Conquer Club

It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.


John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776



We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.



John Adams, Address to the Military, October 11, 1798




John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!

[April 18, 1775]



How many observe Christ's birth-day! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments.


Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1743



Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry


Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."





Sorry had to go...(so I posted this incomplete) This was to show our founding Fathers were men of faith...Christians even.

not again.

what is this all supposed to be?

jay shoving his beliefs down peoples throats.

The1exile wrote:jay shoving his beliefs down peoples throats.

QFT!

christians once converted with fire and swords and now they're trying to do it with spam... i respect your religion, just don't impose it on every one else...

Original post edited add on at the end.

Jay, sorry to break this to you, but the american constitution was founded on secularism. Most of the founding fathers were probably diests, athiests, or that other "iests" I can't remember.


EDIT: probably bad information on someone's part here

Thomas Jefferson wrote this:
"The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."

James Madison wrote:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Ben Franklin wrote:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."

The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Source:
http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

jay_a2j wrote:Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

i don't see obligatory link between moral and religious.

The founding fathers also wore wigs as a fashion statement.

Therefore all Americans should accept the truth of wig-wearing and embrace it as the only path to true fashion-based redemption.

1796-1797, US Treaty with Tripoli, signed by the agent of plenipotentiary under John Adams:

Article 11: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html


This was a document authored by an American diplomat and signed by the President of the United States.

Wikipedia article on the treaty of tripoli:

The official treaty was in Arabic text, and a translated version provided by Consul-General Barlow was ratified by the United States on June 10, 1797. Article 11 of the treaty was said to have not been part of the original Arabic version of the treaty, and was from a letter from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli.

However it originated, it was undeniably a part of the treaty as approved by President John Adams and Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and ratified by the United States Senate by a unanimous vote.

Article 11 reads:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Article 11 has been a point of contention regarding the proper interpretation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. Supporters of the separation of church and state contend that this article is significant in that it confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. Supporters of the "Christian Nation" theory dispute this, arguing that the article in the treaty carries little or no significance.

Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, including the famous words in Article 11, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification, and the treaty was ratified by a unanimous vote of all 23 Senators. The treaty was reprinted in full in three newspapers, two in Philadelphia and one in New York City. There is no record of any public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_tripoli


EDIT: Damn you unriggable!

Simonov wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

i don't see obligatory link between moral and religious.

Atheists don't follow the line, and if everybody follows the line then there is no immorality thus the connection

by the way, Jay i don't get your avvy, imagine no brals?

vtmarik wrote:EDIT: Damn you unriggable!

: )

Our constitution was made for American people, of any kind.

If this was indeed a Christian nation, don't you think that would've been announced with a certain amount of pride and actually codified somehow? Like, written down in the Constitution that this nation is a Christian one?

It isn't though. And so, this isn't a Christian nation, it is simply a nation.

vtmarik wrote:Our constitution was made for American people, of any kind.

If this was indeed a Christian nation, don't you think that would've been announced with a certain amount of pride and actually codified somehow? Like, written down in the Constitution that this nation is a Christian one?

It isn't though. And so, this isn't a Christian nation, it is simply a nation.

One contradiction in the Declaration of Independence. It's not hard to find. Hint: It's toward the end.

The faith of my fathers...

Norse

unriggable wrote:

vtmarik wrote:Our constitution was made for American people, of any kind.

If this was indeed a Christian nation, don't you think that would've been announced with a certain amount of pride and actually codified somehow? Like, written down in the Constitution that this nation is a Christian one?

It isn't though. And so, this isn't a Christian nation, it is simply a nation.

One contradiction in the Declaration of Independence. It's not hard to find. Hint: It's toward the end.

The phrase Divine Providence, you mean?

There are lots of religions that use the term Divine. And just because there was a reverend in the Congress who signed that doesn't mean a thing.

And also, the Declaration of Independence isn't a document of law, it was basically a very polite message to the King saying that "We, the undersigned, on this day in July 1776 hereby humbly ask you to suck it."

mr. incrediball wrote:by the way, Jay i don't get your avvy, imagine no brals?

He accentuates the letters that spell LIE: LIbErals
Frankly all politicians lie, it's part of the job.

vtmarik wrote:

unriggable wrote:

vtmarik wrote:Our constitution was made for American people, of any kind.

If this was indeed a Christian nation, don't you think that would've been announced with a certain amount of pride and actually codified somehow? Like, written down in the Constitution that this nation is a Christian one?

It isn't though. And so, this isn't a Christian nation, it is simply a nation.

One contradiction in the Declaration of Independence. It's not hard to find. Hint: It's toward the end.

The phrase Divine Providence, you mean?

There are lots of religions that use the term Divine. And just because there was a reverend in the Congress who signed that doesn't mean a thing.

And also, the Declaration of Independence isn't a document of law, it was basically a very polite message to the King saying that "We, the undersigned, on this day in July 1776 hereby humbly ask you to suck it."

Wrong. "He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

unriggable wrote:

Simonov wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

i don't see obligatory link between moral and religious.

Atheists don't follow the line, and if everybody follows the line then there is no immorality thus the connection

and pedophile priest follow the line. christians most usually have what i call false morality and most athesist i know are more moral then them...

My father's faith is that my sister can still finish college... LOL!

Simonov wrote:

unriggable wrote:

Simonov wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

i don't see obligatory link between moral and religious.

Atheists don't follow the line, and if everybody follows the line then there is no immorality thus the connection

and pedophile priest follow the line. christians most usually have what i call false morality and most athesist i know are more moral then them...

But as long as you're christian nobody will point the finger. It's a bad reality, but that's what's been going on for over a thousand years.

unriggable wrote:Wrong. "He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

That's just good old fashioned racism.

The term savage is usually applied to aboriginal races on the basis that they aren't 'civilized' and does not necessarily refer to their religious beliefs.