Conquer Club

According to the Constitution (you know, that little piece of butt wipe we use to proclaim that we have liberties in this country), McCain is not viable for the Presidency of the United States.

My source is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:

“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

and

John McCain, who ran in 2000 and is running in 2008, was born at the US military base Coco Solo in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. The Panama Canal Zone was under United States sovereignty between 1903 and 1979 but was unincorporated. [10] Contrary to the Time Magazine article cited, the Panama Canal Zone remained Panamanian Territory under the terms of the Hay-Buneau-Varilla Treaty of 1903. State Department Document 7 FAM 1116.1-4 titled, Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States" includes the following: "c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

If John McCain becomes President, it will be a fraud.

Ron Paul still Rulles!

But he's a USA citizen now right?
So you've just wasted everyones time by shoddy research, Da GIMP.
Thanks for that

Busted!

Now there is nothing else to do except to elect Bush for the third time!

suggs wrote:But he's a USA citizen now right?
So you've just wasted everyones time by shoddy research, Da GIMP.
Thanks for that

That's what's being brought up right now. That McCain was never a US Citizen, as he was born in Panama. Therefore, he is not a naturally born citizen of the United States, and his presidency would be illegal.

He did more for his country than 99.9% of Americans. I think that's more important than not having been born on US soil. Plus he was born on American Base due to the fact that his father was on duty for his country.

Both McCain's grandfather and father were admirals in the United States Navy. McCain attended the United States Naval Academy and graduated in 1958. He was married in 1965. He became a naval aviator, flying attack aircraft from carriers. During the Vietnam War in 1967, he narrowly escaped death in the Forrestal fire. On his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam later in 1967, he was shot down and badly injured. He then endured five and a half years as a prisoner of war, including periods of torture, before he was released following the Paris Peace Accords in 1973.

McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. His flight suit caught on fire as he rolled through the flames but he was able to put it out. He went to help another pilot trying to escape the fire when the first bomb exploded; McCain was thrown backwards ten feet and struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel.

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had almost always been off-limits to U.S. raids. McCain's A-4E Skyhawk had its wing blown off by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile while pulling up after dropping its bombs. McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane[56] as it went into a vertical inverted spin. He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes. Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information; they beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth. Soon thinking he was near death, McCain said he would give them more information if taken to the hospital, hoping he could then put them off once he was treated. A prison doctor came and said it was too late, as McCain was about to die anyway. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post. Interrogation and beatings resumed in the hospital; McCain gave his ship's name, squadron's name, and the attack's intended target. Further coerced to give the names of his squadron members, he supplied the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.

Wow! Can't get any more American hero than that

Heimdall wrote:He did more for his country than 99.9% of Americans. I think that's more important than not having been born on US soil. Plus he was born on American Base due to the fact that his father was on duty for his country.

Both McCain's grandfather and father were admirals in the United States Navy. McCain attended the United States Naval Academy and graduated in 1958. He was married in 1965. He became a naval aviator, flying attack aircraft from carriers. During the Vietnam War in 1967, he narrowly escaped death in the Forrestal fire. On his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam later in 1967, he was shot down and badly injured. He then endured five and a half years as a prisoner of war, including periods of torture, before he was released following the Paris Peace Accords in 1973.

McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. His flight suit caught on fire as he rolled through the flames but he was able to put it out. He went to help another pilot trying to escape the fire when the first bomb exploded; McCain was thrown backwards ten feet and struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel.

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had almost always been off-limits to U.S. raids. McCain's A-4E Skyhawk had its wing blown off by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile while pulling up after dropping its bombs. McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane[56] as it went into a vertical inverted spin. He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes. Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information; they beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth. Soon thinking he was near death, McCain said he would give them more information if taken to the hospital, hoping he could then put them off once he was treated. A prison doctor came and said it was too late, as McCain was about to die anyway. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post. Interrogation and beatings resumed in the hospital; McCain gave his ship's name, squadron's name, and the attack's intended target. Further coerced to give the names of his squadron members, he supplied the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.

Wow! Can't get any more American hero than that

Hero or not, does not change the fact that he is NOT A NATURALLY BORN CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. Sorry, to tell you, but facts is facts. Nice try though. I am sure there are a few vets that would argue with you on how much a hero McCain is.

So what? Repeal that amendment. That's a silly law anyways. I wanna see Schwarzenneger President.

ignotus wrote:Busted!

Now there is nothing else to do except to elect Bush for the third time!

It might go to the supreme court and they will likely allow McCain's candidacy, so it will be legal.

Heimdall wrote:It might go to the supreme court and they will likely allow McCain's candidacy, so it will be legal.

Won't the Congress have to repeal the 14th amendment?

DaGip wrote:According to the Constitution (you know, that little piece of butt wipe we use to proclaim that we have liberties in this country), McCain is not viable for the Presidency of the United States.

My source is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:

“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

and

John McCain, who ran in 2000 and is running in 2008, was born at the US military base Coco Solo in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. The Panama Canal Zone was under United States sovereignty between 1903 and 1979 but was unincorporated. [10] Contrary to the Time Magazine article cited, the Panama Canal Zone remained Panamanian Territory under the terms of the Hay-Buneau-Varilla Treaty of 1903. State Department Document 7 FAM 1116.1-4 titled, Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States" includes the following: "c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

If John McCain becomes President, it will be a fraud.

Ron Paul still Rulles!

Gip, why use wiki for these things? In actuality, the military bases are in fact, US soil, so long as he was born on it, it does make him a natural citizen.

The other condition of being a natural born citizen is having one parent who is an American citizen, regardless of birthplace. Seriously, try not to be a retard.

Heimdall wrote:It might go to the supreme court and they will likely allow McCain's candidacy, so it will be legal.

You are probably correct. But the issue does contain legitimate weight. So first that part of the Constitution would have to be repealed, and then we can have Arnie for Prezinator!

Colossus wrote:The other condition of being a natural born citizen is having one parent who is an American citizen, regardless of birthplace. Seriously, try not to be a retard.

Read the post, McCain does not receive US citizenship by merely being born on a US Military base.

Being born on US soil is not the only possibly way to be granted citizenship at birth (i.e. natural born citizen). If one or both of your parents is a US citizen, then you are granted citizenship, too, regardless of where you are born.

Colossus wrote:Being born on US soil is not the only possibly way to be granted citizenship at birth (i.e. natural born citizen). If one or both of your parents is a US citizen, then you are granted citizenship, too, regardless of where you are born.

I am agreeing with you. McCain's father was in the Military and a US citizen. He should be afforded the right to run for the presidency. The Constitution needs to be more ellaborate on the definition of Natural Born Citizen. The legislature is pushing that particular issue. Of course, our forefathers believed in a more Libertarian government than at present, therefore they did not invision us invading and basing ourselves in all these foreign countries. If this proposal goes before the Supreme Court, as was said earlier in this thread, it will be shot down.

But Arnie can't run for Prezinator. As he would fall under the classification of a person that is not a Natural Born Citizen.

DaGip wrote:
But Arnie can't run for Prezinator. As he would fall under the classification of a person that is not a Natural Born Citizen.

That's ridiculous. Arnie for Prezinator! Repeal the 14th amendment! Elect him to lead, not to read!

Colossus wrote:Being born on US soil is not the only possibly way to be granted citizenship at birth (i.e. natural born citizen). If one or both of your parents is a US citizen, then you are granted citizenship, too, regardless of where you are born.

You beat me to it

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

I want to know where you found that U.S. military bases aren't under the jusrisdicition of the United States.

As I've heard it, and the way that makes the most sense and is probably right is that U.S. military bases (just like embassies) are United States territory and are subject to the laws of the United States, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the base in question.

Nowhere in the 14th Amendment did it say that U.S. military bases were not under the jurisdiction of the United States. In fact, I think I'll quote it for posterity:

14th Amendment wrote:Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

/edit: Oh good, someone found the legislation that defined natural born citizen.

So, all of the sudden, your argument has absolutely no weight. How about that.

Hologram wrote:I want to know where you found that U.S. military bases aren't under the jusrisdicition of the United States.

As I've heard it, and the way that makes the most sense and is probably right is that U.S. military bases (just like embassies) are United States territory and are subject to the laws of the United States, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the base in question.

Nowhere in the 14th Amendment did it say that U.S. military bases were not under the jurisdiction of the United States. In fact, I think I'll quote it for posterity:

14th Amendment wrote:Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

/edit: Oh good, someone found the legislation that defined natural born citizen.

So, all of the sudden, your argument has absolutely no weight. How about that.

Uhhem...

"c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

read the beginning of post please. That's where I heard about this.

And what argument are you talking about, it is not my argument. Legislators are putting this before the courts as we speak. They are looking to prove that McCain is not a United States Citizen under the description of the Constitution. Sorry you are so pissed at me for it, but I agree with you that McCain should be considered a Citizen, but, however, the courts will have the final ruling on the matter (that is of course if they even really care about it). I just think it would be quite funny to see Mackie Messer become Prez and then have it stripped from him for not being a Natural Born Citizen.

The weight of the argument is already being debated in the legislature.

I'm sorry, I thought you just read about McCain having been born overseas, and then the Constitution, and shoddily put 2 and 2 together.

Anyway, I still want to know where that quote came from, because according to greenoaks' post, Title 8 of the U.S. Code has recognized him as a natural born citizen under the clause "Anyone born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S." (I'm pretty sure this applies).

Also, those legislators putting forth the notion that McCain is ineligible are either stupid, naive, or both.

DaGip is that you singing on the guitar about Ron Paul from that youtube video you linked for your sig?

DaGip wrote:According to the Constitution (you know, that little piece of butt wipe we use to proclaim that we have liberties in this country), McCain is not viable for the Presidency of the United States.

My source is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:

“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

and

John McCain, who ran in 2000 and is running in 2008, was born at the US military base Coco Solo in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. The Panama Canal Zone was under United States sovereignty between 1903 and 1979 but was unincorporated. [10] Contrary to the Time Magazine article cited, the Panama Canal Zone remained Panamanian Territory under the terms of the Hay-Buneau-Varilla Treaty of 1903. State Department Document 7 FAM 1116.1-4 titled, Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States" includes the following: "c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

If John McCain becomes President, it will be a fraud.

Ron Paul still Rulles!

The reasonable individuals have already explained why this is a load of nonsense, but I'll add this: that's just low, man. I'm not too fond of McCain either, but you seem to be stooping even lower than the New York Times...

Also, if you look at the article you cited (Wikipedia) a few sentences after the citing of the State Department policy it says that John McCain is indeed a natural born citizen.