Conquer Club

alot of people argue for or against isreal, i know this will be pretty popular, im keeping a in the middle stance on isreal

as you all know Isreal was created after the war after the holocaust replacing palestine ive got one reason for isreal and one reason against isreal

For:

-it was the jews promised homeland for thousands of years

-the jews dont have a true jewish nation

Against:

-the palestinians controlled palestine, for example your house is called palestine, you invite a guest in to your house with open arms, he kicks you and your family out of your house and calls it isreal

now i can totally understand the palestinians fighting back for palestine/isreal but i dont understand why they should bring religion into it

no swearing or insulting i want a clean discussion

hello anyone wanna discuss

brooksieb wrote:hello anyone wanna discuss

Palestine (at least their heads of state) doesn't want there to be a Palestine, they want there to be a lack of Israel. We already tried giving them their own country, and they refused.

Frigidus wrote:

brooksieb wrote:hello anyone wanna discuss

Palestine (at least their heads of state) doesn't want there to be a Palestine, they want there to be a lack of Israel. We already tried giving them their own country, and they refused.

Screw 'em then! I voted to split Israel and Palestine, but if the Palestinians didn't want their own country, then foeget about et.
Most of those Palestinians were flocking to Egypt, why doesn't Egypt take them then?

When there is no more fighting in the Middle East, what will that mean? Will the World quit fighting as well?

Maybe we can let Israel take over Iraq...imagine that scenerio, eh?

Let us praise God for another uncontraversial topic.
It's bound to bring out the spirit of love, and calm debate that this forum is famed for.
Amen.

FREE EGYPT.

The British split the area into Jordan and Israel. They gave Jordan to the muslims and Israel to the Jews. Now the Muslims want more of the Jewish state. (You give a mouse a cookie.) They will want it all until there is no longer an Israeli left. There will not ever be peace.

Tha "Israeli" ball started rolling after the Balfour Declaration, the holocaust may have been the catalyst but prior to it there was the pogroms in Russia and what seemed a general dislike for jews in many parts of the world before WWII even before christ. My understanding on this topic is limited, it intrigues me though, I do think the creation of the state of Israel to be somewhat fair, every culture has its doubters and dislikers, jews and muslims are no different. I also think Israel's surrounding arch-neighbors have somewhat fair reason to be as they are towards Israel, less the bombings and rocket attacks. The negotiating process for the creation of the Israeli state may have been biased, given the era of the day. I don't know what more to say, let em battle it out in a game of soccer, hockey and all the olymipic sports Jew v Muslim/Palestinian of the world and may the winner have glory!

itiq wrote:Tha "Israeli" ball started rolling after the Balfour Declaration, the holocaust may have been the catalyst but prior to it there was the pogroms in Russia and what seemed a general dislike for jews in many parts of the world before WWII even before christ. My understanding on this topic is limited, it intrigues me though, I do think the creation of the state of Israel to be somewhat fair, every culture has its doubters and dislikers, jews and muslims are no different. I also think Israel's surrounding arch-neighbors have somewhat fair reason to be as they are towards Israel, less the bombings and rocket attacks. The negotiating process for the creation of the Israeli state may have been biased, given the era of the day. I don't know what more to say, let em battle it out in a game of soccer, hockey and all the olymipic sports Jew v Muslim/Palestinian of the world and may the winner have glory!

or ya can put a penny between two jews and watch em fight to the death jk

Some Native Americans contend that the establishment of the United States is not fair.

unsuspecting comment brooksieb,

well to be honest they should of made emselves stronger thats like fighting over a well when theres no water left u know u expect a fight for ur well why not stock up on getting stronger same as these african countries

DaGip wrote:Some Native Americans contend that the establishment of the United States is not fair.

Of course not. Nor was my having your girlfriend and mother at once.

Well DaGip, native americans either signed treaties and went their merry way or were in the process of being exterminated and regretfully forced to accept, i think!

itiq wrote:Well DaGip, native americans either signed treaties and went their merry way or were in the process of being exterminated and regretfully forced to accept, i think!

Indeed...the United States isn't the first country created using other's land, and it won't be the last. That said, there isn't much that can be done at this point. For instance, if the US attempted to return land to them, the modern residents of former native American lands would be forced to leave their homes. Should they pay for a crime they (and possibly not even their ancestors depending on when they immigrated) didn't commit? It is truly regrettable that our country was founded in violence, but there isn't much we can do to change the past.

Frigidus wrote:

itiq wrote:Well DaGip, native americans either signed treaties and went their merry way or were in the process of being exterminated and regretfully forced to accept, i think!

Indeed...the United States isn't the first country created using other's land, and it won't be the last. That said, there isn't much that can be done at this point. For instance, if the US attempted to return land to them, the modern residents of former native American lands would be forced to leave their homes. Should they pay for a crime they (and possibly not even their ancestors depending on when they immigrated) didn't commit? It is truly regrettable that our country was founded in violence, but there isn't much we can do to change the past.

Kind of like current state's governments apologizing for slavery back in the 1800s and so on. It's a bit pointless at this time when you think about it.

I am all against israel.

That region belongs to the Jews with Jerusalem (JEWrusalem) as its capital.

Spell it correctly? Israel.

Come on. I-S-R-A-E-L.

itiq wrote:Tha "Israeli" ball started rolling after the Balfour Declaration, the holocaust may have been the catalyst but prior to it there was the pogroms in Russia and what seemed a general dislike for jews in many parts of the world before WWII even before christ. My understanding on this topic is limited, it intrigues me though, I do think the creation of the state of Israel to be somewhat fair, every culture has its doubters and dislikers, jews and muslims are no different. I also think Israel's surrounding arch-neighbors have somewhat fair reason to be as they are towards Israel, less the bombings and rocket attacks. The negotiating process for the creation of the Israeli state may have been biased, given the era of the day. I don't know what more to say, let em battle it out in a game of soccer, hockey and all the olymipic sports Jew v Muslim/Palestinian of the world and may the winner have glory!

This is a good post.

I have fairly strong feelings on the matter, and I'm still not sure I contend Israel's right to exist. That isn't to say that Israel has not perpetrated some nasty bits of foreign policy in the past. I think what some people in this thread seem to be misunderstanding is that the Muslims don't wish the end of Israel because of some long-seated anti-semitic tenancy (indeed, we in the Christian West arguably have a more prevelant and worse history regarding the Jews). Israel was literally created right in the middle of land that had been in Muslim hands for six or seven hundred years. Furthermore, there has always been such a mix of people in the area. The Muslim population of Palestine was not some migratory Muslim horde who racked up when Muhammad told them to, or under Ottoman rule or whatever. They have always been there, always resided in that area, and chose Islam as their religion, just as others have historically been Jewish or Syrian Christian or any number of other religions in the area. Pretty much every single person who lives there has a right to be there, so we dofn't need ridiculous comments like 'it's Jewrusalem' (although that did seem sarcastic in nature).

Guiscard wrote:

itiq wrote:Tha "Israeli" ball started rolling after the Balfour Declaration, the holocaust may have been the catalyst but prior to it there was the pogroms in Russia and what seemed a general dislike for jews in many parts of the world before WWII even before christ. My understanding on this topic is limited, it intrigues me though, I do think the creation of the state of Israel to be somewhat fair, every culture has its doubters and dislikers, jews and muslims are no different. I also think Israel's surrounding arch-neighbors have somewhat fair reason to be as they are towards Israel, less the bombings and rocket attacks. The negotiating process for the creation of the Israeli state may have been biased, given the era of the day. I don't know what more to say, let em battle it out in a game of soccer, hockey and all the olymipic sports Jew v Muslim/Palestinian of the world and may the winner have glory!

This is a good post.

I have fairly strong feelings on the matter, and I'm still not sure I contend Israel's right to exist. That isn't to say that Israel has not perpetrated some nasty bits of foreign policy in the past. I think what some people in this thread seem to be misunderstanding is that the Muslims don't wish the end of Israel because of some long-seated anti-semitic tenancy (indeed, we in the Christian West arguably have a more prevelant and worse history regarding the Jews). Israel was literally created right in the middle of land that had been in Muslim hands for six or seven hundred years. Furthermore, there has always been such a mix of people in the area. The Muslim population of Palestine was not some migratory Muslim horde who racked up when Muhammad told them to, or under Ottoman rule or whatever. They have always been there, always resided in that area, and chose Islam as their religion, just as others have historically been Jewish or Syrian Christian or any number of other religions in the area. Pretty much every single person who lives there has a right to be there, so we dofn't need ridiculous comments like 'it's Jewrusalem' (although that did seem sarcastic in nature).

Jewrusalem, eh, weird, I read an article today on BBC on the lobbying efforts to place Jerusalem on a monopoly "cities" board, Israeli's it seems have a hard on for this city, as do non jews, although the UN creators left it technically separate from Isreal and non Israelis with good reason. Recently Canada's supreme court wouldn't hear the case of an Israeli trying to change his passport place of birth to Jerusalem, Israel, since according to the UN and the rest of the world Jerusalem is not Israeli. The persistent efforts though by the Israelis to have it recognized as theirs is pretty bold, somewhat demeaning in the sense that Israeli's should be happy they received a decent parcel of land at the expense of other non jews. Perhaps, I don't understand the overall facts but if I'm reading things correctly, Jews are remarkable lobbyists.

personally im hoping for an eventual one state solution, which would probably come about through granting representation to the palestinans. Sure it doesnt solve all of the problems involved, but i think it would probably change the nature of the situation quite a bit, and i think makes a resonable amount of sense given all the circumstances in play.

got tonkaed wrote:personally im hoping for an eventual one state solution, which would probably come about through granting representation to the palestinans. Sure it doesnt solve all of the problems involved, but i think it would probably change the nature of the situation quite a bit, and i think makes a resonable amount of sense given all the circumstances in play.

Except, we have Hamas and their sinister antics, who are pretty well cynical, apprehensive and outright against anything Israel, Fatah or the world (minus Syria, Iran and few asian states) bring to the table if Israel simply exists where it does. Mind you, I don't think, Israel is too keen on the one state solution including the Palestinians. The Israeli's have essentially become borne into their habit of being a strictly hebrewish state. I don't blame em but I don't think it's fair either!

i think you severly weaken the position of those opposition groups, if you grant people the right to have some say over how they are governed.

Every annexation or partition since the dawn of time has adversly affected a selection of the population of the given state. The Palestians fight for Palestine and Israeli's fight for Israel. Anywhere that there are diametric religious beliefs there will be trouble. It has taken years for any sort of peace to last in Northern Ireland and that is between two christian faiths. There will only be peace in the middle east when the muslims allow the jews to live in peace and vice versa.

Should Israel exist. It has as much right to exist as any other country that has been formed through violent or political takeover. It dont make it right, but it sure as hell dont make wrong.

A lasting peace in the Middle East? Sadly, probably not in my lifetime.

Jews are stealing Palestinian land.

What's new though, eh?