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Christians and Muslims would probably dislike me for this..
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:11 amby Skittles!
Alrighty, I was thinking. Are Muslims the Middle Eastern, South-East Asian and African kind of Christian?
Okay, that question may sound weird, but let me rephrase that. We have Christians as the majority in the Western World. In the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa, Muslims are the majority I believe. Can Muslims (and this is where most people would dislike me) just be said to be another sect. of Christianity?
Let's look at Muslims. They believe that the Prophet Mohammed is the last and greatest of the Prophets from Allah. Allah = God in English (or roughly that). It is said that the Archangel Gabriel (or something along those lines) came to Mohammed to start the truth of Allah being the one true god. See the comparisons to Christianity, or moreover, Judaism?
So, could Muslims be just another sect. of Christianity, as different sects. in Christianity have different beliefs?
Or am I just talking crazy?
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:33 amby Iliad
I think there are many differences however those could've been made by both Christianity and Islam after the "miracles".
Gotta wait until the experts come
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:36 amby Neutrino
I would say both Christianity and Islam are just sects of Judaism.
Sure, there are differences (at this point Jenos starts ranting about how Mohammad likes children) but they all fundamentally believe the same thing.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:37 amby dcowboys055
Yeah Neutrino is right they both come from Judaism.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:37 amby Vyk
Most religions are all based off of eachother in some way or another. While all the while somehow topping each other on the bullshit meter.
Religion is just another drug for the weak to cling onto. I look at a christian the same way I look at a heroin addict.
Then again I work in a Casino, so we all know how backwards my own morals are
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:30 pmby Genghis Khant
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:39 pmby mr. incrediball
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:16 pmby muy_thaiguy
First of all, Muslims in Africa stick mainly to the Northern countries, and even then aren't always the majority (look at Ethiopia). Another thing, Mohammed took what he liked of the Christians and Jews in the area where he lived, and then added in his own stuff. And when he asked the Jews in the area to make him a prophet, at least recognize him as one, they refused to do so. Needless to say this probably sparked the "conflict" in the Middle East between the two. Muslims also started spreading their beliefs by the sword, Christians (the early ones of the Roman Empire and the likes) spread it by word of mouth, not the sword. And when Constatine came around, Christianity was already widespread throughout the empire, and not by the sword. Islam on the other hand, began by the sword. Spreading throughout North Africa and the Middle East making people either convert by the sword, or killing them. And don't bother with the Crusades, I'm comparing how both religions began and how they first spread out throughout the Mediterranean area. Though, in actuality, the Muslim conquests lasted much longer then the Crusades did. From the initial spread from what is now Arabia, to the Turk conquests into South Eastern Europe in the 14-1500s, if not later. About 1000 years, give or take. Also, you have to look at the teachings as well, like Jesus taught to be kind to others while Mohamed taught to conquer others through force. If you don't believe me, look at the history and teachings of the two and notice the startling differences.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:21 pmby brooksieb
well albania is a country in the western world and same is bosnia and most of em are muslims but most of em are very laid back with their religion, like they're not allowed beer and my mate who is kosovan (next to albania and is a muslim nation) drinks alot but he don't get drunk, and if u ask him about getting virgins his most likely comment will be "give em to me now!" though not all of africa is muslim its like split, while places like algeria and egypt up in the north are mostly muslim, places like the congo and angola are mostly christian,
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:27 pmby brooksieb
muy_thaiguy wrote:First of all, Muslims in Africa stick mainly to the Northern countries, and even then aren't always the majority (look at Ethiopia). Another thing, Mohammed took what he liked of the Christians and Jews in the area where he lived, and then added in his own stuff. And when he asked the Jews in the area to make him a prophet, at least recognize him as one, they refused to do so. Needless to say this probably sparked the "conflict" in the Middle East between the two. Muslims also started spreading their beliefs by the sword, Christians (the early ones of the Roman Empire and the likes) spread it by word of mouth, not the sword. And when Constatine came around, Christianity was already widespread throughout the empire, and not by the sword. Islam on the other hand, began by the sword. Spreading throughout North Africa and the Middle East making people either convert by the sword, or killing them. And don't bother with the Crusades, I'm comparing how both religions began and how they first spread out throughout the Mediterranean area. Though, in actuality, the Muslim conquests lasted much longer then the Crusades did. From the initial spread from what is now Arabia, to the Turk conquests into South Eastern Europe in the 14-1500s, if not later. About 1000 years, give or take. Also, you have to look at the teachings as well, like Jesus taught to be kind to others while Mohamed taught to conquer others through force. If you don't believe me, look at the history and teachings of the two and notice the startling differences.
yes that is true, mohammed said you shudnt convert people forcibly, because then what's the point of them being a muslim when they're not going to be a proper muslim, but after mohammed died the kaliphs read the koran wrongly adding they're stuff in so thats why u got all this convert or be killed stuff, also mohammed said they're should be no arranged marriages, people should choose who they want to marry, however before islam started in arabia, there were loads of arranged marriages, however they refused to take part in letting their children choose who they want to marry..... another story of where culture can rule over religion
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:07 pmby Arbustos
muy_thaiguy wrote:First of all, Muslims in Africa stick mainly to the Northern countries, and even then aren't always the majority (look at Ethiopia). Another thing, Mohammed took what he liked of the Christians and Jews in the area where he lived, and then added in his own stuff. And when he asked the Jews in the area to make him a prophet, at least recognize him as one, they refused to do so. Needless to say this probably sparked the "conflict" in the Middle East between the two. Muslims also started spreading their beliefs by the sword, Christians (the early ones of the Roman Empire and the likes) spread it by word of mouth, not the sword. And when Constatine came around, Christianity was already widespread throughout the empire, and not by the sword. Islam on the other hand, began by the sword. Spreading throughout North Africa and the Middle East making people either convert by the sword, or killing them. And don't bother with the Crusades, I'm comparing how both religions began and how they first spread out throughout the Mediterranean area. Though, in actuality, the Muslim conquests lasted much longer then the Crusades did. From the initial spread from what is now Arabia, to the Turk conquests into South Eastern Europe in the 14-1500s, if not later. About 1000 years, give or take. Also, you have to look at the teachings as well, like Jesus taught to be kind to others while Mohamed taught to conquer others through force. If you don't believe me, look at the history and teachings of the two and notice the startling differences.
That might be a small reason, but the Muslims were largely tolerant of Jews in the area after Mohammed's death. They were fellow people of the book (like Christians and Zoroastrians) -- the only stipulation was that they pay a tax... it wasn't until the Zionist movement that a big controversy started.
I think.
Re: Christians and Muslims would probably dislike me for thi
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:10 pmby Gregrios
Skittles! wrote:Alrighty, I was thinking. Are Muslims the Middle Eastern, South-East Asian and African kind of Christian?
Okay, that question may sound weird, but let me rephrase that. We have Christians as the majority in the Western World. In the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa, Muslims are the majority I believe. Can Muslims (and this is where most people would dislike me) just be said to be another sect. of Christianity?
Let's look at Muslims. They believe that the Prophet Mohammed is the last and greatest of the Prophets from Allah. Allah = God in English (or roughly that). It is said that the Archangel Gabriel (or something along those lines) came to Mohammed to start the truth of Allah being the one true god. See the comparisons to Christianity, or moreover, Judaism?
So, could Muslims be just another sect. of Christianity, as different sects. in Christianity have different beliefs?
Or am I just talking crazy?
I think your a little misinformed. The Prophet Mohammed doesn't claim to be any more important than any of the other prophets. In fact, he states that no one prophet is any more important than the other. I have read some of the Koran so I know some of what I'm talking about. Although I've only read about 20% of it.
I think in time poeple will realize that the beliefs of Muslims and Christians arn't all that different. I think alot of the differences are rooted from misunderstanding. I guess we'll see.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:32 pmby suggs
But although Jesus is a prophet in Islam, he's not massively crucial.
So thats a bit of a difference from CHRISTianity...
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:36 pmby the_fatty
my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:49 pmby muy_thaiguy
the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
When you put it that way, Christianity and Buddhism are the same. Christianity and the government are the same. Using such general terms is ridiculous and a bit superficious. Learn what they mean and they're messages first before making generalized comments like that.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:07 pmby comic boy
muy_thaiguy wrote:the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
When you put it that way, Christianity and Buddhism are the same. Christianity and the government are the same. Using such general terms is ridiculous and a bit superficious. Learn what they mean and they're messages first before making generalized comments like that.
Of course there are differences between the religions but I agree with Fatty that fundamentaly they are pretty similar. The average Muslim probably has a similar set of ethics to the average Christian, if you had been born in the Middle East then the chances are you would be following whichever religion your parents adhered to.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:30 pmby Frigidus
the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
Good call. Isn't it interesting how all of the rules supposedly supplied by God in the Abrahamic faith only have to do with very human ideas? Don't take my stuff, don't think about my wife you perv, don't kill/hurt me. Oh, and worship me a lot, make sure of that.
Re: Christians and Muslims would probably dislike me for thi
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:31 pmby Skittles!
Gregrios wrote:Skittles! wrote:Alrighty, I was thinking. Are Muslims the Middle Eastern, South-East Asian and African kind of Christian?
Okay, that question may sound weird, but let me rephrase that. We have Christians as the majority in the Western World. In the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa, Muslims are the majority I believe. Can Muslims (and this is where most people would dislike me) just be said to be another sect. of Christianity?
Let's look at Muslims. They believe that the Prophet Mohammed is the last and greatest of the Prophets from Allah. Allah = God in English (or roughly that). It is said that the Archangel Gabriel (or something along those lines) came to Mohammed to start the truth of Allah being the one true god. See the comparisons to Christianity, or moreover, Judaism?
So, could Muslims be just another sect. of Christianity, as different sects. in Christianity have different beliefs?
Or am I just talking crazy?
I think your a little misinformed. The Prophet Mohammed doesn't claim to be any more important than any of the other prophets. In fact, he states that no one prophet is any more important than the other. I have read some of the Koran so I know some of what I'm talking about. Although I've only read about 20% of it.
I think in time poeple will realize that the beliefs of Muslims and Christians arn't all that different. I think alot of the differences are rooted from misunderstanding. I guess we'll see.
I didn't say Mohammed said he was the greatest, I said that Muslims believe he is the greatest. Why else would they have to travel to Mecca once in their life time as it was the holy city of Mohammed?
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:40 pmby OnlyAmbrose
the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
You hear this so much, yet I've still never seen it used convincingly to be a case against theism. They all teach the same basic ideas therefore they're made up? Totally unrelated conclusion.
Sorta the atheistic equivalent of a Christian saying "the earth is complex. therefore God exists." Sort of a weak argument...
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:43 pmby got tonkaed
OnlyAmbrose wrote:the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
You hear this so much, yet I've still never seen it used convincingly to be a case against theism. They all teach the same basic ideas therefore they're made up? Totally unrelated conclusion.
Sorta the atheistic equivalent of a Christian saying "the earth is complex. therefore God exists." Sort of a weak argument...
its a far better argument against the need for a ecumenical movement rather than an argument that there should be no religion via man madeness.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:47 pmby OnlyAmbrose
got tonkaed wrote:OnlyAmbrose wrote:the_fatty wrote:my parents want me to be christian (we go to chuch every sunday, do chuch relatesd stuff...) but i really think that a realigions are made up. if you think about it, they all have the same basic ideas. God rules all. Dont kill and steal. Dont treat others poorly. Blah blah blah. So my answer to your question is yes, islam and christian are basically the same.
You hear this so much, yet I've still never seen it used convincingly to be a case against theism. They all teach the same basic ideas therefore they're made up? Totally unrelated conclusion.
Sorta the atheistic equivalent of a Christian saying "the earth is complex. therefore God exists." Sort of a weak argument...
its a far better argument against the need for a ecumenical movement rather than an argument that there should be no religion via man madeness.
I'll admit it's a
better argument in that context, but still not a good one. From the theistic perspective, the specifics of what you believe are generally important. From an atheistic perspective, I guess it would make sense that any religion is pretty much just as good as the next, but that assumes the atheistic perspective is correct... so once again we're left with the fact that it's an unconvincing argument because it's built on a premise that we can't agree on.
Posted:
Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:49 pmby got tonkaed
i agree its probably not an argument that one would make with a lot of frequency. Personally if i was going to use it would probably be prefaced by an attempt to argue that if religions are going to be involved in movements dealing with social justice and improving the lives of the poor we would be better served by inviting different perspectives to the table, because many of these religions cite the necessity for their followers to assist the needy.
It wouldnt really be something you can claim makes all religions equal in desirability to one another, though that argument goes down roads that are rarely worth going.
Re: Christians and Muslims would probably dislike me for thi
Posted:
Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:37 amby Jenos Ridan
Skittles! wrote: Can Muslims (and this is where most people would dislike me) just be said to be another sect. of Christianity?
Or am I just talking crazy?
No. And you are either crazy or ignorant. Whereas God loves all mankind (John 3:16, I John 5:13 and Romans 5:8), the Koran is long on the good works one must do in order for Allah to even concider you for salvation (Sura 4:54), and even then you can be sent to hell (Sura 14:4), to say nothing of Allah's hate for those who turn away (Sura 3:32, 2:6-7), or who he hates (Sura 2:190, 2:276, 3:57, 4:36). Since good works are no guaritee, Jihan is the only sure way to enter Paradise (Sura 60:1-2, 3:157)
Further still, when you concider the diffences between Christ and Mohammad and the examples they both set for their respective followers.
When one understands these differences, one understands why they are not the same.[/u]
Re: Christians and Muslims would probably dislike me for thi
Posted:
Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:11 amby Neutrino
Begin Religious Argument Thread!
Jenos Ridan wrote:No. And you are either crazy or ignorant. Whereas God loves all mankind (John 3:16, I John 5:13 and Romans 5:8), the Koran is long on the good works one must do in order for Allah to even concider you for salvation (Sura 4:54), and even then you can be sent to hell (Sura 14:4), to say nothing of Allah's hate for those who turn away (Sura 3:32, 2:6-7), or who he hates (Sura 2:190, 2:276, 3:57, 4:36). Since good works are no guaritee, Jihan is the only sure way to enter Paradise (Sura 60:1-2, 3:157)
Completely different from the Christian God who absolutely does not damn people to for all eternity hell for petty things like idolatry, theft, adultary, or simply being Non-Christian, then? God's infinite benevolence towards homosexuals is amazing to behold.
Your amazing short sightedness when it comes to your own religion always confuses me...
Posted:
Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 amby lt.pie
muy_thaiguy wrote:First of all, Muslims in Africa stick mainly to the Northern countries, and even then aren't always the majority (look at Ethiopia). Another thing, Mohammed took what he liked of the Christians and Jews in the area where he lived, and then added in his own stuff. And when he asked the Jews in the area to make him a prophet, at least recognize him as one, they refused to do so. Needless to say this probably sparked the "conflict" in the Middle East between the two. Muslims also started spreading their beliefs by the sword, Christians (the early ones of the Roman Empire and the likes) spread it by word of mouth, not the sword. And when Constantine came around, Christianity was already widespread throughout the empire, and not by the sword. Islam on the other hand, began by the sword. Spreading throughout North Africa and the Middle East making people either convert by the sword, or killing them. And don't bother with the Crusades, I'm comparing how both religions began and how they first spread out throughout the Mediterranean area. Though, in actuality, the Muslim conquests lasted much longer then the Crusades did. From the initial spread from what is now Arabia, to the Turk conquests into South Eastern Europe in the 14-1500s, if not later. About 1000 years, give or take. Also, you have to look at the teachings as well, like Jesus taught to be kind to others while Mohamed taught to conquer others through force. If you don't believe me, look at the history and teachings of the two and notice the startling differences.
Mohammedanism is still spreading rapidly ,look at great Britain-France -Australia, most western countries welcome them in .
