Conquer Club

It looks like the death penalty is in the news again following the controversy over lethal injection in the US.
In Japan, it's been in the news a lot too. Japan gives no notification after sentencing as to when the sentence will be carried out. That means it could be a few days, or a few years. You won't know until there's a knock on your cell door.

I'm opposed to the penalty completely. I've been a member of Amnesty International, and I fully support a global moratorium.

What do you think? I included a few moral options in the poll.

1) The "eye for an eye" argument.
2) The argument that suggests that the death penalty reduces crime.
3) The argument for victims deserving closure.
4) The argument for death only for the particularly irredeemable, or unforgivable. (In the UK, many oppose the penalty, but would have made an exception for Myra Hindley, for example)
5) The argument for the execution of defeated enemy leaders, torturers, mass executioners, and war criminals.
6) The argument that nation states shouldn't decide who lives and dies in a process that's pretty flawed and cruel.

Hopefully that summarizes most of the arguments. A few are collated. No apologies for favouring a ban though. It's what I believe based on countless abuses and mess ups.

Please give your reasons.

i concur, total ban. anyone who places enough faith in the judiciary system to allow it the power to end life is bereft of heart and head.

I've just always found it so ironic that we kill people as punishment for killing people. I'm totally opposed to it, but I can understand why people support it. It can be a very emotional debate with child rapists and terrorists brought in as evidence. But when it gets right down to it, I just cannot condone the killing of another human being when there are methods of removing him/her from our society without killing them. I feel that we degrade our own moral character by strapping them to a table and dumping chemicals into their veins until they die.

Obviously if someone I knew/loved was ever brutally murdered or what have you I might change my mind in the heat of the emotional moment. But if that were to be the case our legal system would NEVER allow me to be a deciding factor in that person's fate.

And for a legal system that prides itself on preferring to let a guilty person go free rather than imprison an innocent person, do I even need to mention the risk of killing someone who didn't commit the crime? There are no appeals to death.

Fieryo wrote:But if that were to be the case our legal system would NEVER allow me to be a deciding factor in that person's fate.

Sure it would.

sorry, I should have clarified. I would never be allowed to serve on a jury which in turn would dole out a punishment. I would most likely be used a as witness though. My bad.

You have roughly 2 million people in jail in the United States. Sure no one wants in an ideal world to kill someone, but practically that's an option which is entirely viable. Clear out the prisons. Why should we pay for these bastards to live and thrive, spreading their criminal influence. Before poeple start telling me how a death penalty is so much more expensive, think for a moment : that is because of the continuous ridiculous appeals and trials over and over. Once we know they're guilty, all you need to pay for is a cigarette, a blindfold and 33 grams of lead. I'm not crying over the death of a pedophilic murderor or mutineers.

Napoleon Ier wrote:You have roughly 2 million people in jail in the United States. Sure no one wants in an ideal world to kill someone, but practically that's an option which is entirely viable. Clear out the prisons. Why should we pay for these bastards to live and thrive, spreading their criminal influence. Before poeple start telling me how a death penalty is so much more expensive, think for a moment : that is because of the continuous ridiculous appeals and trials over and over. Once we know they're guilty, all you need to pay for is a cigarette, a blindfold and 33 grams of lead. I'm not crying over the death of a pedophilic murderor or mutineers.

Hahahahaha.

This is so wrong!

Napoleon Ier wrote:You have roughly 2 million people in jail in the United States. Sure no one wants in an ideal world to kill someone, but practically that's an option which is entirely viable. Clear out the prisons. Why should we pay for these bastards to live and thrive, spreading their criminal influence. Before poeple start telling me how a death penalty is so much more expensive, think for a moment : that is because of the continuous ridiculous appeals and trials over and over. Once we know they're guilty, all you need to pay for is a cigarette, a blindfold and 33 grams of lead. I'm not crying over the death of a pedophilic murderor or mutineers.

From a moral standpoint, the death penalty is abhorrent. But from a financial point of view it makes perfect sense! And i for one embrace fiscal responsibility. Death to all mutineers!

The vast majority of people in jail are there not because of capital offenses. They are there because of federally mandated minimum sentences for drug crimes or weapon possession. To say that the death penalty is a suitable way of decreasing the number if inmates is a) disgusting b) wrong and c) ignoring that small thing called 'fact'.

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:You have roughly 2 million people in jail in the United States. Sure no one wants in an ideal world to kill someone, but practically that's an option which is entirely viable. Clear out the prisons. Why should we pay for these bastards to live and thrive, spreading their criminal influence. Before poeple start telling me how a death penalty is so much more expensive, think for a moment : that is because of the continuous ridiculous appeals and trials over and over. Once we know they're guilty, all you need to pay for is a cigarette, a blindfold and 33 grams of lead. I'm not crying over the death of a pedophilic murderor or mutineers.

Hahahahaha.

This is so wrong!

hahahahaha he has no arguments and thinks his incessant slander campaign against me because I'm such an awful person and a bigot and whats more a Papist (oh teh noes!!1!1) who opposes the "rights" of pederasts will suffice.

Fieryo wrote:The vast majority of people in jail are there not because of capital offenses. They are there because of federally mandated minimum sentences for drug crimes or weapon possession. To say that the death penalty is a suitable way of decreasing the number if inmates is a) disgusting b) wrong and c) ignoring that small thing called 'fact'.

Increase the number of capital offences.

Napoleon Ier wrote:Increase the number of capital offences.

Excellent idea. Now we can finally add j-walking, not cleaning up after your dog and running a red light to the list of crimes we can kill you for. Hurrah!

The number of court appeals granted to a death row candidate totals into the millions of dollars, far exceeding the economic costs of lifetime incarceration. Of course an alive prisoner occupies far more space than a dead one, leading to further prison-expansion costs.

So now we are faced with a more finite decision: Limit the appeals process, thereby cutting down the taxpayer costs (as virtually all death row inmates receive state-appointed lawyers, as they are entirely too poor to afford their own defense council) attached to the death penalty, of course this will undoubtedly lead to even greater numbers of inaccuracies, i.e. more people killed by the state than should have been killed by the state.

I feel a better question resides in why the U.S. has given up on reformation of prisoners? Our prison system yields far more new violent criminals (many of whom were not violent criminals before entering the prison system) than yields productive members of society.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:You have roughly 2 million people in jail in the United States. Sure no one wants in an ideal world to kill someone, but practically that's an option which is entirely viable. Clear out the prisons. Why should we pay for these bastards to live and thrive, spreading their criminal influence. Before poeple start telling me how a death penalty is so much more expensive, think for a moment : that is because of the continuous ridiculous appeals and trials over and over. Once we know they're guilty, all you need to pay for is a cigarette, a blindfold and 33 grams of lead. I'm not crying over the death of a pedophilic murderor or mutineers.

Hahahahaha.

This is so wrong!

hahahahaha he has no arguments and thinks his incessant slander campaign against me because I'm such an awful person and a bigot and whats more a Papist (oh teh noes!!1!1) who opposes the "rights" of pederasts will suffice.

Dude, the death penalty question is not one of practicality or economics....

Agreed, however even when incorporating practicality and economic factors, alongside the whole "ethical" argument, capital punishment still does not adhere to rational forces.

It is. Objectively it is wrong. However in a practical situation, I can see many cases where you may want to execute someone. The War on Terror, deserters, pedophiles...

V.I. wrote:The number of court appeals granted to a death row candidate totals into the millions of dollars, far exceeding the economic costs of lifetime incarceration. Of course an alive prisoner occupies far more space than a dead one, leading to further prison-expansion costs.

So now we are faced with a more finite decision: Limit the appeals process, thereby cutting down the taxpayer costs (as virtually all death row inmates receive state-appointed lawyers, as they are entirely too poor to afford their own defense council) attached to the death penalty, of course this will undoubtedly lead to even greater numbers of inaccuracies, i.e. more people killed by the state than should have been killed by the state.

I feel a better question resides in why the U.S. has given up on reformation of prisoners? Our prison system yields far more new violent criminals (many of whom were not violent criminals before entering the prison system) than yields productive members of society.

Totally agreed.

Napoleon Ier wrote: Objectively it is wrong.

But the law is objective. Subjectivity leads to inequality and inequality leads to a fundamental breakdown in the legal system.

Napoleon Ier wrote:It is. Objectively it is wrong. However in a practical situation, I can see many cases where you may want to execute someone. The War on Terror, deserters, pedophiles...

See the problem with this is that it will just create a fickle and uncoherent legal system.
Who decides who to execute? I wouldn't execute a deserter, as wrong as I might think what he does is. You're suggesting just leaving it to whatever you feel at the moment and not giving much though to whether it's reasonable or not. Never mind the problem of this making it even more sure you kill lots of innocent people.

I you kill someone on accident and they prove it was an accident then no,but if you are a serial killer,child molester,or you mutilated your victim then hell yes you should get the death penalty...

but that's just my opinion and you know what they say (opinions are like assholes everybody's got one)...

snorri very clearly wants me to be executed by being raped to death by a pederast dutch moped gang.

Napoleon Ier wrote:snorri very clearly wants me to be executed by being raped to death by a pederast dutch moped gang.

Congratulations, you've completely invalidated yourself in this discussion.

V.I. wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:snorri very clearly wants me to be executed by being raped to death by a pederast dutch moped gang.

Congratulations, you've completely invalidated yourself in this discussion.

no me and snorri keep getting at each other like this. I'm sure none of it is taken as a serious insult.

You've worded and arranged this poll question in the worst way I have ever seen.

However, I believe a death penalty should be in place for multiple homicide, repeat predatory paedo's, Severe war crimes, and stealing loaves of bread to feed your starving families.

Anyways... I think it is a suitable punishment for the very worst of crimes (as has been mentioned) like pedos, rapists, serieal killers, war criminals, etc.