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More experts say Gov. is lying about 911

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:14 pm
by xtratabasco
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne ... vel_of.htm





November 3, 2007 at 06:58:31

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down

by Richard Clark Page 1 of 3 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com







A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007 in OpEdNews. (Link provided below.) The article details severe criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by seven CIA veterans and calls for a new investigation. Here follows a brief quote or two from several of the individuals whose testimony is included in the article:

Ray McGovern, former Chairman of the National Intelligence Council and 27-year CIA veteran: "The 9/11 Report is a joke." “It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. . . (And there is) evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited.”


William Christison, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political, and 29-year CIA veteran: "We very seriously need an entirely new, very high level, and truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11. I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all." “The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them.”

Robert Baer, 21-year CIA veteran and specialist in the Middle East, was awarded the Career Intelligence Medal upon his retirement in 1997. During an interview by Thom Hartmann, Baer, after commenting on the financial profits being made from 9/11, was asked: “What about political profit? There are those who suggest that someone in (the U.S.) chain of command had pretty good knowledge that 9/11 was going to happen -- and really didn't do much to stop it -- or even obstructed efforts to stop it because they thought it would lend legitimacy to Bush's failing presidency.” Baer replied: “Absolutely.” Hartmann then asked, “So you are personally of the opinion that there was an aspect of 'inside job' to 9/11 within the U.S. government?" To which Baer replied, "There is that possibility, the evidence points at it." When Hartmann continued, "And why is this not being investigated?” Baer replied, "Why isn't the WMD story being investigated? Why hasn't anybody been held accountable for 9/11? We held people accountable after Pearl Harbor. Why has there been no change in command? Why have there been no political repercussions? Why has there not been any sort of exposure on all this? It really makes you wonder."

Robert David Steele has 25 years of combined service in the CIA and the U.S. Marine Corps. Second ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988 - 1992. Member of the Adjunct Faculty of Marine Corps University. His comment: "I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war. "I'm absolutely certain that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. There's no way that building could have come down without controlled demolition."

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_ ... rans_c.htm

Additional statements questioning the official account of 9/11, and calls for a new investigation, by hundreds of high-level military officers (now retired) and other highly-credible individuals, can be found at http://PatriotsQuestion911.com

Here’s some of the evidence that prompts them to call for a new investigation:

1 20-ton sections of steel beams were propelled, laterally, for a distance of up to 400 feet where they lodged in the sides of nearby buildings. (See video footage of this at http://www.ae911truth.org)


2 Molten metal was seen (and videotaped) gushing out the side of one of the twin towers. (Why is this significant? Jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit while office furniture, rugs and computers burn at an even lower temperature. Iron and steel don’t vaporize until their temperature gets close to 4000 degrees F. So what does burn at a temperature capable of vaporizing steel? Incendiary compounds known as thermate and thermite, which burn at 4500 degrees F. See more about this later in this article.)


3 Various explosions (some quite powerful) were seen, heard and felt by hundreds of people, including many firemen and policemen, prior to the collapse of the twin towers, but occurred well after the airliners collided with the buildings.


4 Huge numbers of extremely tiny iron spherules (formed when steel or iron vaporizes at extremely high temperatures) can be found in most of the 9/11 dust samples. (more evidence for thermite)


5 Many column sections seen in the wreckage of the twin towers were cut at 45-degree angles, and have, close to the cut lines, previously-melted 'drippings' produced when the steel was melted at a temperature much higher than can be produced by an acetylene torch. This kind of angle cut can be used to direct the falling beam inward.
Source for the above information is http://www.ae911truth.org, which is the web site of an investigative organization whose 200+ members are all either professional architects or professional engineers.

If there were no high-powered explosives detonated inside the twin towers, as the official explanation contends, then defenders of that official explanation must provide us with an alternate theory as to how those column and/or beam sections got embedded in the sides of buildings that were 400 feet away. (The compressed air created by floors collapsing one upon the other could provide nowhere near the energy required to propel a 20-ton beam or column section that far.) In addition, defenders of the official explanation must provide us with a plausible fuel source for the temperatures approaching 4000 degrees F. which would have been necessary to vaporize parts of many of the steel beam remnants found in the wreckage.

The evidence for incendiary cutting of steel consists of the video evidence, the forensic evidence in the dust and rubble, and the testimony of eyewitness early responders and survivors who saw glowing molten metal flowing out of window openings. These incendiary events and the forensic evidence strongly suggest that the official story is wrong. The chemistry of the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres that are found in the dust from the rubble, the chemical content of these microspheres suggest that the official story is wrong. http://www.journalof911studies.com/volu ... emistryWTC

So when could the explosives and incendiary materials have been planted?

The official record shows that various floors of each of the twin towers were completely closed off 'for repairs,' for days at a time. Monitoring TV cameras on these floors were disconnected.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html. Owner Larry Silverstein was perhaps in on the deal. Why suspect this? Well, for one thing he received a fabulous insurance settlement, after purchasing the WTC complex just weeks earlier under unusual circumstances. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein.html. The terrorist attack on the twin towers saved him the immense expense of having the towers demolished in the conventional way. (The towers had many structural problems. Two applications to have the buildings demolished were submitted by the previous owners because of the advanced galvanic corrosion that was taking place at each of the thousands of joints where aluminum parts were mistakenly put in tight contact with steel structural members.) http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that explosives and incendiary compounds might have been planted at strategic locations within the Twin Towers. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably prevented from doing their job in the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

Various floors in the Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a ‘power-down’ in parts of the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.


And, as an interesting coincidence, a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade center, thus giving it free reign within the buildings.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html
In addition to these facts, demolition-and-building-collapse experts have raised the possibility of "explosive tenants" -- i.e. tenants in the Twin Towers who might have planted explosives in their own rented office spaces. http://911blogger.com/node/2487



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:15 pm
by 2dimes
page 1.


You go girl! :snapemoticon:

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:15 pm
by cena-rules
why not just keep this to 1 thread

It is a load of bollocks

terrorists hijacked the planes and crashed into towers

so

SHUT THE f*ck UP

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:17 pm
by Gold Knight
... :roll:

Ok, you made your point, you believe in this conspiracy, we get it. I dont know what your trying to do anymore, if your wanting people to dislike you or you're just looking for attention, but please stop.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:36 pm
by xtratabasco
cena-rules wrote:
terrorists hijacked the planes and crashed into towers

so

SHUT THE f*ck UP



you sound like a little kid. lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

"stop it" "dont hit me"


"im telling"


:lol: :lol:

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:46 pm
by cena-rules
ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:48 pm
by mr. incrediball
nothing ever happens in november...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:50 pm
by xtratabasco
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11



so did these family members


http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:51 pm
by cena-rules
Im sure theyd hate these as well

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:52 pm
by xtratabasco
cena-rules wrote:Im sure theyd hate these as well



no, unlike you they know this government is lying.

go back and re-read

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:52 pm
by heavycola
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11


cena is right, the whole thing is disrespectful to the people who died. Especially your 'there amn't a plane at teh pentigun lol' idea, where you are basically saying that all the passengers on that plane, not to mention all the eyewitnesses, were nothing but government shills.

So have a hearty f*ck you once again.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:54 pm
by xtratabasco
I suggest you go somewhere else if it bothers you.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:54 pm
by xtratabasco
heavycola wrote:
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11


cena is right, the whole thing is disrespectful to the people who died. Especially your 'there amn't a plane at teh pentigun lol' idea, where you are basically saying that all the passengers on that plane, not to mention all the eyewitnesses, were nothing but government shills.

So have a hearty f*ck you once again.



these 190+ members of the 911 victims disagree with both of you and this government.

so I will continue my efforts.

If your feelings are hurt, dont look at this thread.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:02 pm
by Backglass
Your topic title is wrong. These people are NOT experts by any stretch.

So by your standards, anyone who worked for our government, the government you don't trust, is an expert in building demolition? I don't care if someone worked for the CIA for 10, 25, 100 years. That does NOT make them an expert in structural engineering.

It should read "Bitter ex-government employees say Gov. is lying about 911".

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:06 pm
by xtratabasco
Backglass wrote:Your topic title is wrong. These people are NOT experts by any stretch.

So by your standards, anyone who worked for our government, the government you don't trust, is an expert in building demolition? I don't care if someone worked for the CIA for 10, 25, 100 years. That does NOT make them an expert in structural engineering.

It should read "Bitter ex-government employees say Gov. is lying about 911".



lets see you prove that their bitter

nice try.

lol


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:06 pm
by heavycola
xtratabasco wrote:
heavycola wrote:
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11


cena is right, the whole thing is disrespectful to the people who died. Especially your 'there amn't a plane at teh pentigun lol' idea, where you are basically saying that all the passengers on that plane, not to mention all the eyewitnesses, were nothing but government shills.

So have a hearty f*ck you once again.



these 190+ members of the 911 victims disagree with both of you and this government.

so I will continue my efforts.

If your feelings are hurt, dont look at this thread.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html


So... you link to the testimony of a janitor* working in the basement who decided he 'didn't care what the scientists say'? That an explosion must have gone off below, despite the fact that this guy was underground himself? Every time I humour you idiots by reading your links or watching your movies, i have to ask myself again why i bother.

* Sorry - maintenance person. Clearly one of xtra's experts.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:11 pm
by Backglass
xtratabasco wrote:nice try.


Once again, you have avoided the reply altogether. You only see what you want to see through your blinders.

These people are NOT experts Xtra. NOT ONE has ANY expertice in structural engineering or demolition.

They are just like you, grasping at straws to explain away a tragedy.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:39 pm
by freezie
4 Huge numbers of extremely tiny iron spherules (formed when steel or iron vaporizes at extremely high temperatures) can be found in most of the 9/11 dust samples. (more evidence for thermite)


You wanted someone to bring up a proof on how to explain the planes vaporized after hitting the pantagon/twin towers?

There you go. You put up your own proof.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:51 pm
by Carebian Knight
For one, you can't prove they weren't bitter either xtra. Nice try #-o

Even if the thermite idea is correct, who's to say the terrorists didn't think about that and load thermite into the planes so that it would work.

Just like every other thread you've made about this you've hit a ](*,)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:06 pm
by jay_a2j
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11



Which is all the more reason you should want to know the truth of that happened that day. Instead of eating up the governments story. (however nonsensical it is)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:15 pm
by Guiscard
jay_a2j wrote:
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11



Which is all the more reason you should want to know the truth of that happened that day. Instead of eating up the governments story. (however nonsensical it is)


Not for one second could we be convinced by SEEING A PLANE FLY INTO THE FUCKING BUILDING!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:26 pm
by alex_white101
terrorists hijacked the plane and crashed them into the towers. not the government.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:40 pm
by jay_a2j
Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11



Which is all the more reason you should want to know the truth of that happened that day. Instead of eating up the governments story. (however nonsensical it is)


Not for one second could we be convinced by SEEING A PLANE FLY INTO THE FUCKING BUILDING!



Ya, just as David Copperfield makes his assistant disappear. Hey, we SAW it, so it must be true! She is GONE! Outta here! :roll:

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:41 pm
by Guiscard
jay_a2j wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
cena-rules wrote:ah you find it funny

I know people that died in 9/11



Which is all the more reason you should want to know the truth of that happened that day. Instead of eating up the governments story. (however nonsensical it is)


Not for one second could we be convinced by SEEING A PLANE FLY INTO THE FUCKING BUILDING!



Ya, just as David Copperfield makes his assistant disappear. Hey, we SAW it, so it must be true! She is GONE! Outta here! :roll:


Oh yeh. The two are 100% comparable.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:00 pm
by xtratabasco
Backglass wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:nice try.


Once again, you have avoided the reply altogether. You only see what you want to see through your blinders.

These people are NOT experts Xtra. NOT ONE has ANY expertice in structural engineering or demolition.

They are just like you, grasping at straws to explain away a tragedy.



Then how do you explain this items, who cares if there bitter or not. :roll:

Here’s some of the evidence that prompts them to call for a new investigation:

1 20-ton sections of steel beams were propelled, laterally, for a distance of up to 400 feet where they lodged in the sides of nearby buildings. (See video footage of this at http://www.ae911truth.org)


2 Molten metal was seen (and videotaped) gushing out the side of one of the twin towers. (Why is this significant? Jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit while office furniture, rugs and computers burn at an even lower temperature. Iron and steel don’t vaporize until their temperature gets close to 4000 degrees F. So what does burn at a temperature capable of vaporizing steel? Incendiary compounds known as thermate and thermite, which burn at 4500 degrees F. See more about this later in this article.)


3 Various explosions (some quite powerful) were seen, heard and felt by hundreds of people, including many firemen and policemen, prior to the collapse of the twin towers, but occurred well after the airliners collided with the buildings.


4 Huge numbers of extremely tiny iron spherules (formed when steel or iron vaporizes at extremely high temperatures) can be found in most of the 9/11 dust samples. (more evidence for thermite)


5 Many column sections seen in the wreckage of the twin towers were cut at 45-degree angles, and have, close to the cut lines, previously-melted 'drippings' produced when the steel was melted at a temperature much higher than can be produced by an acetylene torch. This kind of angle cut can be used to direct the falling beam inward.
Source for the above information is http://www.ae911truth.org, which is the web site of an investigative organization whose 200+ members are all either professional architects or professional engineers.

If there were no high-powered explosives detonated inside the twin towers, as the official explanation contends, then defenders of that official explanation must provide us with an alternate theory as to how those column and/or beam sections got embedded in the sides of buildings that were 400 feet away. (The compressed air created by floors collapsing one upon the other could provide nowhere near the energy required to propel a 20-ton beam or column section that far.) In addition, defenders of the official explanation must provide us with a plausible fuel source for the temperatures approaching 4000 degrees F. which would have been necessary to vaporize parts of many of the steel beam remnants found in the wreckage.

The evidence for incendiary cutting of steel consists of the video evidence, the forensic evidence in the dust and rubble, and the testimony of eyewitness early responders and survivors who saw glowing molten metal flowing out of window openings. These incendiary events and the forensic evidence strongly suggest that the official story is wrong. The chemistry of the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres that are found in the dust from the rubble, the chemical content of these microspheres suggest that the official story is wrong. http://www.journalof911studies.com/volu ... emistryWTC

So when could the explosives and incendiary materials have been planted?

The official record shows that various floors of each of the twin towers were completely closed off 'for repairs,' for days at a time. Monitoring TV cameras on these floors were disconnected.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html. Owner Larry Silverstein was perhaps in on the deal. Why suspect this? Well, for one thing he received a fabulous insurance settlement, after purchasing the WTC complex just weeks earlier under unusual circumstances. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein.html. The terrorist attack on the twin towers saved him the immense expense of having the towers demolished in the conventional way. (The towers had many structural problems. Two applications to have the buildings demolished were submitted by the previous owners because of the advanced galvanic corrosion that was taking place at each of the thousands of joints where aluminum parts were mistakenly put in tight contact with steel structural members.) http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that explosives and incendiary compounds might have been planted at strategic locations within the Twin Towers. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably prevented from doing their job in the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

Various floors in the Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a ‘power-down’ in parts of the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.


And, as an interesting coincidence, a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade center, thus giving it free reign within the buildings.
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... world.html
In addition to these facts, demolition-and-building-collapse experts have raised the possibility of "explosive tenants" -- i.e. tenants in the Twin Towers who might have planted explosives in their own rented office spaces. http://911blogger.com/node/2487