Conquer Club

so the debate, should the burka be banned?, now to be honest i don't have much against islam or the women that wear the hijab (which covers everybit of their head apart from there face), but the burka divides people, especially if its a jewish, christian, athiest or even a moderate muslim country like say albania which hardly anyone wears headscarfs, i dont know about other countries but the UK promotes multi culturalism yet it promotes britishness those two things can't go together unless if the other culture is similar to the british/english/welsh/scottish/irish culture, whatever you want to call it, it splits communities apart yet the government wants everyone to be friends and eveything, i dont mind being friends with other communities, i dont discriminate, but when they come to this country and cant be assed to adapt, well expect to get some bashing!, it's like wearing a winter coat in the sahara desert at midday, if i wanted to live and work in japan for example, i would want to adapt, to change my lifestyle, to fit in. it's like Pissing out a cactus!, it's like using a PAL/Secam TV in a NTSC dominated country!, What's the fucking point?!. and i read a article in the newspaper about a moderate muslim woman, dressed up like a strict muslim at the airport, no looking at her face, they just let her pass.....That could of been fucking Osama bin laden for all that airport worker would of known, just ban the burka and stop being awkward!

I dont have strong views mate, sorry.

But I'd be reluctant to ban it, because then its central government telling people what they can and can't wear, and that seems like a violation of rights/freedom.

But I know where you are coming from-I guess I think they should be allowed to wear it, but they must expect increased social divisions as a result-its disconcerting not being able to see someones face.

I've got one, but for ugly stick reasons.

Banning it is ridiculous, for security purposes the women should be asked to remove the mask though, if neccesary in front of a women so there can be no offence caused.

well, if u let all these radicals islamists in they'll force every women to wear a headscarf like they do in most arab states......i wudnt like my wife being forced to wear a headscarf that covers all ur face, theres probably alot of muslim women who wud not want to wear it but have to because there husbands force them too.

yer that's violating there human rights isnt it, forcing them to wear something....

You're dead right, Brooksieb, quite a lot of Islam is TERRIBLE-they love beating their women too (eg Saudi Arabia).

The less we have of it in the UK the better, but it can only be stopped if it clearly hurts people-and some moderate Muslims are quite sound and liberal and don't force there women to wear degrading clothing or beat them senseless.

Religion's a lovely thing isn't it...

yer im religious and apart from what we share the only difference i agree with is being able to have more wives aint it great being a muslim these days

brooksieb wrote:well, if u let all these radicals islamists in they'll force every women to wear a headscarf like they do in most arab states......i wudnt like my wife being forced to wear a headscarf that covers all ur face, theres probably alot of muslim women who wud not want to wear it but have to because there husbands force them too.

Brooksie, we held the bastards off at Tours, and we'll hold 'em off again if need be.

For now, I'm off to a banquet featuring, traditional pork soup, hearty ale and girls in mini-skirts. 0% hallal, 100% Gaulois

brooksieb wrote:yer that's violating there human rights isnt it, forcing them to wear something....

Depends on who's doing the forcing I'm afraid. If they were being forced by a "public authority" then the answer is yes; if it was a private enterprise/individual, then it'd be dependant on a whole mish-mash of general laws, which the courts would have an statutory obligation to interpret in the most Human-Rights-Compatible way possible.

brooksieb wrote:yer that's violating there human rights isnt it, forcing them to wear something....

And you proposing a law forcing them not to wear it, whatever their views, is not violating their human rights

If a law was created explicitly outlawing Burkas then there'd be nothing the HRA1998 could do about it. A declaration of incompatibility could be made, but the law would still be 100% binding...


(Not saying I agree, just keeping things legally accurate in here)

its not a garment for an integrated society, its devisive.
It willfully creates a barrier as an act of seperation.
in truth it uses the excuse of religion to make the wearer different from the western society they have chosen to surround themselves with.
When all this kicked off there was a woman on radio 4 (UK BBC) saying it was her human right to wear one if she chose and would be campeigning for her rights even if she lived in Saudi Arabia..... ironicaly if she were in Saudi she wouldn't be doing anything political as women have virtualy no rights whatsoever..(see the recent rape case).
If a western woman moved to a muslim country, take your pick which one, and strolled around in a bikini, how long would she last?
I defend the rights of the individual. i defend the right to wear whatever you chose. The only thing i won't tolerate is intolerance.... and a large section of the muslim comunity dont want become members of our society, they wish to cling to outdated and racist views of the non muslim world. if a tolerant society is not what you want, please feel free to return to the oppresive regieme in your native country, or even your parents country. I will not stop you..... though i will miss the opportunity to pretend there are ninjas in my hometown

Kennedys Brain wrote:its not a garment for an integrated society, its devisive.
It willfully creates a barrier as an act of seperation.
in truth it uses the excuse of religion to make the wearer different from the western society they have chosen to surround themselves with.
When all this kicked off there was a woman on radio 4 (UK BBC) saying it was her human right to wear one if she chose and would be campeigning for her rights even if she lived in Saudi Arabia..... ironicaly if she were in Saudi she wouldn't be doing anything political as women have virtualy no rights whatsoever..(see the recent rape case).
If a western woman moved to a muslim country, take your pick which one, and strolled around in a bikini, how long would she last?
I defend the rights of the individual. i defend the right to wear whatever you chose. The only thing i won't tolerate is intolerance.... and a large section of the muslim comunity dont want become members of our society, they wish to cling to outdated and racist views of the non muslim world. if a tolerant society is not what you want, please feel free to return to the oppresive regieme in your native country, or even your parents country. I will not stop you..... though i will miss the opportunity to pretend there are ninjas in my hometown

This strikes me as a bit hypocritical. Fighting fire with fire. "We can't walk around in their countries wearing our "cultural dress" so they're not allowed to do wear theirs here". Doesn't gel very well with the US' (and the rest of the western world's) stated devotion to religous freedom. Should we ban priests from wearing the clerical collar simply because that is not what the majority of the population wears and is therefore encouraging seperation between the priesthood and the common populace? After all, we want to avoid double standards and contradictions...

Really, I see no reason why they should be banned. Is it impacting you negatively? No. Therefore you have no reason to take away their religous freedom just because you don't happen to like its difference.

I see no reason why we should ban the burka from our countries when we can ban the totality of their bodies from our continent.

Old School style, y'know?

No, the government shouldn't force them to remove it if they want to wear it. However, there are lots of problems with a burka, security reasons, hard to verify the person, etc. I personally believe that the burka is unnecessary and quite misogynistic... why can men choose what to wear, but women forced by their husbands or fathers to wear such a restrictive outfit?

Wow. Wow. How is it that most of the posts so far sympathize with the idea of banning a religious garment? What next, no yamakas? It's not like when you visit Saudi Arabia you have to put on a burka, so it's unfair for us to say "You dress funny, change it." I mean, Nappy's throw 'em out plan is bad enough (a step up from the 9/11 conspiracy crap, but barely). I just don't know what to say, there is no reasonable argument for banning it.

Frigidus wrote:Wow. Wow. How is it that most of the posts so far sympathize with the idea of banning a religious garment? What next, no yamakas? It's not like when you visit Saudi Arabia you have to put on a burka, so it's unfair for us to say "You dress funny, change it." I mean, Nappy's throw 'em out plan is bad enough (a step up from the 9/11 conspiracy crap, but barely). I just don't know what to say, there is no reasonable argument for banning it.

yarmulkas dont interfere with the day to day life of someone in a western society.

societies evolve. customs evolve.

d.gishman wrote:

Frigidus wrote:Wow. Wow. How is it that most of the posts so far sympathize with the idea of banning a religious garment? What next, no yamakas? It's not like when you visit Saudi Arabia you have to put on a burka, so it's unfair for us to say "You dress funny, change it." I mean, Nappy's throw 'em out plan is bad enough (a step up from the 9/11 conspiracy crap, but barely). I just don't know what to say, there is no reasonable argument for banning it.

yarmulkas dont interfere with the day to day life of someone in a western society.

societies evolve. customs evolve.

They can evolve. They do not, and should not, evolve to meet a particular culture's standard. It is the individual's choice, not society's, what they wear. Do scarfs or gators interfere with day to day life?

burkas should be banned. no islamic woman should be allowed to wear one in public.

except of course fat woman. a law should be passed forcing them to cover up, regardless of their religion.

on an equally serious note there are contributors here who are against the menfolk forcing these woman to wear burkas.

fair enough but where is their outrage at american men who force their woman to dress in the long ankle to wrist clothes from the turn of the century (the one before last) based on religious grounds.

the only difference i see is one group of men are christians whereas the other is not and attacking islam looks like becoming a demonstration sport at the London olympics in 2012.

What is so bad about it?

It's a womans choice what she wants to wear. There are plenty of religious wear that most of the population doesn't wear should we ban that too?

Forcing them not to wear it is not teh right way.

Iliad wrote:It's a womans choice what she wants to wear. There are plenty of religious wear that most of the population doesn't wear should we ban that too?

Forcing them not to wear it is not teh right way.

well, the burqa was originally made for muslim women so that they could still swim, and you know, not violate the islamic clothing rules (or whatever you call them). i wouldn't say it's actually a choice for them. it was just made to conform to religion. i believe a side goal/byproduct of the burqa is for body shapes less suited for bikinis.

Iliad wrote:What is so bad about it?

It's a womans choice what she wants to wear. There are plenty of religious wear that most of the population doesn't wear should we ban that too?

Forcing them not to wear it is not teh right way.

no, it is not their choice, the outdated clothing is tied to the religion and a punishable offence not to wear it. there are no such restrictions on men who are able to wear whatever is fashionable at the time.

it is hypocritical of Americans to throw stones at Islamic countries for the way women are treated when they have similar religious treatment of women in places like Utah that they do nothing about.

greenoaks wrote:

Iliad wrote:What is so bad about it?

It's a womans choice what she wants to wear. There are plenty of religious wear that most of the population doesn't wear should we ban that too?

Forcing them not to wear it is not teh right way.

no, it is not their choice, the outdated clothing is tied to the religion and a punishable offence not to wear it. there are no such restrictions on men who are able to wear whatever is fashionable at the time.

it is hypocritical of Americans to throw stones at Islamic countries for the way women are treated when they have similar religious treatment of women in places like Utah that they do nothing about.

But banning it is not better then the outdated religion.

greenoaks wrote:

Iliad wrote:What is so bad about it?

It's a womans choice what she wants to wear. There are plenty of religious wear that most of the population doesn't wear should we ban that too?

Forcing them not to wear it is not teh right way.

no, it is not their choice, the outdated clothing is tied to the religion and a punishable offence not to wear it. there are no such restrictions on men who are able to wear whatever is fashionable at the time.

it is hypocritical of Americans to throw stones at Islamic countries for the way women are treated when they have similar religious treatment of women in places like Utah that they do nothing about.

GRAR! HATE WOMEN! RAGH!