The ring of Gyges

by **luns101** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:47 pm

I was recently trying to instigate some thoughts on ethics with some of the kids I teach. We started talking about why people obey the law. I brought up Socrates & Plato and the whole Ring of Gyges thing. (For those who don't know, you become invisible when you wear it.)

If you were invisible and could get away with breaking the law...would you do it or would you continue to try and be a good citizen?

by **misterman10** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:50 pm

Some laws I would brake, but most definitely not.

As long as long as the law I break doesn't hurt/kill/rape/etc. someone

by **hecter** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:50 pm

No, but I wouldn't do anything too bad, such as rape, theft of anything big, theft from peoples houses, murder, that kind of stuff. More just minor misdemeanors and mischief.

by **Arbustos** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm

What they said.

SAY NO TO RAPE.

by **Gold Knight** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm

Give Smeagle the Precious... :lol:

by **unriggable** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:00 pm

Gold Knight wrote:Give Smeagle the Precious...

Give wicked the 'precious'

by **vtmarik** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:16 pm

Yes and no.

I wouldn't kill, or rape, or do anything really heinous.

I might steal from Wal-Mart or some other giant corporation that has overhead and insurance for such a thing. Wouldn't steal from small-time, mom-and-pop shops.

by **unriggable** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:58 pm

Well it depends, on the degree that I obey the law now (that is, ignoring those unnecessary laws like jaywalking and statutory rape) I think I'd follow through. Being invisible would make it easy to get away, not that it matters since everybody with half a ball ignores the red hand in their face when they want to cross the street.

Not all laws are ethical and they certainly aren't necessary.

by **luns101** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:50 pm

Which brings to mind another question. Do we obey the law out of fear of punishment or because we respect that it's the correct thing to do?

Is being virtuous it's own reward? Do we need to have positive incentives to obey?

by **got tonkaed** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:53 pm

luns101 wrote:Which brings to mind another question. Do we obey the law out of fear of punishment or because we respect that it's the correct thing to do?

Is being virtuous it's own reward? Do we need to have positive incentives to obey?

I think im of the opinion that postive/negative reinforcement really guides the majority of our ethical behavior. Throughout history that have been a variety of things which have been more or less socially acceptable, things which have not been acceptable and things which have changed from time to time. In order to really have acceptable behaviors modified, people have to begin to adapt to new forms of positive reinforcement before the culture begins to catch the theory up to the praxis. People will being to feel that something isnt really wrong or will learn that they get some benefit out of it, far before it becomes socially accepted, and this in my estimation is because the reinforcement comes before we really establish what is virtous or as virtue changes.

by **dominationnation** on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:56 pm

I would do little things and just have fun and whatever. things that might break the law a little. I would do anything big though. Nothing that would get me more than a few days in a detention center.

by **Fircoal** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:15 am

I probably would just obey the law, and annoy my friends.

by **misterman10** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:27 pm

Fircoal wrote:I probably would just obey the law, and annoy my friends. and rape some pikachus

by **magneticgoop** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:07 pm

misterman10 wrote:
Fircoal wrote:I probably would just obey the law, and annoy my friends. and rape some pikachus

lol

by **NESconqueror** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:09 pm

luns101 wrote:I was recently trying to instigate some thoughts on ethics with some of the kids I teach. We started talking about why people obey the law. I brought up Socrates & Plato and the whole Ring of Gyges thing. (For those who don't know, you become invisible when you wear it.)

If you were invisible and could get away with breaking the law...would you do it or would you continue to try and be a good citizen?

I would destroy the world and rule it with an iron fist, or I could be a spirit and haunt people.

by **CrazyAnglican** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:22 pm

unriggable wrote:Well it depends, on the degree that I obey the law now (that is, ignoring those unnecessary laws like jaywalking and statutory rape) I think I'd follow through. Being invisible would make it easy to get away, not that it matters since everybody with half a ball ignores the red hand in their face when they want to cross the street.

Not all laws are ethical and they certainly aren't necessary.

I'd rethink the whole jaywalking while invisible thing, but that's not because of the law :lol:

by **CrazyAnglican** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:28 pm

luns101 wrote:Which brings to mind another question. Do we obey the law out of fear of punishment or because we respect that it's the correct thing to do?

Is being virtuous it's own reward? Do we need to have positive incentives to obey?

An interesting question. I find that, in my classroom positive and negative consequences are the least effective measures I take. Kids seem to behave when you've demonstrated that you will treat them well and fairly. Having an exciting lesson planned that they want to get into is more effective being a stickler for the rules. At least that's been my experience, it's a bit narrow I admit.

by **Syzygy** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:31 pm

I would definitely get up to a lot of mischief, besides the law isn't always right.

I also won't be doing anything like going on a killing/raping/arson/vandalism spree though.

by **hecter** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:54 pm

Syzygy wrote:I would definitely get up to a lot of mischief, besides the law isn't always right.

I also won't be doing anything like going on a killing/raping/arson/vandalism spree though.

I'd so go on a vandalism spree (nothing bad, just a lot of spray paint, and nothing on private property).

by **CrazyAnglican** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:56 pm

Syzygy wrote:I would definitely get up to a lot of mischief, besides the law isn't always right.

Agreed

Syzygy wrote:I also won't be doing anything like going on a killing/raping/arson/vandalism spree though.

I think that is the touchy area. When everything becomes relative (In this sense pefectly relative) I'm not certain I'd end up being the same person as a result of the chain of decisions I'd make.

For instance killing. I certainly wouldn't go out killing anyone. If he raped my best friend's sister, and I knew I'd escape the consequence, I might though. Worse yet, If I was almost certain that he raped my best friend's sister.

There would almost certainly be an addictive effect to this. Few pwople, begin drinking with the idea that they will become alcoholics and do terrible things to thier loved ones.

by **Syzygy** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:58 pm

You have a very good point - you can only truly know once you are in that position.

by **CrazyAnglican** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:04 pm

yep, and then it's too late. :oops:

fortunately there are no absolutes and we can move forward (and backwards) in our moral development.

by **Syzygy** on Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:11 pm

There are so many hypothetical situations you could think up.

Say, you've abstain from killing people with your new power, but then you get into fight with someone. Do you use the ring then and possibly kill them?

Anyway, at hector: Yeah, a little graffiti isn't bad at all. I know it is vandalism, but I don't really think of it as so.

The ring of Gyges

Would you continue to obey the law if you were invisible?

The ring of Gyges

Re: The ring of Gyges

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