Conquer Club

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:26 am**

-------159th Ann. Of The War Between The States :!:

...Today , 159 years ago, at 4:30am...April 12th ,1861...The SOUTH...Fired on Ft. Sumpter... The War was on... O:)

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:04 am**

ConfederateSS wrote:-------159th Ann. Of The War Between The States ...Today , 159 years ago, at 4:30am...April 12th ,1861...The SOUTH...Fired on Ft. Sumpter... The War was on... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

I thought it was a war of Northern Aggression?

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:43 am**

jimboston wrote:
ConfederateSS wrote:-------159th Ann. Of The War Between The States ...Today , 159 years ago, at 4:30am...April 12th ,1861...The SOUTH...Fired on Ft. Sumpter... The War was on... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

I thought it was a war of Northern Aggression?

-----It was....The North was in the SOUTH's backyard...at Ft.Sumpter...The SOUTH kindly asked the invading North to leave...with a few cannon balls...

...

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

...State's Rights was the biggest issue...Like today... Covid-19...each State setting it's own rules....Some States grabbing all masks..etc...Some States ordering stay at home....Some States still not ordering things...
....Or alcohol tax in Michigan....But Ohio...no tax....20oz pop costs...$1.20...in Mi....60(ish)cents in Idaho...$4.00 in NYC..Central Park....State's Rights !Baby!....

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:59 am**

ConfederateSS wrote:State's Rights was the biggest issue...

Yep.

The “Right” to enslave other people.

I get it.

I’m so sick of people claiming the War was about “State’s Rights”. It wasn’t. That was a euphemism. People used political speak back then just as well as they do now. The “State’s Rights” was a smokescreen for “the Peculiar Institution”... anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit.

(BTW... I’m not saying that the North fought primarily to “free the slaves”... they didn’t... they fought to keep the Union together and keep the existing power structure in place. Lincoln didn’t care about the slaves.)

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:49 pm**

----------I know it seems weird Today.......But Back then,even The Rev. War of !776...people thought of their states as their own country...Someone from New York, would call someone from Mass...Mass.Man…,or the other way..New York Man...not American...That is why,Gen.LEE told Lincoln NO...when offered command of The Union Army...LEE,said,he could not go against his counrty of Virginia...Yes ,slavery was another Big issue...But when The North invaded The SOUTH...Most of the people that fought were,not slave owners...But poor mountain and farm boys...The Rich Slave owners...sat back...like the Rich do in every war...Let the poor get killed...Most of the ones fighting the North...Were fighting ,like I said...because this is our land,and you are on it...Like if someone broke into your house...Are you going to fight back, protect you family and property...Or roll over like a LIBERAL :lol:

...

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:38 pm**

ConfederateSS wrote:----------I know it seems weird Today.......But Back then,even The Rev. War of !776...people thought of their states as their own country...Someone from New York, would call someone from Mass...Mass.Man…,or the other way..New York Man...not American...That is why,Gen.LEE told Lincoln NO...when offered command of The Union Army...LEE,said,he could not go against his counrty of Virginia...Yes ,slavery was another Big issue...But when The North invaded The SOUTH...Most of the people that fought were,not slave owners...But poor mountain and farm boys...The Rich Slave owners...sat back...like the Rich do in every war...Let the poor get killed...Most of the ones fighting the North...Were fighting ,like I said...because this is our land,and you are on it...Like if someone broke into your house...Are you going to fight back, protect you family and property...Or roll over like a LIBERAL ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

I don’t need a history lesson.
I understand that the definition and relationship of State(s) has changed over the past 240+ years.

I also recognize it was mostly lower-class or poor fighting ON BOTH SIDES of the war. As you point out... like it is in most wars.
(But not all wars... there are examples from history where the upper class were the primary combatants. That’s a conversation for another thread.)

That said... it still wasn’t about “State’s Rights”.

That was the label (a story) that the Southern Upperclass used to recruit the Southern Lowerclass to their cause.
It was propaganda. Pure and simple.

The rich slave-holding class wanted to keep their slaves and saw the election of Lincoln as a sign that the North would ultimately not let this “peculiar institution” persist. Lincoln wouldn’t have tried to end slavery there and then... but that was the general direction things were headed in... and the Southern Upperclass didn’t like it and felt the only way they could ensure the continuation of their institution (and hence retention of their power) was to secede.

Just because the Southern Lowerclass THOUGHT it was about “State’s Rights” doesn’t mean that’s what it was REALLY about.

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:51 pm**

jimboston wrote:
ConfederateSS wrote:----------I know it seems weird Today.......But Back then,even The Rev. War of !776...people thought of their states as their own country...Someone from New York, would call someone from Mass...Mass.Man…,or the other way..New York Man...not American...That is why,Gen.LEE told Lincoln NO...when offered command of The Union Army...LEE,said,he could not go against his counrty of Virginia...Yes ,slavery was another Big issue...But when The North invaded The SOUTH...Most of the people that fought were,not slave owners...But poor mountain and farm boys...The Rich Slave owners...sat back...like the Rich do in every war...Let the poor get killed...Most of the ones fighting the North...Were fighting ,like I said...because this is our land,and you are on it...Like if someone broke into your house...Are you going to fight back, protect you family and property...Or roll over like a LIBERAL ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

I don’t need a history lesson.

Yes, You do...........Because The War was not just about Slavery.......When Lincoln gave his speech freeing slaves..In a country he didn't lead....He didn't free slaves in the North...The State of Delaware…had slavery on the books until 1908.......Slavery was an issue of The War Between The States...Not THE ONLY ONE.......After the war...Lincoln wanted to send the freed slaves to Central America...He had no point in letting them be part of The North/USA....I guess ,John Wilkes Booth should get a statue next to MLKjr…Booth did the unknown...He kept Lincoln from executing his wish of Central America... O:)

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

…..MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE CARVED IN THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL...Or like everything else...The Memorial should be taken down...Because ,that's what America wants these days...

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:19 pm**

f*ck off

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:42 pm**

I had a feeling that was what you'd posted.

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:55 pm**

ConfederateSS wrote:
jimboston wrote:I don’t need a history lesson.

Yes, You do...........Because The War was not just about Slavery.......When Lincoln gave his speech freeing slaves..In a country he didn't lead....He didn't free slaves in the North...The State of Delaware…had slavery on the books until 1908.......Slavery was an issue of The War Between The States...Not THE ONLY ONE.......After the war...Lincoln wanted to send the freed slaves to Central America...He had no point in letting them be part of The North/USA....I guess ,John Wilkes Booth should get a statue next to MLKjr…Booth did the unknown...He kept Lincoln from executing his wish of Central America... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... …..MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE CARVED IN THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL...Or like everything else...The Memorial should be taken down...Because ,that's what America wants these days...

Slavery was THE issue for the Southern Upperclass.

“States Rights” was the issue that the Southern Upperclass used to convince the Southern Lowerclass to fight.

Economic Power and maintaining the status quo was THE issue for the Northern Upperclass.

“Preserving the Union” was the ribbon the Northern Upperclass used to convince the Northern Lowerclass to fight.

At no point have I ever stated or implied the North or Lincoln ever gave a crap about the slaves.
Lincoln has been quoted saying he’d basically take any action on that issue to “Preserve the Union”

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lin ... reeley.htm

Quote from Lincoln Letter...
“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”

I am well aware that Lincoln (and most Northerners for that matter) were racist and didn’t really care about the slaves.

I don’t suggest or pretend to suggest the North fought to end slavery. I do however contend that is exactly what the South fought to save. Anyone who believes the primary goal of the South, in leaving the Union and forming the Confederacy, was anything other than an attempt to preserve slavery is deluding themselves.

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:11 pm**

https://arcdigital.media/the-civil-war-in-the-souths-own-words-16cc6a6daa9e

Well, here’s the thing. It turns out several of the states in the Confederacy are super helpful on this point. They actually wrote down not just that they were leaving the Union, but why they were doing so.

They are called “Declaration of Causes”; there’s a website and everything.

One evening, I decided to take some time and read through them. Certainly, these documents form the basis of all those claims that the Civil War wasn’t about slavery, right? Let’s find out.

Mississippi

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery–the greatest material interest of the world.

Georgia

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years, we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Texas

The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article [the fugitive slave clause] …

Virginia

the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

Alabama

Our delegates selected shall be instructed to submit to the general convention the following basis of a settlement of the existing difficulties between the Northern and Southern States, to wit:

1. A faithful execution of the fugitive slave law …
2. A more stringent and explicit provision for the surrender of criminals charged with offenses against laws of one State and escaping into another.
3. A guaranty that slavery shall not be abolished in the District of Columbia …
4. A guaranty that the interstate slave-trade shall not be interfered with.
5. A protection to slavery in the Territories …
6. The right of transit through free States with slave property.

South Carolina

We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: “No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

Alexander Hamilton Stephens, who happened to be Vice President of the Confederacy, doesn’t want to be tedious about the truth when giving a speech about the shiny new Confederate Constitution:

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.

[Our government’s] foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.

{emphasis added}

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:41 pm**

Hey Duk... we’re on the same side!

... but I’m a “Right Winger”!

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:49 pm**

jimboston wrote:Hey Duk... we’re on the same side!

... but I’m a “Right Winger”!

A reasonable right-winger, most of the time...

Posted: **Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:15 pm**

----Duk...The Rich wrote those.......The average Johnny. REB ...was fighting for his home,state,country...I myself will take my father's favorite Confederate ....Rhett Butler/Clark Gable ....He was fighting for himself...

...The saddest thing was America losing it's Honor and Chivalry after the war...

...That is what "Gone With The Wind" is all about... O:)

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:26 am**

ConfederateSS wrote:----Duk...The Rich wrote those.......The average Johnny. REB ...was fighting for his home,state,country...I myself will take my father's favorite Confederate ....Rhett Butler/Clark Gable ....He was fighting for himself... ...The saddest thing was America losing it's Honor and Chivalry after the war... ...That is what "Gone With The Wind" is all about... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

The average Johnny REB was fighting because he was hoodwinked by the Oligarch Joseph REB.

“Gone With the Wind” is a FICTIONAL STORY.

Rhett Butler is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER.

Clarke Gable was an actor who was born in Ohio and moved as a young man to Hollywood.
He was not a Southerner.

I think that you getting your history from your dad via Hollywood Movies explains why you seem a bit uneducated about the truth.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:13 am**

------Here that everyone...Jimmy B...says the civil war was fiction...See, everyone can stop worrying, there is no contreversey ....whew!...problem solved...

...

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:16 am**

Did you hear that "whooshing" sound just then? It was a foot or two above SS's head.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:53 am**

jonesthecurl wrote:Did you hear that "whooshing" sound just then? It was a foot or two above SS's head.

-----Jones...I think he missed my point....Screw the Kennedy's as the media would have you believe...America's Camelot...was The SOUTH....We lost that type of Honor etc...But there still is Southern hospitality...But Elsewhere in the USA..Never had it.. O:)

ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:30 pm**

ConfederateSS wrote:------Here that everyone...Jimmy B...says the civil war was fiction...See, everyone can stop worrying, there is no contreversey ....whew!...problem solved... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Do you understand the difference between a documentary and a fictional story set in a historical time?
Also called “Historical Fiction”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fiction

https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... =985&dpr=2

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:31 pm**

ConfederateSS wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:Did you hear that "whooshing" sound just then? It was a foot or two above SS's head.

-----Jones...I think he missed my point....Screw the Kennedy's as the media would have you believe...America's Camelot...was The SOUTH....We lost that type of Honor etc...But there still is Southern hospitality...But Elsewhere in the USA..Never had it.. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

I didn’t miss your point... unless your point was something other than what you wrote.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:39 pm**

ConfederateSS wrote:I myself will take my father's favorite Confederate ....Rhett Butler/Clark Gable ....He was fighting for himself... ...

Your father’s “favorite Confederate” was either a fictional character or a Hollywood actor born in Ohio decades after the end of the Civil War.

ConfederateSS wrote:The saddest thing was America losing it's Honor and Chivalry after the war... ...That is what "Gone With The Wind" is all about... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Gone With the Wind was a fictional story.

Please explain what is Honorable or Chivalrous about owning people? Please explain what is Honorable or Chivalrous about ripping apart families because it’s more profitable to sell those children to another plantation in a different state?

Rich Southerners may have been honorable and chivalrous to other Rich Southerners. I doubt they acted so to Poor Southerners... and I KNOW they weren’t Honorable or Chivalrous to all the people they held in slavery. It’s sickening that people don’t recognize this and try to pretend the South was some wonderland.

Conquer Club

159th Ann. Of The War Between The States!!!

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