So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:14 pm....
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So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:14 pmRe: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:14 pmMaybe a collection can be taken here.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:19 pmSenioritus sucks, but you gotta overcome it at least long enough to look for decent scholarships. I was lucky here in Wyoming because if you are a citizen of the State (living here 14 years), then you get a discount on ALL colleges in the state along with the Uni. But I wish you the best of luck in this, and hope that you don't accumulate debt.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:41 pmMy wife and I paid our way through college and masters degrees and ended up with $120k in student loans (from 1997 to 2002). I know tuition has gone up since then, but it has not gone up that much.
1. Go to state schools for undergrad. No one cares if you went to Harvard undergrad much less any other program. Employers want to know that you got good grades, know how to work, and have realistic expectations (you are not going to get an office until you have 8-10 years experience).
Private schools simply do not deliver a return on the investment, and seriously, no one cares where you do your undergrad work.
2. Work while you are in college. Get a job waiting tables, tending bar, driving shuttles, scrubbing toilets, work in the library, just work. No only will it alleviate college debt, every single job lead, and quality networking connection both my wife and I made in our combined 10 years of higher education came from our jobs, not our classes.
3. Work every summer: I have never hired one of those kids who lists their extended summer vacations in Europe or the Amazon. If you didn't spend your summers slaving away digging ditches, running drugs, or doing something hard, you are not ready for the professional environment.
4. Go to graduate school: Undergraduate degrees just don't cut it anymore. Your classes are too big, your professors are not interested in teaching, and gradeflation at most schools has made passing classes too easy.
5. when you do go to graduate school spare no expense and only apply to the top schools in your field. Remember what I said about no one caring where you do your undergrad? The complete opposite is true when it comes to grad school. If your MBA or Law degree is not from a top 25 school, the debt you incur will probably not be worth the increased earning capacity that a masters or PHd brings.
And good luck.
1. Go to state schools for undergrad. No one cares if you went to Harvard undergrad much less any other program. Employers want to know that you got good grades, know how to work, and have realistic expectations (you are not going to get an office until you have 8-10 years experience).
Private schools simply do not deliver a return on the investment, and seriously, no one cares where you do your undergrad work.
2. Work while you are in college. Get a job waiting tables, tending bar, driving shuttles, scrubbing toilets, work in the library, just work. No only will it alleviate college debt, every single job lead, and quality networking connection both my wife and I made in our combined 10 years of higher education came from our jobs, not our classes.
3. Work every summer: I have never hired one of those kids who lists their extended summer vacations in Europe or the Amazon. If you didn't spend your summers slaving away digging ditches, running drugs, or doing something hard, you are not ready for the professional environment.
4. Go to graduate school: Undergraduate degrees just don't cut it anymore. Your classes are too big, your professors are not interested in teaching, and gradeflation at most schools has made passing classes too easy.
5. when you do go to graduate school spare no expense and only apply to the top schools in your field. Remember what I said about no one caring where you do your undergrad? The complete opposite is true when it comes to grad school. If your MBA or Law degree is not from a top 25 school, the debt you incur will probably not be worth the increased earning capacity that a masters or PHd brings.
And good luck.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:34 amAfter reading this thread I'm suddenly quite happy with the system in place here. 120k$ you have to pay back after you're done? Something's gone wrong somewhere...
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:56 amMeDeFe wrote:After reading this thread I'm suddenly quite happy with the system in place here. 120k$ you have to pay back after you're done? Something's gone wrong somewhere...
It looks terrible, but statistics show that it more than pays for itself in significantly higher earnings. As for the original question, I think your memory is correct, but I can't think of the particular program. Ask your high school college counselor (if you have one), if not, call the financial aid office at one of the schools you have applied to, they should be able to help. Good luck.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:48 amIn Croatia you can study for free.
But finding a good job is a hell's job.
But finding a good job is a hell's job.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:27 amWow, USA higher education sounds like a whole heap of suck. Where the hell is 120K going to?
That said, you've made me a whole lot more optimistic about paying off my own student debt now...
That said, you've made me a whole lot more optimistic about paying off my own student debt now...
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:54 am120,000??? Where the f*ck are you planning on going to school?
I will have about 30,000 in debts that I owe the government after this, but it is my SECOND degree.
Shit, you shouldn't be paying that much for school unless you plan on going somewhere like UCLA or UCSC and are out of state.
I will have about 30,000 in debts that I owe the government after this, but it is my SECOND degree.
Shit, you shouldn't be paying that much for school unless you plan on going somewhere like UCLA or UCSC and are out of state.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:56 amThe higher education system in the US is really very good. The big ambivalence in American higher education it between the ideal that everyone who wants to go to college should be allowed to go to college, and maintaining the quality of the higher education system. Because frankly, not everyone who wants to, should be allowed to go to college.
Right now we are pretty far to the idealistic side of this argument. Entrance requirements at college are low, and there are so many colleges and universities that some accredited schools are actually offering open enrollment.
I think we will see one of two things happen, either public outcry about the poor training of Americas college kids will force higher education to have more strict standards, or tiers of education will come into play. For example, a masters degree will become similar to what a bachelors degree represents today, and anyone who wants what a masters is now, will go for a PhD.
Who knows what will happen. Eventually the cost of going to college will not be worth the benefit, and many economist who monitor education think we have already hit that point in some disciplines (english, psychology, philosophy for example).
Right now we are pretty far to the idealistic side of this argument. Entrance requirements at college are low, and there are so many colleges and universities that some accredited schools are actually offering open enrollment.
I think we will see one of two things happen, either public outcry about the poor training of Americas college kids will force higher education to have more strict standards, or tiers of education will come into play. For example, a masters degree will become similar to what a bachelors degree represents today, and anyone who wants what a masters is now, will go for a PhD.
Who knows what will happen. Eventually the cost of going to college will not be worth the benefit, and many economist who monitor education think we have already hit that point in some disciplines (english, psychology, philosophy for example).
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:59 amAnarkistsdream wrote:120,000??? Where the f*ck are you planning on going to school?
I will have about 30,000 in debts that I owe the government after this, but it is my SECOND degree.
Shit, you shouldn't be paying that much for school unless you plan on going somewhere like UCLA or UCSC and are out of state.
Thats what I am thinking, Even in-state California could be upwards of $20,000 per year with living expenses. My wife and I did Arizona State and University of Arizona for undergrad, and then spent the big bucks at Harvard and Babson in Boston for our graduate degrees. Private Ivy League or California public without working are the only ways I can see anyone racking up $120,000 for undergrad alone.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:00 amHarijan wrote:The higher education system in the US is really very good. The big ambivalence in American higher education it between the ideal that everyone who wants to go to college should be allowed to go to college, and maintaining the quality of the higher education system. Because frankly, not everyone who wants to, should be allowed to go to college.
Right now we are pretty far to the idealistic side of this argument. Entrance requirements at college are low, and there are so many colleges and universities that some accredited schools are actually offering open enrollment.
I think we will see one of two things happen, either public outcry about the poor training of Americas college kids will force higher education to have more strict standards, or tiers of education will come into play. For example, a masters degree will become similar to what a bachelors degree represents today, and anyone who wants what a masters is now, will go for a PhD.
Who knows what will happen. Eventually the cost of going to college will not be worth the benefit, and many economist who monitor education think we have already hit that point in some disciplines (english, psychology, philosophy for example).
I'd say another of our problems is giving out grades to people who don't deserve them. It's, unfortunately, relatively common. A plus side for our system is that you get paid to go to a good grad school if your grades (ironically, that you may not deserve) are good enough.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:38 amI don't recommend that anyone collect 100K in debt for any reason, except maybe sometimes according to your financial background for buying a house.
You don't have to go to a private school. If you can't afford to go... you don't go.
You live in California, yes?
So you go to a Cal State with rolling admissions. It's that easy. Problem solved. You've just cut your potential debt load in half.
DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.
You don't have to go to a private school. If you can't afford to go... you don't go.
You live in California, yes?
So you go to a Cal State with rolling admissions. It's that easy. Problem solved. You've just cut your potential debt load in half.
DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:51 amHarijan wrote:Anarkistsdream wrote:120,000??? Where the f*ck are you planning on going to school?
I will have about 30,000 in debts that I owe the government after this, but it is my SECOND degree.
Shit, you shouldn't be paying that much for school unless you plan on going somewhere like UCLA or UCSC and are out of state.
Thats what I am thinking, Even in-state California could be upwards of $20,000 per year with living expenses. My wife and I did Arizona State and University of Arizona for undergrad, and then spent the big bucks at Harvard and Babson in Boston for our graduate degrees. Private Ivy League or California public without working are the only ways I can see anyone racking up $120,000 for undergrad alone.
Sorry, but you are all rather misinformed. I grew up in CA, graduated there and still have family there. First, comparing UCLA and USC is silly. one is a state school with a (relatively) low tuition. The other is an expensive private school. BUT the bigger issue is that while CA may have a pretty good educational deal, that is absolutely NOT true in all states. I live in PA, my 2 stepsons are attending state schools. The basic tuition at Penn State, OR one of the "lesser" branches is over $400 a credit for undergraduate, NOT counting books, living expenses.
As for OPTIONS:
Folks have suggested several, but here are a few others.
1. Some schools (do and internet search -- if you cannot bother to do that much, well...) don't charge tuition. In many cases, they are regious schools, but not always. Even if religious, you are not necessarily required to practice their religion.
2. IF you happen to live in CA, you can attend the community colleges. Some other states have reasonable community college programs. (PA does not). For the first 2 years, the school doesn't matter so much, BUT you may have to be willing to put in more effort, really seek out extra information to get the "same" education you will get more "hand fed" from a "better" school.
3. DO look for scholarships. As a senior, it is a bit late, but remember, this is a LIFETIME investment.
4. Consider ALL your options. What are your interests? Perhaps trade school is an option. DO be VERY careful, though. Unless you are very targeted toward a specific career, that can end up burning you. A degree shows something in virtually every field, but a technical degree is much less universal. ... and some cost as much as or more than a "traditional" college. Also, standardizations are perhaps more difficult to assess for technical/trade schools. In many fields, accredation is not available. In other cases, too easy to obtain.
5. CONSIDER going part-time, BUT it can be pretty hazardous. Just from your comments, you don't seem highly motivated. Holding a job and attending school can be pretty difficult. Also, you may miss out on some aspects of student life. Parties, sure, but more importantly, involvement in clubs and volunteer activities. Depending on your major, those can be as important as the degree, particularly if you take contacts and associations into account.
6. Don't give up on the financial aid issue. Yes, things are much worse than they used to be. Also, just having a degree is no longer quite the gaurantee of a future that it used to be. DO consider carefully before signing for loans, etc. BUT don't just disgard the idea. ALSO, though private schools are more expensive (often, not always -- see item #2), they often offer better financial aid packages.
7. Many internships require you to be an upperclassman, but not all. Once you are in school, and oriented on a specific degree, you become eligible for cooperative education programs (throught the government and private companies), internships, etc. You DO have to seek them out, they almost always are pretty competetive, but they are there. Peace Corps, Americorps, Teach America, etc are all programs that will not pay you before you graduate, but that can offer reduction/loan forgiveness after .. and they offer wonderful experience, too boot, if their needs match your field of interest.
WHATEVER you decided, make the most of your education. Actively seek out the popular professors. Usually they are popular for a reason, and usually that is becuase they teach well. You can find excellent teachers in smaller schools and terrible ones in "big name" schools. Remember, many of the bigger research schools judge professorships upon research. That is great when you are in line for a PhD yourself, but undergraduates may well be taught by aids who often don't even speak English well. (honestly -- because american graduate students often can get lucrative jobs in the field, whilst international students are limited to on-campus employment). Smaller schools are more likely to have a professor who can "do it all" OR who may not be the best researcher, but is an EXCELLENT explainer.
Anyway, best of luck on your future. This is a scary time, but it is also an exciting time. Take advantage of the opportunities. It is just one of the many challenges you face in the future.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:31 pmWell, the world needs ditch diggers too. . .
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:55 pmPLAYER57832 wrote:WHATEVER you decided, make the most of your education. Actively seek out the popular professors. Usually they are popular for a reason, and usually that is becuase they teach well. You can find excellent teachers in smaller schools and terrible ones in "big name" schools. Remember, many of the bigger research schools judge professorships upon research. That is great when you are in line for a PhD yourself, but undergraduates may well be taught by aids who often don't even speak English well. (honestly -- because american graduate students often can get lucrative jobs in the field, whilst international students are limited to on-campus employment). Smaller schools are more likely to have a professor who can "do it all" OR who may not be the best researcher, but is an EXCELLENT explainer.
Very true, couldn't have said better myself.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:24 pmAgree with all Harijan's tips except the grad school one, although this might depend on the field you choose. In engineering, it doesn't really matter. And actually, the sooner you can get out and get your 4 years experience (what you need to take the PE), the better. PE registration is what matters in engineering field, not a Masters degree.
And at least in the Civil field, there are enough jobs where little things like Masters dont' really matter. I make the same as someone with a Masters degree, since I have that extra few years experience. Experience >>> Masters, at least in my field (traffic engineering).
And at least in the Civil field, there are enough jobs where little things like Masters dont' really matter. I make the same as someone with a Masters degree, since I have that extra few years experience. Experience >>> Masters, at least in my field (traffic engineering).
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:28 pmYes, but ditch diggers require you to be in a union and to have certifications ... strange world, now.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:31 pmwicked wrote:Agree with all Harijan's tips except the grad school one, although this might depend on the field you choose. In engineering, it doesn't really matter. And actually, the sooner you can get out and get your 4 years experience (what you need to take the PE), the better. PE registration is what matters in engineering field, not a Masters degree.
And at least in the Civil field, there are enough jobs where little things like Masters dont' really matter. I make the same as someone with a Masters degree, since I have that extra few years experience. Experience >>> Masters, at least in my field (traffic engineering).
So right.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:33 pmwicked wrote:Agree with all Harijan's tips except the grad school one, although this might depend on the field you choose. In engineering, it doesn't really matter. And actually, the sooner you can get out and get your 4 years experience (what you need to take the PE), the better. PE registration is what matters in engineering field, not a Masters degree.
And at least in the Civil field, there are enough jobs where little things like Masters dont' really matter. I make the same as someone with a Masters degree, since I have that extra few years experience. Experience >>> Masters, at least in my field (traffic engineering).
Yeah, the more I think about it, even a master's degree is universal for many fields (like engineering, education, and nursing). But in fields where there is starting to be a glut of masters degrees (business, law and theology) where you get your master's degree pretty much determines how employable you are after graduation.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:20 pmIf you are concerned about racking up too much debt, go to a state college and find a job in your degree that will let you start working part time while in school. This will help you start gaining experience before you even graduate. Then if you like your employer, they may help pay your way through grad school if you continue working for them.
I paid my own way through undergrad and a masters program. My employer did not necessarily care where my degrees were from to an extent but liked that fact that I worked all through school. They are now paying my way through my MBA in finance.
If you can find the right company and enjoy working for them, it can be a great way to go.
I paid my own way through undergrad and a masters program. My employer did not necessarily care where my degrees were from to an extent but liked that fact that I worked all through school. They are now paying my way through my MBA in finance.
If you can find the right company and enjoy working for them, it can be a great way to go.
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:54 pmautoload wrote:Maybe a collection can be taken here.
I second this nomination. We should have lack give u all the profits from a few days
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:55 pm....
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:56 pm0ojakeo0 wrote:autoload wrote:Maybe a collection can be taken here.
I second this nomination. We should have lack give u all the profits from a few days
Re: So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:59 pmstatic_ice wrote:I'm planning on going to Columbia College Chicago... it's in-state and about 30k per year including extra costs like books. It is for-profit, which my college counselors told me to stay away from, but my art teachers emphasize how well former students are doing that graduated from CCC.
I live in Illiniois. And with me aspiring to be in the design field, I'm a bit suspicious with public and state schools... I've checked some out and their graphic design departments are either only a few years old, or too old with 100% traditional methods, 0% digital.
What would be so wrong with the military if it was necessary to continue?
Your college counselor is right. A "for-profit" school is not a real school. Did you apply to any other schools? Of course, for very many public schools, there is still time. Many schools will keep accepting applications until June or July.
I think you're wrong in being "suspicious" of public schools. Some will have Graphic Design departments, but most just have graphic design specialties within the Art or Studio Art major. A school with at least 5k students will offer plenty of graphic design classes to get you what you need to know and to graduate. Most importantly, they will give you degrees WORTH (both educationally and financially) a lot more than a pseudo-school like CCC. I concur that portfolios are foremost in a field like graphic design. It's up to YOU, not the school you attend, to get you to where you want to be... whether in the graphic design field or elsewhere.
The military will not pay for you to go to a for-profit school and get a degree in graphic design. Neither will any other reputable student aid service. Moreover, you are a 18 year old man with 0 years of post-secondary education. There is one path in the military for you. It's called death, amputation, or if you're lucky, post traumatic stress disorder. That's a bit of a hyperbole, I admit, but it's a real enough possibility that you should NOT consider. Through our narrow acquaintance, I can easily see that you are worth too much to be thrown away.
Dude, I'm sorry if I'm seeming overly harsh. I'm trying to be frank and honest with you, firstly because this is an INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT decision and secondly because I like and admire you. I'm sorry you're in this stressful position. I urge you to talk to your college counselor again. Weigh your options carefully. Choose a path that will grow with you, give you as many opportunities as possible, and not send you to the poor house.