficiency ... but I might be partially mistaken.

PLAYER57832 wrote:In most of Europe, the idea of driving 10 miles ( never mind 30) to get basic goods, seems extraordinary.

Nevermind Europe, even on Long Island you have to be crazy to go 10 miles for basic goods. Now outlet stores are another matter, but not regular stores. Where I live I have a WallMart within 8 miles of either direction. But for basic goods I have a supermarket less than a mile from my house.

tzor wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:In most of Europe, the idea of driving 10 miles ( never mind 30) to get basic goods, seems extraordinary.

Nevermind Europe, even on Long Island you have to be crazy to go 10 miles for basic goods. Now outlet stores are another matter, but not regular stores. Where I live I have a WallMart within 8 miles of either direction. But for basic goods I have a supermarket less than a mile from my house.

in the UK we have our own massive players. (and actually Germany has Ldl which is a low cost, no frills supermarket wholesaler/retailer)

I subsist solely off my own turnips, which curiously are grown in the same place i sleep.*

*to clarify: a heap of SHIT.

Yep, Germany has Lidl, Aldi, Edeka, Schlecker and probably some more that I can't recall right now. Just in this small town of 10k inhabitants we have 3 of those mentioned above as well as a non-low-cost supermarket that's desperately trying to survive against the competition by making special offers all the time.

In the US, its a bit different.

The towns with fewer than 20,000 people more and more often have nothing, except possibly high priced gas station "convenience" marts.

My town is trying to remarket itself for tourism, and its the county seat. Twenty years ago, there were 3 thriving grocery stores, several nice clothing stores, a hardware store, a "department" type store , etc etc etc.

Today, we have 3 used goods stores, a hardware store, one grocery store, 2 pharmacies which each have various and sundry other items (toys, basic household goods, small gifts).

Further, the variety of items available in all these stores is pretty limited. The uniqueness of each is being lost.

I do know this is happening in Europe, also, but not on anywhere the scale of the US.

Back to the main topic, bad building of schools and hospitals on a main fault line. Heads are going to roll on this one. There are some public officials who are in deep shit at the moment. Corruption is ripe here in china and the shoddy building practices have been found out. It's true that some of the buildings were quite some distance from the epicentre and were recently built with the surrounding govrnment buildings still standing. It's all about the money and some just got to greedy. An official enquirey is underway - I feel there will be a few more deaths to add to the toll when this is finalized.

It is an unfortunate fact that it often takes tragedy to get reform on things like safe building. I only hope that China might learn some of the lessons learned both in your history and other quakes around the world, and use that to make better building standards there.

In the meantime... I think the thoughts of many around the world are with those impacted right now.

PLAYER57832 wrote:The towns with fewer than 20,000 people more and more often have nothing, except possibly high priced gas station "convenience" marts.

Not true.

The Town of Riverhead is in Suffolk County, New York on the north shore of Long Island. The population was 27,680 at the 2000 census.

The "town" has not only several significant highways of shopping centers it has its own outlet center.

Wading River is a hamlet (and census-designated place) in Suffolk County, New York, USA, on the North Shore of Long Island. As of the United States 2000 Census, the CDP population was 6,668.

Located within the Town of Riverhead, our little hamlet has two drug stores (CVS and a Wall Green will be finished shortly) a Mc Donalds and a King Kullen supermarket. Down the block and still within the legal limit of the hamlet is a local supermarket run by farmers. We have two minor strip malls and several banks. Several resturants, a golf course, a butcher ("My Butcher" in fact) as well as a hardware place (ACE).

tzor wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:The towns with fewer than 20,000 people more and more often have nothing, except possibly high priced gas station "convenience" marts.

Not true.

The Town of Riverhead is in Suffolk County, New York on the north shore of Long Island. The population was 27,680 at the 2000 census.

The "town" has not only several significant highways of shopping centers it has its own outlet center.

Wading River is a hamlet (and census-designated place) in Suffolk County, New York, USA, on the North Shore of Long Island. As of the United States 2000 Census, the CDP population was 6,668.

Located within the Town of Riverhead, our little hamlet has two drug stores (CVS and a Wall Green will be finished shortly) a Mc Donalds and a King Kullen supermarket. Down the block and still within the legal limit of the hamlet is a local supermarket run by farmers. We have two minor strip malls and several banks. Several resturants, a golf course, a butcher ("My Butcher" in fact) as well as a hardware place (ACE).

I did say "often", not "always"...

But seriously, my information comes from research we did in trying to bring jobs to our area.

PLAYER57832 wrote:It is an unfortunate fact that it often takes tragedy to get reform on things like safe building. I only hope that China might learn some of the lessons learned both in your history and other quakes around the world, and use that to make better building standards there.

In the meantime... I think the thoughts of many around the world are with those impacted right now.

It's great to see how the many countries, have given help to China. Thankyou to the many who have helped and prayed for the victims of this great tragedy. I as yourself hope that we can learn from this. Mother nature can certainly be devastating at times. I live in a neighbouring province and the impact has been very sobering.