Conquer Club

if you are not fluent with the MCU.. you will have no clue what this topic is about..

if you are fluent with the MCU.. ponder this:

in the 1st Captain America movie.. Steve Rogers was in love with Peggy Carter. but then he took the super soldier serum , went to war and crash landed in the arctic sea getting frozen in ice for 50 some odd years.
Peggy went on to get married & have kids and lived out her life without Steve in it..

in Avengers Endgame. at the end.. Captain America went back in time. and seconds later he was an old man sitting on the bench.. and he told his teammates about how he went back in time and made sure not to get frozen in the ice & married Peggy Carter & they lived out their lives together..

but Steve knew Peggy had gotten married & had kids before he went back in time.. … he intentionally went back in time to be with her.. thus erasing the children she had with the guy she had married when Steve was frozen in the ice from ever being born... and he did this for his own personal satisfaction .. the satisfaction of being the one Peggy Carter loved.

that.. is evil

NomadPatriot wrote:if you are not fluent with the MCU.. you will have no clue what this topic is about..

if you are fluent with the MCU.. ponder this:

in the 1st Captain America movie.. Steve Rogers was in love with Peggy Carter. but then he took the super soldier serum , went to war and crash landed in the arctic sea getting frozen in ice for 50 some odd years.
Peggy went on to get married & have kids and lived out her life without Steve in it..

in Avengers Endgame. at the end.. Captain America went back in time. and seconds later he was an old man sitting on the bench.. and he told his teammates about how he went back in time and made sure not to get frozen in the ice & married Peggy Carter & they lived out their lives together..

but Steve knew Peggy had gotten married & had kids before he went back in time.. … he intentionally went back in time to be with her.. thus erasing the children she had with the guy she had married when Steve was frozen in the ice from ever being born... and he did this for his own personal satisfaction .. the satisfaction of being the one Peggy Carter loved.

that.. is evil

Obviously time travel does create some paradox issues, but the simplest answer i can give you is that those were always his kids, and not another mans (he just didn't know that until he lived through it).

mookiemcgee wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:if you are not fluent with the MCU.. you will have no clue what this topic is about..

if you are fluent with the MCU.. ponder this:

in the 1st Captain America movie.. Steve Rogers was in love with Peggy Carter. but then he took the super soldier serum , went to war and crash landed in the arctic sea getting frozen in ice for 50 some odd years.
Peggy went on to get married & have kids and lived out her life without Steve in it..

in Avengers Endgame. at the end.. Captain America went back in time. and seconds later he was an old man sitting on the bench.. and he told his teammates about how he went back in time and made sure not to get frozen in the ice & married Peggy Carter & they lived out their lives together..

but Steve knew Peggy had gotten married & had kids before he went back in time.. … he intentionally went back in time to be with her.. thus erasing the children she had with the guy she had married when Steve was frozen in the ice from ever being born... and he did this for his own personal satisfaction .. the satisfaction of being the one Peggy Carter loved.

that.. is evil

Obviously time travel does create some paradox issues, but the simplest answer i can give you is that those were always his kids, and not another mans (he just didn't know that until he lived through it).

+1 on Mookie’s synopsis

also he didn’t go back in time to stop himself from freezing in ice.

He froze, was unfrozen by Fury in “the present”, lived as Avenger Captain America for awhile... fought the good fight, saved the universe, then went back to the 50’s as 10-15yr older Steve Rogers and married Peggy who was waiting for him.

"After the Avengers defeated Thanos, Steve Rogers volunteered to go back through time and return the Infinity Stones and Mjølnir to where the Avengers had taken them in the timeline, but instead of returning to 2023 as planned, Rogers chose to travel to 1949 in order to live out the rest of his life with Carter, creating an alternate reality. Reunited with Rogers, she finally gets the dance he had promised to her, and the two eventually get married in secret and possibly had a child later on. After Carter's eventual death in 2016, Rogers returned to his original timeline to pass his shield to Sam Wilson."

the kid she had with her original husband got erased


https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter#Retirement

Steroids made Captain America a eunuch. In both timelines she still had kids with someone else.

NomadPatriot wrote:
the kid she had with her original husband got erased


https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter#Retirement

I mean you don't have to accept it if you don't want. I'm just explaining what the people who wrote it intended.

Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely wrote: It was always our intention that he was the father of those two children. But again, there are time travel loopholes for that.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247166 ... s-children


There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past.

To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy.

Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies (he is 25, she is 80). She has Alzheimers, which I guess was the filmmakers way of having her unable to explain all this to him in that scene before she dies. When I first watched endgame I was confused by this too, and I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. It was a way of closing the loop on a single reality story (Choosing to write a single reality story is also why they couldn't undo the 5 years of everyone being dead, they could still bring everyone back but they had to just accept that it was 5 years later.)

mookiemcgee wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:
the kid she had with her original husband got erased


https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter#Retirement

I mean you don't have to accept it if you don't want. I'm just explaining what the people who wrote it intended.

Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely wrote: It was always our intention that he was the father of those two children. But again, there are time travel loopholes for that.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247166 ... s-children


There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past.

To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy.

Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies (he is 25, she is 80). She has Alzheimers, which I guess was the filmmakers way of having her unable to explain all this to him in that scene before she dies. When I first watched endgame I was confused by this too, and I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. It was a way of closing the loop on a single reality story (Choosing to write a single reality story is also why they couldn't undo the 5 years of everyone being dead, they could still bring everyone back but they had to just accept that it was 5 years later.)

Alternate Reality...
if it was always Steve in her life.. it would not be an Alternate Reality.. it would just be . reality...

that is not how time travel works in the MCU...

NomadPatriot wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:
the kid she had with her original husband got erased


https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter#Retirement

I mean you don't have to accept it if you don't want. I'm just explaining what the people who wrote it intended.

Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely wrote: It was always our intention that he was the father of those two children. But again, there are time travel loopholes for that.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247166 ... s-children


There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past.

To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy.

Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies (he is 25, she is 80). She has Alzheimers, which I guess was the filmmakers way of having her unable to explain all this to him in that scene before she dies. When I first watched endgame I was confused by this too, and I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. It was a way of closing the loop on a single reality story (Choosing to write a single reality story is also why they couldn't undo the 5 years of everyone being dead, they could still bring everyone back but they had to just accept that it was 5 years later.)

Alternate Reality...
if it was always Steve in her life.. it would not be an Alternate Reality.. it would just be . reality...

that is not how time travel works in the MCU...

Your video entirely confirms I'm right...

According to Banner, you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future. Because the future is already your past! You can’t change the future, because if you did, you wouldn’t be the same version of yourself who time-travelled in the first place to make that change.

Steve didn't change his future, having kids with peggy was always his future. That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality...

Screenwriters Markus and McFeely:

"That is our theory," Markus said. "We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory. I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about '48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers. And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it's not like they'd be running into each other."

mookiemcgee wrote:
Your video entirely confirms I'm right...

According to Banner, you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future. Because the future is already your past! You can’t change the future, because if you did, you wouldn’t be the same version of yourself who time-travelled in the first place to make that change.

Steve didn't change his future, having kids with peggy was always his future. That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality...

your earlier statement:

mookiemcgee wrote:There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past. To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy. Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies

so which is it Snookie
" it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past...I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. "

or

" you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future...That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality.. "

1st you said him going back in time created an Alternate Reality... now your saying it was always his only singular reality, not an Alternate Reality...

you just 100% contradicted yourself..

also ( to concrete in that you are wrong.. ) .. how could her husband be the future version of Steve Rogers when her husband was rescued by .. ( wait for it...) --> Captain America <--.. during WW2...?

--> "During World War II, Peggy Carter's husband served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers. While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard. The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945. Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter."

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter%27s_Husband

&

--> "After the Avengers defeated Thanos, Steve Rogers volunteered to go back through time and return the Infinity Stones and Mjølnir to where the Avengers had taken them in the timeline, but instead of returning to 2023 as planned, Rogers chose to travel to 1949 in order to live out the rest of his life with Carter, creating an alternate reality"

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter

Cap saved her husband in 1945,., after Endgame, Cap went back to 1949...

creating an alternate reality

#Owned

Where does it say Cap saved her husband?

That could also be a euphemism... it could mean he ‘saved himself’.

If he went back to 1949 that was AFTER HE WAS FROZEN IN ICE... he was frozen in ice BEFORE WW2 ended.
So just that date alone and tells you he didn’t ‘not’ freeze.

He froze, went into suspended animation, lived his life in the 2000’s as Cap, then went back in time to a period after WW2 where he met a single Peggy Carter who was still waiting for her promised dance. There was NEVER another husband, he was always Peggy’s husband in the 50’s. He just didn’t know he was Peggy’s husband, because though the 1950’s was our past it was his future.

You own nothing.

jimboston wrote:Where does it say Cap saved her husband?

That could also be a euphemism... it could mean he ‘saved himself’.

If he went back to 1949 that was AFTER HE WAS FROZEN IN ICE... he was frozen in ice BEFORE WW2 ended.
So just that date alone and tells you he didn’t ‘not’ freeze.

He froze, went into suspended animation, lived his life in the 2000’s as Cap, then went back in time to a period after WW2 where he met a single Peggy Carter who was still waiting for her promised dance. There was NEVER another husband, he was always Peggy’s husband in the 50’s. He just didn’t know he was Peggy’s husband, because though the 1950’s was our past it was his future.

You own nothing.

"During World War II,
Peggy Carter's husband
served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers.
While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard.
The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945.
Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter"

can you read...?

Captain America went back in time to 1949.. so anything & everything before that point never changed..
all events before 1949 happened as they originally happened... nothing changed.

so go right ahead and explain how in 1945 Steve Rogers (Captain America) saved a battalion of soldiers in Stalingrad & one of the soldiers he saved was … Steve Rogers ( who you are claiming was always Peggy Carter's Husband )..

NomadPatriot wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:
Your video entirely confirms I'm right...

According to Banner, you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future. Because the future is already your past! You can’t change the future, because if you did, you wouldn’t be the same version of yourself who time-travelled in the first place to make that change.

Steve didn't change his future, having kids with peggy was always his future. That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality...

your earlier statement:

mookiemcgee wrote:There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past. To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy. Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies

so which is it Snookie
" it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past...I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. "

or

" you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future...That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality.. "

1st you said him going back in time created an Alternate Reality... now your saying it was always his only singular reality, not an Alternate Reality...

you just 100% contradicted yourself..

also ( to concrete in that you are wrong.. ) .. how could her husband be the future version of Steve Rogers when her husband was rescued by .. ( wait for it...) --> Captain America <--.. during WW2...?

--> "During World War II, Peggy Carter's husband served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers. While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard. The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945. Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter."

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter%27s_Husband

&

--> "After the Avengers defeated Thanos, Steve Rogers volunteered to go back through time and return the Infinity Stones and Mjølnir to where the Avengers had taken them in the timeline, but instead of returning to 2023 as planned, Rogers chose to travel to 1949 in order to live out the rest of his life with Carter, creating an alternate reality"

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter

Cap saved her husband in 1945,., after Endgame, Cap went back to 1949...

creating an alternate reality

#Owned

Umm, I guess you can't read but in both of my posts I said there was not an alternate reality:

statement 1 - "they did not intend for a 'alternate reality'"

statement 2 -"That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality"

how do these two statements conflict? What i've said over and over is he did not change the past or the future, because this was always his past and future.

also...

"During World War II,
Peggy Carter's husband
served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers.
While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard.
The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945.
Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter"

did you see this in the movie or just read it in a blog?

The line is "he saved over a thousand men including the man who would become my husband, as it turned out." - which she said while she had alzhiemers and it in no way proves her husband wasn't Steve Rogers.

So again, maybe you should read what the people that WROTE THE MOVIE intended and not what some blog summary from a fan wrote.

You were owned on this by my first post, and now you just look like an idiot arguing against what THE FILMMAKERS SAID ON THIS EXACT SUBJECT.

the MCU timeline we’ve been watching was always the one where Steve went back to be with Peggy in the end. All 22 movies. End of story.

mookiemcgee wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:
Your video entirely confirms I'm right...

According to Banner, you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future. Because the future is already your past! You can’t change the future, because if you did, you wouldn’t be the same version of yourself who time-travelled in the first place to make that change.

Steve didn't change his future, having kids with peggy was always his future. That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality...

your earlier statement:

mookiemcgee wrote:There never was a man other than Steve rogers, it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past. To put it another way, Stever rogers at age 25 was frozen, steve at age 42 went back into past and lived the rest of his life with Peggy. Steve may have believed she married another man when he looked her up in the future in the early movies

so which is it Snookie
" it was the future version of steve rogers that was living with her in the past...I don't think they really wrapped all the loose ends up very well but they did not intend for a 'alternate reality' to be created by cap traveling back. "

or

" you can’t just go back in time and change the past in order to alter the future...That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality.. "

1st you said him going back in time created an Alternate Reality... now your saying it was always his only singular reality, not an Alternate Reality...

you just 100% contradicted yourself..

also ( to concrete in that you are wrong.. ) .. how could her husband be the future version of Steve Rogers when her husband was rescued by .. ( wait for it...) --> Captain America <--.. during WW2...?

--> "During World War II, Peggy Carter's husband served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers. While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard. The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945. Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter."

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter%27s_Husband

&

--> "After the Avengers defeated Thanos, Steve Rogers volunteered to go back through time and return the Infinity Stones and Mjølnir to where the Avengers had taken them in the timeline, but instead of returning to 2023 as planned, Rogers chose to travel to 1949 in order to live out the rest of his life with Carter, creating an alternate reality"

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter

Cap saved her husband in 1945,., after Endgame, Cap went back to 1949...

creating an alternate reality

#Owned

Umm, I guess you can't read but in both of my posts I said there was not an alternate reality:

statement 1 - "they did not intend for a 'alternate reality'"

statement 2 -"That is his . (ONLY,SINGULAR, NOT ALTERNATE)reality"

how do these two statements conflict? What i've said over and over is he did not change the past or the future, because this was always his past and future.

also...

"During World War II,
Peggy Carter's husband
served as a member of a battalion of over one thousand soldiers.
While fighting behind the German line just outside Stalingrad, the entire battalion was trapped by a blizzard.
The battalion was pinned down by a HYDRA blockade for several months before they were rescued by Captain America in 1945.
Following the war's end, he married Carter, with whom he had a son and daughter"

did you see this in the movie or just read it in a blog?

The line is "he saved over a thousand men including the man who would become my husband, as it turned out." - which she said while she had alzhiemers and it in no way proves her husband wasn't Steve Rogers.

So again, maybe you should read what the people that WROTE THE MOVIE intended and not what some blog summary from a fan wrote.

You were owned on this by my first post, and now you just look like an idiot arguing against what THE FILMMAKERS SAID ON THIS EXACT SUBJECT.

the MCU timeline we’ve been watching was always the one where Steve went back to be with Peggy in the end. All 22 movies. End of story.

via the official Marvel Cinematic Universe wiki page .. the same page I have been referencing this entire time.. not some random blog

--> " Peggy Carter's Husband was the United States Army soldier during World War II who later married Peggy Carter in the original timeline. "

… in the original Timeline...

so just explain how Captain America could save himself in 1945 when he time traveled back to 1949.... 4 years after the Stalingrad event... the husband who you are claiming is Steve Rogers

" Peggy Carter's Husband was the United States Army soldier during World War II who later married Peggy Carter in the original timeline. "

1) This wiki is fan generated not doctrine.

2) He saved himself and all the other soldiers in the first Captain American film.
It’s a euphemism. By ‘saving’ himself Peggy means that he saved himself from being a puppet and prop for the US Gov’t... stopped being a PR Gimmick used to raise war bonds... and stood up to save himself and do what he was intended to do.

bottom line... there’s multiple ways to interpret it.... and this was intentional on the part of the creators of the movie.

Cynical pricks can choose to interpret it in a negative way. Those of us with faith in the righteousness of Captain America will choose to interpret it in that light.

You can’t prove you’re right... and neither can we. So go back to your negative little hole.

Why Stalingrad? Was he russian and Black Windows father?

jimboston wrote:" Peggy Carter's Husband was the United States Army soldier during World War II who later married Peggy Carter in the original timeline. "

1) This wiki is fan generated not doctrine.

2) He saved himself and all the other soldiers in the first Captain American film.
It’s a euphemism. By ‘saving’ himself Peggy means that he saved himself from being a puppet and prop for the US Gov’t... stopped being a PR Gimmick used to raise war bonds... and stood up to save himself and do what he was intended to do.

then just reference 'Doctrine' then.. Jimmy..

Peggy never said anything about Steve saving himself...

it's hard to worm yourself out of this checkmate.. isn't it..

NomadPatriot wrote:

jimboston wrote:" Peggy Carter's Husband was the United States Army soldier during World War II who later married Peggy Carter in the original timeline. "

1) This wiki is fan generated not doctrine.

2) He saved himself and all the other soldiers in the first Captain American film.
It’s a euphemism. By ‘saving’ himself Peggy means that he saved himself from being a puppet and prop for the US Gov’t... stopped being a PR Gimmick used to raise war bonds... and stood up to save himself and do what he was intended to do.

then just reference 'Doctrine' then.. Jimmy..

Peggy never said anything about Steve saving himself...

it's hard to worm yourself out of this checkmate.. isn't it..

she never said anything that contradicted it

and given Captain America’s personality we have to assume he’d do the right thing, which is what he’s done every time before... so...

It’s impossible to get out of checkmate.

This isn’t the case.

jimboston wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:

jimboston wrote:" Peggy Carter's Husband was the United States Army soldier during World War II who later married Peggy Carter in the original timeline. "

1) This wiki is fan generated not doctrine.

2) He saved himself and all the other soldiers in the first Captain American film.
It’s a euphemism. By ‘saving’ himself Peggy means that he saved himself from being a puppet and prop for the US Gov’t... stopped being a PR Gimmick used to raise war bonds... and stood up to save himself and do what he was intended to do.

then just reference 'Doctrine' then.. Jimmy..

Peggy never said anything about Steve saving himself...

it's hard to worm yourself out of this checkmate.. isn't it..

she never said anything that contradicted it

and given Captain America’s personality we have to assume he’d do the right thing, which is what he’s done every time before... so...

It’s impossible to get out of checkmate.

This isn’t the case.

yes .. she did.
she said Captain America rescued her husband in 1945... it would be impossible for Captain America to rescue steve rogers in 1945... there was only 1 steve rogers in play in 1945..
in 1949.. there was 2... 1 frozen in ice & the one who went back in time.. but in 1945.. there was always only 1..

so you:
- cannot reference any "Doctrine" to back-up what you are saying..

- you are assuming a situation based upon Captain America's personality

- you know you cannot get out of this checkmate you are in..

sorry Jim.. you lose..

yawn

euphemism

alzheimer’s

also you’re back on ‘ignore’

I thought we could chat about something other than politics and it might be civil but nope.

jimboston wrote:also you’re back on ‘ignore’

I thought we could chat about something other than politics and it might be civil but nope.

didn't realize it wasn't civil... what part of our conversation made it "uncivilized"...?

oh wait .. being civil to you is ( once again... ) claiming things you can't back up.. & when you get checkmated & cornered in your argument you run away crying...

you never change Jimmy...

ignore away .. you never win anyways..