Conquer Club

This is not a conspiracy theory, but a summary of my understanding of capitalist society.

To begin with my opinions developed of capitalism, I must state that capitalism relies on the laws of Supply and Demand without it, capitalism would fail. From this I have developed another thesis. Demand is more important than supply. If we have more supply than demand, then that's not good, because the industry selling the supply is losing money by the declining value of the good by holding a surplus.

Thus the concept of capitalism relies centrally on Demand more than Supply. As long as people want something and it's not too expensive, businesses will make money by selling it and selling upgrades or modifications to it. Another thing I have witnessed is a spike in spending during the holidays. The "holidays" no longer seem to hold a greater spiritual meaning, but seems equivalent or less important compared to the material goods exchanged at this time.

Thus, if "holidays" did not exist then capitalism would fail. People would spend less on things they didn't need and things they don't want. People also consume more and waste more than usual during this time. More energy is used. Of course, people would spend more throughout the year, but not as much as if holidays still existed.

Another foundation of capitalism is the need for society to spend money to entertain itself constantly and to replace old goods. If products lasted longer then it would decrease demand. From this, I developed another thought, it may be possible that there may be more oil (otherwise conservatives and neo-conservative groups would switch to alternative fuels). I believe that conservatives are price fixing and driving prices up by underestimating oil reserves.

I also believe that American cars may be intentionally low quality so that people would be forced to keep buying more cars. Capitalism has made us lazy and weak. Big businesses have begun outsourcing jobs and hiring illegal immigrants. If you look at any McDonalds toy and most of the toys, you'll find that they are made in China or another east Asian nation. Capitalism has done two major things that have impaired our way of life, exploiting third world countries and artificially creating needless demand.

Karl Marx knows a lot on this. Look him up.

unriggable wrote:Karl Marx knows a lot on this. Look him up.

He's dead and he changed his mind about communism in his later years.

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:Karl Marx knows a lot on this. Look him up.

He's dead.

I'm pretty sure he wrote a book or two before he died.

unriggable wrote:

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:Karl Marx knows a lot on this. Look him up.

He's dead.

I'm pretty sure he wrote a book or two before he died.

He did write the Communist Manifesto and talked of how the proles would overthrough their oppressors in some revolution. I don't think so.

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:Karl Marx knows a lot on this. Look him up.

He's dead.

I'm pretty sure he wrote a book or two before he died.

He did write the Communist Manifesto and talked of how the proles would overthrough their oppressors in some revolution. I don't think so.

Well trust me it outlines the very basis of capitalism to its roots - i suggest you read it.

no matter what one thinks of some of the ideas marx proposes, he does a very good job in spurts in explaining some of the core ideas of capitalism.

got tonkaed wrote:no matter what one thinks of some of the ideas marx proposes, he does a very good job in spurts in explaining some of the core ideas of capitalism.

Yeah, I don't really agree with his vision of the future, and most will agree with me, but you'd have to be ignorant to deny that he hits the nail on the head when it comes to describing the present.

unriggable wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:no matter what one thinks of some of the ideas marx proposes, he does a very good job in spurts in explaining some of the core ideas of capitalism.

Yeah, I don't really agree with his vision of the future, and most will agree with me, but you'd have to be ignorant to deny that he hits the nail on the head when it comes to describing the present.

He's an anti-semite...

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:no matter what one thinks of some of the ideas marx proposes, he does a very good job in spurts in explaining some of the core ideas of capitalism.

Yeah, I don't really agree with his vision of the future, and most will agree with me, but you'd have to be ignorant to deny that he hits the nail on the head when it comes to describing the present.

He's an anti-semite...

Who, Marx? lol

He was a Jew, you know?

well as Winston Churchill said, the blessings of capitalism are not distributed equally to everyone whereas the misery of socialism is. (yes, I know we're talking about communism but I think both apply.

Man, no middle grounds here. Free market, closed market, or no market.

CoffeeCream wrote:well as Winston Churchill said, the blessings of capitalism are not distributed equally to everyone whereas the misery of socialism is. (yes, I know we're talking about communism but I think both apply.

if we are being more honest, we could just admit capitalism serves the ones at the top better than socialism, even though it does the same things. Case in point, soviet athletes and government officials sure did better of than the average worker did.

Chris7He wrote:

unriggable wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:no matter what one thinks of some of the ideas marx proposes, he does a very good job in spurts in explaining some of the core ideas of capitalism.

Yeah, I don't really agree with his vision of the future, and most will agree with me, but you'd have to be ignorant to deny that he hits the nail on the head when it comes to describing the present.

He's an anti-semite...

That doesn't make him any dumber or any more wrong. Nothing he wrote talked about any group in particular.

got tonkaed wrote:

CoffeeCream wrote:well as Winston Churchill said, the blessings of capitalism are not distributed equally to everyone whereas the misery of socialism is. (yes, I know we're talking about communism but I think both apply.

if we are being more honest, we could just admit capitalism serves the ones at the top better than socialism, even though it does the same things. Case in point, soviet athletes and government officials sure did better of than the average worker did.

OK, I'm officially ticked off by your posts now tonka. What are you trying to say? If we are being more honest. You can have your opinions on any subject but let's not pretend that one position is more honest than another. They're just different opinions. As for capitalism serving people at the top better than socialism, that's just not true because when capitalism is tried more people move out of the poor class and into the middle class. Middle class people move into the wealthy class.

Bill Richardson cut taxes in my state. Every time it helped our economy. Yes, I'm putting in a plug for him since I plan to vote for him.

CoffeeCream wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:

CoffeeCream wrote:well as Winston Churchill said, the blessings of capitalism are not distributed equally to everyone whereas the misery of socialism is. (yes, I know we're talking about communism but I think both apply.

if we are being more honest, we could just admit capitalism serves the ones at the top better than socialism, even though it does the same things. Case in point, soviet athletes and government officials sure did better of than the average worker did.

OK, I'm officially ticked off by your posts now tonka. What are you trying to say? If we are being more honest. You can have your opinions on any subject but let's not pretend that one position is more honest than another. They're just different opinions. As for capitalism serving people at the top better than socialism, that's just not true because when capitalism is tried more people move out of the poor class and into the middle class. Middle class people move into the wealthy class.

Bill Richardson cut taxes in my state. Every time it helped our economy. Yes, I'm putting in a plug for him since I plan to vote for him.

if you take a closer look at income inequality and vertical mobility in the U.S. you'll see that we have something much closer to a caste system than we're led to beleive. not to mention amercians workers make less real money than they have in many decades. government is what serves the people at top. socialism or capitalism it ends up very similar for those on the bottom.

Why can't you have something that's somewhere in between capitalism and communism? Because personally my views vary from issue to issue - in some things I'd appear to be very socialist, in other things very much in favour of the free market, and in a few things lie somewhere between the two.

eg freedom of expression
If the state defines what an individual expresses, it's not 'free' thought. So "art" (be it paintings, sculpture, music, clothing, ...) should be produced on a totally free market basis. (Capitalist)

BUT, I also think that it's the duty of the state to purchase outstanding works of art and allow the general public to view them for free in galleries. (Socialist)

AlgyTaylor wrote:Why can't you have something that's somewhere in between capitalism and communism?

Because then you can't demonize the opposing side.

Snorri1234 wrote:Because then you can't demonize the opposing side.

That's true. Maybe we should invent a totally fictitious "fourth way" then demonise it.

I'd suggest that the fourth way be diametrically opposed to both capitalism & communism. So everyone has absolutely nothing, and they don't share it with anyone else.

apologies coffee, i was simply implying that churchills assertion was only partly correct. Essentially it was a criticism of some of the efforts in recent history toward communism, which in many cases had as much of a stratified society as capitalism. I wasnt really disagreeing with you, just point out that the quote you cited, while true in theory perhaps, is actually in practice a little bit off.

AlgyTaylor wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:Because then you can't demonize the opposing side.

That's true. Maybe we should invent a totally fictitious "fourth way" then demonise it.

I'd suggest that the fourth way be diametrically opposed to both capitalism & communism. So everyone has absolutely nothing, and they don't share it with anyone else.

check out the Gift Economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

mybike_yourface wrote:check out the Gift Economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

sounds good!