al-Shabaab bans single-use plastics

[mrswdk]

The Somali militant Islamist group al-Shabaab has banned single-use plastic bags, according to a media outlet affiliated with the group.

In a broadcast on the jihadist-operated Radio Andalus last week, Jubaland regional leader Mohammed Abu Abdullah said plastic bags are a “serious” threat to both humans and livestock and the waste they cause is bad for the environment.

In the same announcement, the al-Qaeda-affiliated group also banned the logging of rare trees.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 28641.html

[jimboston]

I’m banning single-use plastic.

starting right now.

The effect my statement (and subsequent actions) have on the environment is not measurably different than the effect al-Shabaab’s statement has/will have.

[2dimes]

Add Jim to the poll.

[mrswdk]

No. jim basically just stated that he has no intention of adhering to his own ban, so he does not deserve a place alongside al-Shabaab (people of action and change).

[KoolBak]

I do believe NomadPatsy has taken over china boy's account. Or they're roomies now. This was truly the most pathetic post made yet....and THAT'S saying a LOT.

Also willing to bet that the NUMBER of americans that personally banned single use bags is multiple thousands to millions of times the number of terrorists. All in how you spin the numbers dumbass

[2dimes]

Because he's copying Saxi?

[jimboston]

No. jim basically just stated that he has no intention of adhering to his own ban, so he does not deserve a place alongside al-Shabaab (people of action and change).

Whether or not I adhere to my personal ban (and I never said I wouldn’t)... but regardless my point is the same and still valid.

My statement has the same measurable impact on the environment as that terrorist organization’s statement.

... if you can’t follow... neither will really make any measurable impact.

[karel]

im going to burn more plastic now

[mrswdk]

Whether or not I adhere to my personal ban (and I never said I wouldn’t)... but regardless my point is the same and still valid.

My statement has the same measurable impact on the environment as that terrorist organization’s statement.

al-Shabaab controls areas of Somalia with a total population of 1-2 million. Sorry that you feel so ineffectual but that’s no reason to take it out on them.

[jimboston]

Whether or not I adhere to my personal ban (and I never said I wouldn’t)... but regardless my point is the same and still valid.

My statement has the same measurable impact on the environment as that terrorist organization’s statement.

al-Shabaab controls areas of Somalia with a total population of 1-2 million. Sorry that you feel so ineffectual but that’s no reason to take it out on them.

I don’t believe they...
- Have the means to truly enforce this in a meaningful way.
- This is PR bullshit and they also have no interest in enforcing it.
- The economy is so bad/different that’s there’s really no such thing as ‘single use’ as plastic bags and bottles are reused till they fall apart... so banning ‘single use’ is essentially accomplishes nothing.
- That if there’s money to be made for the higher-ups in the organization that they will happily ignore whatever rules they choose.

All these things and more to varying degrees will make this ‘banning’ completely meaningless in terms of it’s real world impact to the global environment.

You want to help the environment is Somalia?
Allow/encourage birth control.
The population of the planet is too high... but there are regions where the local population/environment ratio is way out of whack. The environment of that region cannot support the population. Encourage a reduction (or at least a slowing of growth) of the population over time and you’ll do more for the environment both locally and globally.

[mrswdk]

I don’t believe they...
- Have the means to truly enforce this in a meaningful way.
- This is PR bullshit and they also have no interest in enforcing it.
- The economy is so bad/different that’s there’s really no such thing as ‘single use’ as plastic bags and bottles are reused till they fall apart... so banning ‘single use’ is essentially accomplishes nothing.
- That if there’s money to be made for the higher-ups in the organization that they will happily ignore whatever rules they choose.

Don't worry guys, what he's lacking in evidence he more than makes up for in conviction!

[jimboston]

I don’t believe they...
- Have the means to truly enforce this in a meaningful way.
- This is PR bullshit and they also have no interest in enforcing it.
- The economy is so bad/different that’s there’s really no such thing as ‘single use’ as plastic bags and bottles are reused till they fall apart... so banning ‘single use’ is essentially accomplishes nothing.
- That if there’s money to be made for the higher-ups in the organization that they will happily ignore whatever rules they choose.

Don't worry guys, what he's lacking in evidence he more than makes up for in conviction!

... and what evidence do o you provide that their statement will in fact make an impact?

It’s a BS political statement about the environment from a know terrorist organization.

It has no value. I don’t have to look into any further to know it’s BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaa ... tant_group)

It’s also olde news...

“ Plastic bag ban[edit]
In July 2018, al-Shabaab announced a complete ban on single-use plastic bags within its territory in a broadcast as they "pose a serious threat to the well-being of humans and animals alike," whilst also forbidding the logging of several species of rare trees in the same announcement.[180] Some have argued that, whilst these environment-conscious advances are welcome, they are overshadowed by the group's terrorist activities, whilst others have mocked the United States and other countries for taking less action on climate change than a terrorist group.[181] This follows the Taliban's message from 2017 to "plant one or several fruit or non-fruit trees for the beautification of Earth and the benefit of almighty Allah's creations." A spokesman for Afghan President Ashraf Ghani, Shah Hussain Murtazawi described these environmentally friendly messages as an attempt to deceive public opinion and to distract from the Taliban's "crimes and destruction".[182]”

[mrswdk]

I don’t believe they...
- Have the means to truly enforce this in a meaningful way.
- This is PR bullshit and they also have no interest in enforcing it.
- The economy is so bad/different that’s there’s really no such thing as ‘single use’ as plastic bags and bottles are reused till they fall apart... so banning ‘single use’ is essentially accomplishes nothing.
- That if there’s money to be made for the higher-ups in the organization that they will happily ignore whatever rules they choose.

Don't worry guys, what he's lacking in evidence he more than makes up for in conviction!

... and what evidence do o you provide that their statement will in fact make an impact?

The fact they control an area of Somalia with 1-2 million people living in it.

It's nice that you're so sure of yourself when you say that you're able to read the minds of al-Shabaab's leaders and deduce their real motives, or when you assert that a renowned military group has no means of exerting control over ordinary civilians or its own subordinates, or when you declare that poor Africans probably don't throw away plastic bags because they're so poor that they treasure their lovely plastic bags for eternity (if they find an American-branded plastic bag do you reckon they hang it up in their living room?). I think that to any sane person those statements sound quite obviously wrong though, so I will treat them as such until you provide some objective evidence that any of them might be even slightly true.

[jimboston]

I don’t believe they...
- Have the means to truly enforce this in a meaningful way.
- This is PR bullshit and they also have no interest in enforcing it.
- The economy is so bad/different that’s there’s really no such thing as ‘single use’ as plastic bags and bottles are reused till they fall apart... so banning ‘single use’ is essentially accomplishes nothing.
- That if there’s money to be made for the higher-ups in the organization that they will happily ignore whatever rules they choose.

Don't worry guys, what he's lacking in evidence he more than makes up for in conviction!

... and what evidence do o you provide that their statement will in fact make an impact?

The fact they control an area of Somalia with 1-2 million people living in it.

It's nice that you're so sure of yourself when you say that you're able to read the minds of al-Shabaab's leaders and deduce their real motives, or when you assert that a renowned military group has no means of exerting control over ordinary civilians or its own subordinates, or when you declare that poor Africans probably don't throw away plastic bags because they're so poor that they treasure their lovely plastic bags for eternity (if they find an American-branded plastic bag do you reckon they hang it up in their living room?). I think that to any sane person those statements sound quite obviously wrong though, so I will treat them as such until you provide some objective evidence that any of them might be even slightly true.

Al-Shabaab made this statement two years ago.

How has it impacted the local/global environment?

You’re making a claim that it does, so I think the burden of proof. is on you and they’ve had two years to see an impact.

Yes my statements are anecdotal or deduced... but come on. Use logic.

The main purpose for the existence of this group is to take control of the region they operate in... they’re purpose isn’t to administer it or fight to environment fight. Get over yourself. You’re over-simplifying the what it means when. you say they “control” and area with 1-2 million people. They may have some support in these areas, but they don’t administer these areas the way we would understand it in the US or Europe. They are not the same as a gov’t which controls all imports/exports and everyday life.

[mrswdk]

Al-Shabaab made this statement two years ago.

How has it impacted the local/global environment?

jimboston will now take any and all policies and laws produced by the American government to have been useless and ineffectual until he has personally viewed quantitative evidence that they have definitely had an impact.

The main purpose for the existence of this group is to take control of the region they operate in... they’re purpose isn’t to administer it or fight to environment fight.

1) al-Shabaab's aim is to overthrow the current government in Mogadishu and take control of all Somalia.
2) They're not just sat in tents, cradling their guns and waiting to go out and attack people. Several years ago they set up and implemented a system of taxing and regulating the aid agencies that operate in the territory they control, for example.
3) If the fact they have outlawed used of single-use plastics within the territory they control doesn't show you that they want to take action to improve the environment then nothing will.

The outlawing of plastic bags and other similar items isn't exactly a radical, head in the clouds policy. There are numerous countries across Africa that have blanket bans on plastic bags in place. In Kenya the punishment for using one can be up to four years in jail.

They may have some support in these areas, but they don’t administer these areas the way we would understand it in the US or Europe. They are not the same as a gov’t which controls all imports/exports and everyday life.

Oh okay, if they don't come with all the same institutions as a European government then they clearly have no power to control anything whatsoever and are probably just ignored by the people who live in areas under their control. Well done, jim, you win again!

[jimboston]

Al-Shabaab made this statement two years ago.

How has it impacted the local/global environment?

jimboston will now take any and all policies and laws produced by the American government to have been useless and ineffectual until he has personally viewed quantitative evidence that they have definitely had an impact.

Not personally... either that or at least until I have heard from trusted sources that the policies have been effective.

The main purpose for the existence of this group is to take control of the region they operate in... they’re purpose isn’t to administer it or fight to environment fight.

1) al-Shabaab's aim is to overthrow the current government in Mogadishu and take control of all Somalia.

Yeah? Relevance? None.

Obvious / redundant statement.

2) They're not just sat in tents, cradling their guns and waiting to go out and attack people. Several years ago they set up and implemented a system of taxing and regulating the aid agencies that operate in the territory they control, for example.

Taxing aid agencies? In other words when we send aid to the people they steal a part of it.
Sounds more like organized crime / the Mafia.

Just another reason to NOT donate. If a portion of my donation to help THE PEOPLE is confiscated by a Terrorist Organization, allied with other Radical Islamic Terrorist Organizations, then my donation essentially support Terrorism.

Note to self... stop donating money.

3) If the fact they have outlawed used of single-use plastics within the territory they control doesn't show you that they want to take action to improve the environment then nothing will.

I’m saying it’s ineffectual and IMHO more about politics nd image and less about actual change.
Prove me wrong.

A statement from a Terrorist Organization is meaningless. Show me actions...

from CFR website
“In areas it controls, al-Shabab enforces its own harsh interpretation of sharia, prohibiting various types of entertainment, such as movies and music; the sale of khat, a narcotic plant that is often chewed; smoking; and the shaving of beards. Stonings and amputations have been meted out to suspected adulterers and thieves. The group bans cooperation with humanitarian agencies, blocking aid deliveries as famine loomed in 2017. This forced some eight hundred thousand to flee their homes, according to the United Nations.”

If Al-Shabaab wasn’t opposed to the USA and “the West” you would hate them because they’re fundamentalist religious.
Your defense of them here is clearly trolling hypocrisy.

The outlawing of plastic bags and other similar items isn't exactly a radical, head in the clouds policy. There are numerous countries across Africa that have blanket bans on plastic bags in place. In Kenya the punishment for using one can be up to four years in jail.

They may have some support in these areas, but they don’t administer these areas the way we would understand it in the US or Europe. They are not the same as a gov’t which controls all imports/exports and everyday life.

Oh okay, if they don't come with all the same institutions as a European government then they clearly have no power to control anything whatsoever and are probably just ignored by the people who live in areas under their control. Well done, jim, you win again!

Nope.. didn’t say that.

I did say that if the mandates don’t come from a government that can police them and will police them then they are meaningless.

If you can show me where this mandate has had a more significant “measurable” impact on the environment than my own personal ban... I would be happy to look at such evidence. If you go back to the beginning of this thread that is my statement, and I stand by it.

You’ve yet to prove me wrong.

[mrswdk]

from CFR website
“In areas it controls, al-Shabab enforces its own harsh interpretation of sharia, prohibiting various types of entertainment, such as movies and music; the sale of khat, a narcotic plant that is often chewed; smoking; and the shaving of beards. Stonings and amputations have been meted out to suspected adulterers and thieves. The group bans cooperation with humanitarian agencies, blocking aid deliveries as famine loomed in 2017. This forced some eight hundred thousand to flee their homes, according to the United Nations.”

So you believe that al-Shabaab are actively enforcing a code of laws and regulating the activity of humanitarian organisations within their boundaries, and you accept that al-Shabaab's aim is to rule Somalia, but at the same time you also believe that al-Shabaab have no interest in engaging in any administration or the running of the areas they control?

I did say that if the mandates don’t come from a government that can police them and will police them then they are meaningless.

And you just posted a source that provides clear evidence of al-Shabaab enforcing multiple different regulations of theirs quite effectively. Which part of this is confusing you?

[jimboston]

So you believe that al-Shabaab are actively enforcing a code of laws and regulating the activity of humanitarian organisations within their boundaries, and you accept that al-Shabaab's aim is to rule Somalia, but at the same time you also believe that al-Shabaab have no interest in engaging in any administration or the running of the areas they control?

No I believe they are stealing from Aid Organizations when they can.

[mrswdk]

Oh dear. You wouldn't be very good at those reading comprehension tests would you? Best stick to flippin' them burgers.

[2dimes]

Don't tease me. If Jim is actually making burgers I need to know where so I can check them out.

[jimboston]

Oh dear. You wouldn't be very good at those reading comprehension tests would you? Best stick to flippin' them burgers.

If I was having trouble understanding you this would make sense.

However what’s happening here is that you’re willfully ignoring my points and trying to be witty about it...

... I don’t think you’re fooling anyone.

[mrswdk]

Oh dear. You wouldn't be very good at those reading comprehension tests would you? Best stick to flippin' them burgers.

If I was having trouble understanding you

It's your own quotes you're failing to understand.

[jimboston]

Oh dear. You wouldn't be very good at those reading comprehension tests would you? Best stick to flippin' them burgers.

If I was having trouble understanding you

It's your own quotes you're failing to understand.

You say they tax Aid, I say they steal Aid.

I think since they’re not a widely recognized legal Gov’t steal is a more appropriate term.

So either your dumb (which I don’t believe) or you’re willfully misinterpreting my comments.

... and yes I sometime sure shorthand language, but you understand my points.

Stop being an ass. I don’t willfully f*ck with your comments.