Conquer Club

Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

Yeah. We are stuck in this time space boundary. But once you get used to it it ain't so bad.

Okay. Thank you for sharing that with us.

You know what book I really really love even though it's kinda poorly written and INCREDIBLY Euro-centric?

The Culture of Time and Space by Stephen Kern.

It's a history book, about how our conceptions of time and space were formed, mostly based on late 19th century, early 20th century scientific positivism. Just so fun to read, and so interesting, and really gets you thinking.

I recommend it to anyone who was just enthralled by my description of it.

Iliad wrote:Okay. Thank you for sharing that with us.

This morning my ass hurt. I thought it was my hangover. But when I went to take a shit a few hours later, I found a condom lodged inside the shit chunks. And then I remember what that fellow said to me...

"If you ever went camping and found a condom inside your ass one morning, would you tell anybody?"
"Uhhh, no!"
"Wanna go camping?"

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

What makes you think they are infinite? If they were, what is the chance of enough matter gathering in one place to form the known universe? Therefore, the only reasonable assumption (assuming that Time and Space are infinite, of course) is that there is roughly the same matter density everywhere, thus meaning inifnite matter. If there was infinite matter, then the entire universe would be as hot a the surface of the sun. Sinse this is plainly not true, I think we can discard the infinite space and time theory.

(This is all just basic logic on my part, with no actual research. Please tell me if my logic is faulty in some way)

Neutrino wrote:

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

What makes you think they are infinite? If they were, what is the chance of enough matter gathering in one place to form the known universe? Therefore, the only reasonable assumption (assuming that Time and Space are infinite, of course) is that there is roughly the same matter density everywhere, thus meaning inifnite matter. If there was infinite matter, then the entire universe would be as hot a the surface of the sun. Sinse this is plainly not true, I think we can discard the infinite space and time theory.

(This is all just basic logic on my part, with no actual research. Please tell me if my logic is faulty in some way)

Nah I think you're wrong but I'm not sure. Space is infinite and I hope we can agree on that. However whether time is infinite is another story. What might happen to the universe is after a long time after the big bang (I don't remember why exactly) the matter will start going back until a new big bang and then the cycle repeats. If that's the case then time is infinite.

Except for human stupidity, nothing lasts forever.
Space is not infinite. Even the Universe has boundaries y'know.

Minister Masket wrote:Except for human stupidity, nothing lasts forever.
Space is not infinite. Even the Universe has boundaries y'know.

prove it

Iliad wrote:

Neutrino wrote:

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

What makes you think they are infinite? If they were, what is the chance of enough matter gathering in one place to form the known universe? Therefore, the only reasonable assumption (assuming that Time and Space are infinite, of course) is that there is roughly the same matter density everywhere, thus meaning inifnite matter. If there was infinite matter, then the entire universe would be as hot a the surface of the sun. Sinse this is plainly not true, I think we can discard the infinite space and time theory.

(This is all just basic logic on my part, with no actual research. Please tell me if my logic is faulty in some way)

Nah I think you're wrong but I'm not sure. Space is infinite and I hope we can agree on that. However whether time is infinite is another story. What might happen to the universe is after a long time after the big bang (I don't remember why exactly) the matter will start going back until a new big bang and then the cycle repeats. If that's the case then time is infinite.

Yer, I've heard that theory. We're around half way along the cycle, so in 6 billion years we will have another big bang.

Neutrino wrote:

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

What makes you think they are infinite? If they were, what is the chance of enough matter gathering in one place to form the known universe? Therefore, the only reasonable assumption (assuming that Time and Space are infinite, of course) is that there is roughly the same matter density everywhere, thus meaning inifnite matter. If there was infinite matter, then the entire universe would be as hot a the surface of the sun. Sinse this is plainly not true, I think we can discard the infinite space and time theory.

(This is all just basic logic on my part, with no actual research. Please tell me if my logic is faulty in some way)

I do believe that your logic is faulted. You see, if there is infinite matter, disperesed over infinite amount of space then the density of the matter could remain quite low, although the total amount of matter is infinite.

They only seem infinite as we as a race are only exist in 3 dimensions. That is out of a total of 7. Any race that lives in 4 or more dimensions would seem to be able to control time or anything we think is infinite. Also we would think that they are a god or gods.

mandalorian2298 wrote:

Neutrino wrote:

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

What makes you think they are infinite? If they were, what is the chance of enough matter gathering in one place to form the known universe? Therefore, the only reasonable assumption (assuming that Time and Space are infinite, of course) is that there is roughly the same matter density everywhere, thus meaning inifnite matter. If there was infinite matter, then the entire universe would be as hot a the surface of the sun. Sinse this is plainly not true, I think we can discard the infinite space and time theory.

(This is all just basic logic on my part, with no actual research. Please tell me if my logic is faulty in some way)

I do believe that your logic is faulted. You see, if there is infinite matter, disperesed over infinite amount of space then the density of the matter could remain quite low, although the total amount of matter is infinite.

If the average density of the universe is enough to form stars, then YOUR logic is faulty. If stars can be formed outside of the known universe, then there would be an infinite number of stars. If there were an infinite number of stars, then every possible line would eventually impact with the surface of a star. This, coupled with infinite time (the radiation from all the stars has had an infinite amount of time to reach us) would mean that the entire sky would have to glow as hot as the surface of the sun.

Of course, if the average density of the universe is too low to form stars (and we live in a pocket of enhanced density) then my logic is proved false.

EDIT
Actually, I'm still correct even if the average density is too low to form stars, since there will be an infninite number of density anomalies, which will still make everything as hot as the sun.

Okay then, the universe has to be infinite because even if we came to a point where there were no stars or planets or any matter whatsoever, we would still be in the universe.

The creation story, God said "Let there be light"
Where was God standing?

diddle wrote:

Minister Masket wrote:Except for human stupidity, nothing lasts forever.
Space is not infinite. Even the Universe has boundaries y'know.

prove it

I can't. You will just have to trust me....

the universe is expanding - a well known fact since the days of hubble.
not just the galaxies within it, but the whole fabric of space-time is expanding.

rewind the film and you reach the big bang - where the universe was compressed to a single point.

now, how can its subsequent expansion ever lead to infinity?

if something is expanding then it cannot be infinite, can it?

in fact, the latest observations of the large scale universe indicate that the expansion is actually accelerating, precluding the big crunch theory.

in which case, the material universe will suffer a cold and lingering death enlivened only by stray low energy photons - the last remnants of decayed black holes.

like the universe, time had a beginning .........but it will have no end.

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

"You can't see the wood for the trees"

Space isnt infinite, but since scientists (assuming this is a ture fact) have hypothisised that it is increasing at the speed of light, then it is effectively infinite, although not literally.

However, not even scientists have been able to predict the amount of empty space in minister masket's head.

well i don`t think anyone is that brainy to work that out.

does anyone else think that there must be something else out there.

DAZMCFC wrote:well i don`t think anyone is that brainy to work that out.

does anyone else think that there must be something else out there.

something or someone

DAZMCFC wrote:well i don`t think anyone is that brainy to work that out.

does anyone else think that there must be something else out there.

There is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

dont know where you got that from norse?

how can the speed of anything "increase by the speed of light"?
that would imply that the expansion is faster than light.

the rate of the expansion of the universe is known as the hubble constant - HC -the highest measurement of HC was made by the astonomer Wendy Freedman and her team, and determined Hubble's constant to be about 80 kilometers per second per megaparsec which means that galaxies one megaparsec (3 million lightyears) distant appear to recede from us at a speed of 80 kilometers per second.

The Kurgan wrote:Time and space scare me. A lot. Mainly because they're infinite. And we have no idea what time is anyway because we can't experience it. We don't even know what space is like because we can't look at it.
We can't "step out" of time and space and see what they are because they are infinite.

If we dont know what space and time are and we have no way to "step out and look", then how do we know that they are both infinite?

the rate of the expansion of the universe is known as the hubble constant - HC -the highest measurement of HC was made by the astonomer Wendy Freedman and her team, and determined Hubble's constant to be about 80 kilometers per second per megaparsec which means that galaxies one megaparsec (3 million lightyears) distant appear to recede from us at a speed of 80 kilometers per second.

I was getting confused....the inflation at the begining of the big bang has been theorised to have expanded at many times the speed of light.....

What is the area called that the universe is expanding into?

yeah, you could be right norse - i've heard of a 'super-inflation theory' regarding the early universe, but i dont know the details.

in reply to kurgan - its wrong to think of anything outside the universe as being an area - an area has space and dimensions, non-universe does not.