Conquer Club

...at Northern Illinois University. Very tragic.

What is with this phenomenon of school shootings? Virginia Tech, Dawson College, Jokela, now Northern Illinois. What are your thoughts on why these tragedies repeat themselves and why so many have occurred in such a short time period?

Rush Limbaugh would have us believe that the "uber-left-wing faculty" are responsible for indoctrinating impressionable young minds with anti-American sentiments, post-modern devaluing of human life, the evils of capitalism, etc., resulting in the aforementioned rampages.

To say nothing of our lax gun-control laws. "Don't you dare blame Smith & Wesson, or the gun shows!"

So, is it just gun control then?

Shootings have occurred in Canada, the United States, and Finland. Three countries where legal/illegal firearm distribution is very high.

Are there any societal factors involved? Glamorization of violence, for instance?

darvlay wrote:So, is it just gun control then?

Shootings have occurred in Canada, the United States, and Finland. Three countries where legal/illegal firearm distribution is very high.

Are there any societal factors involved? Glamorization of violence, for instance?

Wouldn't quite say that, though it would probably be a factor in some cases, one also has to look at the psyche of each of the shooters. Colombine for instance wasn't that far from where I live, though it was back in 1998 I believe. The kids that did the shooting had a history of being bullied, which would make sense if it went far enough, but they targeted anyone in a sports jersey or looked like a jock. Not to mention the use of home-made grenades that did a fair share of destruction. I'm not saying all school shootings result from one factor alone, but from numerous factors.

muy_thaiguy wrote:Wouldn't quite say that, though it would probably be a factor in some cases, one also has to look at the psyche of each of the shooters. Colombine for instance wasn't that far from where I live, though it was back in 1998 I believe. The kids that did the shooting had a history of being bullied, which would make sense if it went far enough, but they targeted anyone in a sports jersey or looked like a jock. Not to mention the use of home-made grenades that did a fair share of destruction. I'm not saying all school shootings result from one factor alone, but from numerous factors.

4 major school shootings in the past year. How many before it goes from a case-specific occurrence to something more?

The kids in Columbine are an interesting case. Sure, they were bullied however bullying and rivalries between "factions" happen at every school and most teenagers will experience or witness it in their lifetimes. What made Eric and Dylan different? What made them lose it and decide to go on a killing rampage? Would there have been a Columbine massacre if they were not able to get their hands on such insane weaponsry?

"Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (Serial No. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec Tec-9 Semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (Serial No. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the Tec-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. "

This kind of thing happens everywhere though. In the UK it was with homemade explosives to blow up a bus.

Napoleon Ier wrote:This kind of thing happens everywhere though. In the UK it was with homemade explosives to blow up a bus.

don't be ridiculous.

"Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (Serial No. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec Tec-9 Semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (Serial No. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the Tec-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. "

That is fucking insane.




This is a tec-9: it was built to kill people. It has no other purpose. It is portable, easily concealable and lethal. Using it requires only that you load it, point it and pull its trigger. It needs a tiny movement of the index finger. That's all.
Handguns make killing people easy, both physically and emotionally.
Would those kids have had the balls to strangle all those people? Or club them to death with a baseball bat? I don't think so, not for one second.

Does the easy availablity of handguns have anything to do with emotionally spastic kids shooting up their schools? Why yes, i believe it does.

And what the f*ck is anyone doing selling uzis across the counter? And what sort of legislature permits that?

as a history major, i had to read a lot. and a lot of primary sources, too.

read a bunch of newspapers from the 18th and 19th centuries, and i can tell you that similar mass murder burn outs have happened throughout history. the primary difference between then and now, is primarily the tremendous killing power of modern weapons and higher frequencies of high concentrations of population in modern times.

the media is of course, far more "responsive" and exploitative than ever, but human nature hasn't changed. the same sad recurring pattern of history has happened for centuries and will continue long after we are all dead.

This is very tragic.....with these such things becoming more and more into the press i'm almost afraid to go to college now.

although none have happened near where i live... so thats reassuring

I don't know these kids but they must have some kind of wrong in their head else they wouldn't do it. Not shit sherlock

They want attention, and they know they can get it this way. Even if it takes their lives, they're ready to set up for it. Strange though. I wouldn't give a shit if I had no irl friends, that's what I think at this very moment, but it's probably because I have friends. :/

heavycola wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:This kind of thing happens everywhere though. In the UK it was with homemade explosives to blow up a bus.

don't be ridiculous.

"Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (Serial No. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec Tec-9 Semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (Serial No. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the Tec-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. "

That is fucking insane.




This is a tec-9: it was built to kill people. It has no other purpose. It is portable, easily concealable and lethal. Using it requires only that you load it, point it and pull its trigger. It needs a tiny movement of the index finger. That's all.
Handguns make killing people easy, both physically and emotionally.
Would those kids have had the balls to strangle all those people? Or club them to death with a baseball bat? I don't think so, not for one second.

Does the easy availablity of handguns have anything to do with emotionally spastic kids shooting up their schools? Why yes, i believe it does.

And what the f*ck is anyone doing selling uzis across the counter? And what sort of legislature permits that?

Actually, after the shootings, a video or several (I forget how many right off bat) that the kids had planned it all out. If they had the balls/lack of sanity to do that, I don't think they would have hesitated 1 second in using a basball bat or knife. I was only about 8 or 9 when it happened, but I remember it being shown live on the news. How they got Uzis, I am not sure, but they also created home-made grenades which were also used extensively during their rampage across the school, not just guns that they probably bought on the black market.

heavycola wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:This kind of thing happens everywhere though. In the UK it was with homemade explosives to blow up a bus.

don't be ridiculous.

You know, I'm actually becoming rather irritated by you. You just come in withot any serious statistics (like your supposed study of effects on gun crime which basically consisted of a one year fluctuation) and laughable analysis, then dismiss people's points as ridiculous. Can I suggest that instead of trying to fit into the accepted standard image of the typical liberal for the sake of being mainstream, you form your own opinion every now and again?

this is a catch 22 you want the government to do something but we all have the right to bare arms
i think you got to go after the companies who make them first
its the only way to at least slow it down a bit
impose huge fines that will actually hurt them in the pocket
what's a million dollar fine when you make 250 million its nothing
its a joke but something must be done to get these kind of guns off the streets are children also have the RIGHT to learn in a safe environment

Capt Killroy wrote:this is a catch 22 you want the government to do something but we all have the right to bare arms

Easy solution: The U.S. government should repeal the 2nd amendment since it is no longer relevant under the premise in which it was instituted. The rest will fall into place.

PS - Your signature creeps me the f*ck out.

darvlay wrote:

Capt Killroy wrote:this is a catch 22 you want the government to do something but we all have the right to bare arms
i think you got to go after the companies who make them first
its the only way to at least slow it down a bit
impose huge fines that will actually hurt them in the pocket
what's a million dollar fine when you make 250 million its nothing
its a joke but something must be done to get these kind of guns off the streets are children also have the RIGHT to learn in a safe environment

Easy solution: The U.S. government should repeal the 2nd amendment since it is no longer relevant under the premise in which it was instituted.

Actually, you mistake it, quite badly. It was put there not only so citizens of the US could defend themselves, hunt, etc. But also so if the government becomes like, say, the Roman Empire in it's later years where corruption, civil unrest, towns and cities pillaged, etc. To stop these things from happening and to re-instate an uncorrupted government that would actually fix these things. I'll have to get back to you on why it wouldn't happen in the first place because I need to get to class now.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

darvlay wrote:

Capt Killroy wrote:this is a catch 22 you want the government to do something but we all have the right to bare arms
i think you got to go after the companies who make them first
its the only way to at least slow it down a bit
impose huge fines that will actually hurt them in the pocket
what's a million dollar fine when you make 250 million its nothing
its a joke but something must be done to get these kind of guns off the streets are children also have the RIGHT to learn in a safe environment

Easy solution: The U.S. government should repeal the 2nd amendment since it is no longer relevant under the premise in which it was instituted.

Actually, you mistake it, quite badly. It was put there not only so citizens of the US could defend themselves, hunt, etc. But also so if the government becomes like, say, the Roman Empire in it's later years where corruption, civil unrest, towns and cities pillaged, etc. To stop these things from happening and to re-instate an uncorrupted government that would actually fix these things. I'll have to get back to you on why it wouldn't happen in the first place because I need to get to class now.

I don't mistake it at all. Nowhere did I say why it was instituted so how I could I be wrong? I know the origins of the constitution but thanks anyway for offering to educate me!

What I want you to do now is tell me why the 2nd amendment is still necessary. Do you think the US should fear its own military or some other standing army??

what happened to that kid in finland is he still alive? i heard that fucker turned the gun on himself but when he shot the gun he was in a near death state

to be honest dar if your looking for something of a social explanation i think it might have something to do with a response of students to an increasingly alienated and commodified existence around themselves, to which they cannot properly or adequatley vent their frustrations. In light of a system which they feel they cannot escape, they react in a culturally stated, if not quite appropriate (given the fact its illegal) way to their alienation.

It will probably be a consistent thing in the years to come.