Muslim/Islam debate

[magruder]

Is someone here suggesting that historically, musliim culture was NOT based on a theocracy??

[Napoleon Ier]

musliim culture

It exists

[unriggable]

musliim culture

It exists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_culture

[Napoleon Ier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_culture#Terminological_disagreement

Muslim culture is a contentious term

[unriggable]

What about Xian culture?

[Napoleon Ier]

What about Xian culture?

What about it?

(I was using hyperbole)

[DaGip]

Is someone here suggesting that historically, musliim culture was NOT based on a theocracy??

Muslim culture is based on the premise that Islam is the one true religion of God (as the Catholics also did and many other religions). Muhammad (pbuh) established the Quran through the grace of Allah by the means of His Angel Gabriel (according to Muslim belief). The historical evidence is that Muhammad (pbuh) established this Quran as law to his followers...it is the basic sociological manifistation of society that you learn about in Sociology 101. However, not privy to those who have not researched it, Mohammad actually let Jews and Christians live within Muslim lands as long as they payed a Tax to the Muslims for allowing them to keep their religion and for protection. Failing to pay the tax would constitute rebellion and therefore would be dealt with severely. Apostasy of Muslims to another religion was strictly forbidden, and was (and is still) met with execution. So is this a Theocracy? I would say so, as all the benefit and larger portion of Liberties are attributed to the acknowledging masses whom follow such a religious philosophy.

[Napoleon Ier]

jews were tolerated early in his reign, when he needed mercenaries. Then he had them stoned...

[Keero]

Islam is by its nature a theocracy - politics and religion are specifically tied together.

Christianity, though it has been used as a theocracy on occasion, specifically allows the separation of church and state - 'render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's' as Jesus said. There is also a good deal more about not rocking the political boat than there is in Islam, and unlike the Q'ran there are no conflicting passages about spreading the True Religion by the sword when you have the power. Missionaries could be heavy-handed, but it was always missionaries who spread Christianity.

[mybike_yourface]

muslim culture is a bit of a vague term.

[DaGip]

muslim culture is a bit of a vague term.

please explain...

[b.k. barunt]

Guiscard would disagree with anything against Islam (i think they pay his salary), but he's sulking right now, so i don't think he'll show up.

I would say that Islam is most definitely a theocracy, and actually a religious facism. The similarities between an Islamic state and Nazi Germany are rather abundant - the main one of course being the complete annihilation of the Jews. You cannot be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Syria or Iran if you are not a muslim, to name only a few, and their goal is to achieve world domination by owning all the convenience stores.


Honibaz

[muy_thaiguy]

Guiscard would disagree with anything against Islam (i think they pay his salary), but he's sulking right now, so i don't think he'll show up.

I would say that Islam is most definitely a theocracy, and actually a religious facism. The similarities between an Islamic state and Nazi Germany are rather abundant - the main one of course being the complete annihilation of the Jews. You cannot be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Syria or Iran if you are not a muslim, to name only a few, and their goal is to achieve world domination by owning all the convenience stores.


Honibaz

I thought the last was Hindus though...

And there, I shall stop.

[borox0]

If i had a religion, i would probably be islam.

[b.k. barunt]

Forgive me for asking the obvious question, but why would that be?

[billy07]

could u imagine how good it would feel to put cold steel thru an arabs neck, getting me all excited just thinking about it. f*ck being PC, islam is the devils religion. How else could they be given a place in paradise for killing innocent men women and children.

[Skittles!]

could u imagine how good it would feel to put cold steel thru an arabs neck, getting me all excited just thinking about it. f*ck being PC, islam is the devils religion. How else could they be given a place in paradise for killing innocent men women and children.

I hope you die. Your narrow-mindedness and stupidity obviously knows no bounds.

Don't base your opinions in what the media or government tell you about, at least do a bit of research before you go ahead and make statements like that.

[Stopper]

could u imagine how good it would feel to put cold steel thru an arabs neck, getting me all excited just thinking about it. f*ck being PC, islam is the devils religion. How else could they be given a place in paradise for killing innocent men women and children.

I hope you die. Your narrow-mindedness and stupidity obviously knows no bounds.

Leave billy alone - look at his location. He's from South Shields - they're generally friendly people there, but a bit slow.

South Shields, by the way, also has one of Britain's oldest Muslim communities - a few thousand Yemenis who have been there since the 1890's. I haven't really any reason for saying that, except I happened to know it.

OK, back to the moronic Islam-bashing, everyone.

[Gustaf Wasa]

Neocons have hijacked the Republican Party in the U.S., turning it from being a party with conservative values to one that is only interested in invading Israel's enemies - the neocons nearly all come from Israeli lobby groups after all - with a few symbolic bones thrown to conservatives here and there. Like banning stem-cell research. Woohoo.

Their media want you to go along with their invasions without asking for evidence. ("We must be careful that the smoking gun doesn't come in the form of a mushroom cloud" - and people bought it.) The targets are Syria, Iran and Iraq, the three countries that give financial and diplomatic support to the Palestinian resistance - since most Arab governments are U.S. stooges, puppet regimes installed when the British Empire withdrew.

They don't tell you that the Iraqi infrastructure was bombed on average once a week for twelve years after the Gulf War. They don't tell you that the sanctions against Iraq killed half a million children - which Madeleine Albright said was "worth it" in an interview.

They don't tell you how Israeli soldiers used to be dropped on the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese side of the border to kill villagers, to provoke war so that the Israelis could invade, with American bombs, American airplanes, American tanks, American veto in the U.N security council.

They don't tell you how the U.S. supports tyrants like the House of Saud, who squander the people's money, for example in casinos in Monaco. In return, the puppets go along with whatever Israel and the U.S. want, and keep the people quiet.

Why should Arabs not hate the U.S. after all this? And most Americans don't know anything about it.

But still, 70 percent of Arabs polled had a positive view of the U.S. - before the invasion of Iraq.

Doesn't really rhyme with the "omg Muslims want to take over the world" line given you by the neocons, does it?

And if they really believed it, then why would the neocons support mass immigration of Arabs to the West? Bush has been leaning on West European countries for years to make them accept Turkey as an EU member, which would send tens of millions more Turks into Western Europe. The neocons want ethnic purity for Israel only, not for the West.


So please, let us stop repeating the neocon memes, about Islam being a vast plan to take over the world, about Muslims hating Americans - for no reason, of course. Meanwhile, who is invading who?

[Gustaf Wasa]

Neocons in the Weekly Standard and National Review (by the way, William Buckley, founder of the National Review, now publicly says that he regrets allowing the neocons to take over his magazine) love to spread the meme about "a red line of Islamic war against Christianity going back to the invasion of Spain."

Really. This meme "forgets" details like Muslim countries also fighting each other, like Christian countries have fought each other. It forgets many centuries of peace, diplomacy, trade - problems here and there, some wars, but hardly a vast plan.

The meme also forgets the Christian invasion of the world. How would an outsider portray that? "Look at this, the Christians have invaded North America, South America, Africa, the Middle East, Asia - and everywhere they forcibly converted locals. Christians are even now invading other countries. This is a Christian plan for world domination."

The following Islamic countries have been conquered by Christians: Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Chad, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Libya, Indonesia, Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Kyrgyz, Kazakhstan, Somalia, Sudan, and Uzbekistan. And occasionally Afghanistan (British and Russians).

This still leaves out many Muslim peoples conquered by Russia, such as Chechnyans.


So let's talk "religious hegemony" again, but with a wider knowledge of history. Beginning with the Crusades, who has been invading who?

[billy07]

Why does everyone think that muslims are blamless? Yes maybe i am a little narrow- minded on this subject but these people are mainly devoid of any human decency. If every muslim lived to the kuran i would`nt have a problem with them but the vast majority are underhand, sly, contradictory, double standard, disrespectful and lazy people you`ll ever have the misfortune to meet. oh not to mention-dirty fuckers. And to the PC brigade i say "get out of ur office and ur affluent suburbs and taste some real life" then say the same, fucking idiots.

[Stopper]

Why does everyone think that muslims are blamless? Yes maybe i am a little narrow- minded on this subject but these people are mainly devoid of any human decency. If every muslim lived to the kuran i would`nt have a problem with them but the vast majority are underhand, sly, contradictory, double standard, disrespectful and lazy people you`ll ever have the misfortune to meet. oh not to mention-dirty fuckers. And to the PC brigade i say "get out of ur office and ur affluent suburbs and taste some real life" then say the same, fucking idiots.

Get back into that tunnel of yours, you dirty Sand-dancer. Go on, get.

[billy07]

i would`nt want to get in the tunnel to start with, theres nowt on the other side i`ve heard.

[chessplaya]

Guiscard would disagree with anything against Islam (i think they pay his salary), but he's sulking right now, so i don't think he'll show up.

I would say that Islam is most definitely a theocracy, and actually a religious facism. The similarities between an Islamic state and Nazi Germany are rather abundant - the main one of course being the complete annihilation of the Jews. You cannot be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Syria or Iran if you are not a muslim, to name only a few, and their goal is to achieve world domination by owning all the convenience stores.


Honibaz

Lol living in the middle east i know better i think .... although i am not a muslim , i know some stuff about them

Anyway i dont know about iran , but i for sure know that more then 30% of the population in syria are christians and druze and not the exact same for saudi arabia as all saudi arabians are indeed muslims , christians and any other religion can in fact stay there and live there.. as long as they dont drink alcohol and all the other things that muslims are against

[Stopper]

i would`nt want to get in the tunnel to start with, theres nowt on the other side i`ve heard.

It wouldn't surprise me to hear that you've never ventured beyond the Tunnel, or even South Shields for that matter, you narrow-minded oik.