Conquer Club

Bernie Sanders has new advisor for economic issues, and it's a good one.
If implemented, this will make a huge difference for US(in positive way). Taxation on Wall Street transactions is kept at manageable level and the rise in productivity from having more educated people will probably be several times greater then the proposed taxation, and the companies will profit as well, not just the ordinary people.

So who ever is giving advice to Bernie lately is doing quite a good job

The Democratic presidential candidate announced today (June 24) his ambitious plan to cancel student debt completely, while paying off the debt owed by more than 40 million Americans.

The plan will reportedly have no eligibility criteria and will be available to both the nation’s federal student loan borrowers and private student loan borrowers.

Sanders says he will fund his student loan forgiveness plan through a new tax on Wall Street transactions, which he believes could raise more than $2 trillion over the next decade.

The senator’s plan will place a 0.5 per cent tax on stock trades, as well as a 0.1 per cent fee for bond trades and a 0.005 per cent fee on all derivatives trades.

The plan, which aims to help current and future students by easing their financial struggles, is not the first to address the nation’s increasing problem of student debt – although it is the most ambitious.

Bernie Sanders Wants To Wipe $1.6 Trillion Of Student Debt By Taxing Wall Street More

your welcome:


Re: Trump offers $50B investment to Palestinians

Post by NomadPatriot on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:38 am

NomadPatriot wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:Where is Trump going to steal the 50 Billion dollars from? Domestic programs that help senior citizens and the working poor?

geez I don't know Bernie.. maybe he could. um.. .. tax Wall Street $1.6 Trillion..

--> Bernie Sanders wants to erase $1.6 trillion in student debt by taxing Wall Street

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-student-debt-plan-wants-would-erase-college-loans-by-taxing-wall-street/

NomadPatriot wrote:your welcome:


Re: Trump offers $50B investment to Palestinians

Post by NomadPatriot on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:38 am

NomadPatriot wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:Where is Trump going to steal the 50 Billion dollars from? Domestic programs that help senior citizens and the working poor?

geez I don't know Bernie.. maybe he could. um.. .. tax Wall Street $1.6 Trillion..

--> Bernie Sanders wants to erase $1.6 trillion in student debt by taxing Wall Street

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-student-debt-plan-wants-would-erase-college-loans-by-taxing-wall-street/

Giving money to the Palestinians might not be such a great idea. After all they adore Hamas, and Hamas did everything it can to prevent peace settlement between Israel and Palestinian Authority.
On the other hand Bernie's proposal will make a difference.

GoranZ wrote:Giving money to the Palestinians might not be such a great idea. After all they adore Hamas, and Hamas did everything it can to prevent peace settlement between Israel and Palestinian Authority.On the other hand Bernie's proposal will make a difference.

why stop at student loan debt.. .
I mean if debt will just be written off by taxing people or companies more.. how about credit card debt or Housing.. .. I do not have any student loan debt.. how about I go out and buy a $100,000 house.. default on it. & Bernie can just tax some people to pay it off for me while I do nothing
it's not like the US government took over Student Loans in 2009. after the crash.. and now Bernie wants to tax people for loans given out..

government hands out loans for worthless degrees.. then taxes everyone who got a real job in order to cover those loans...

guess what will happen if those loans get forgiven.. those very same college losers will go back to college get another student loan for another useless degree & get that forgiven as well..

NomadPatriot wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Giving money to the Palestinians might not be such a great idea. After all they adore Hamas, and Hamas did everything it can to prevent peace settlement between Israel and Palestinian Authority.On the other hand Bernie's proposal will make a difference.

why stop at student loan debt.. .
I mean if debt will just be written off by taxing people or companies more.. how about credit card debt or Housing.. .. I do not have any student loan debt.. how about I go out and buy a $100,000 house.. default on it. & Bernie can just tax some people to pay it off for me while I do nothing
it's not like the US government took over Student Loans in 2009. after the crash.. and now Bernie wants to tax people for loans given out..

government hands out loans for worthless degrees.. then taxes everyone who got a real job in order to cover those loans...

guess what will happen if those loans get forgiven.. those very same college losers will go back to college get another student loan for another useless degree & get that forgiven as well..

I already answered on your concern...

GoranZ wrote:Taxation on Wall Street transactions is kept at manageable level and the rise in productivity from having more educated people will probably be several times greater then the proposed taxation, and the companies will profit as well, not just the ordinary people.

Why only student loans should be included... Because Education should be free.

There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Oh, there is the free education at the school of Hard Knocks, also known as Mistakes in Life University.

jusplay4fun wrote:There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Oh, there is the free education at the school of Hard Knocks, also known as Mistakes in Life University.

You get your talking points from Corporate America?

GoranZ wrote:Why only student loans should be included... Because Education should be free.

who pays the teachers or pay to run the daily operations of the school like providing meals, books, etc.

just post-secondary schools have a total of 1.7 million teachers..
average yearly pay is $54,000 per year
that's a minimum of $91.8 Billion per year just to pay the teachers..

in 2018 there were 19.9 million college kids
average Dormitory costs per student is around $10,500
that's a minimum of $208.9 Billion just for dormitory costs..

now factor in utility bills for the main non-Dormitory buildings ( water, gas, electricity, internet access). .paying security guards, and non-teacher faculty like cafeteria personal, janitorial, maintenance etc.
free college education would cost at minimum $500 billion. per year..

sanders plan states --> •A tax of 0.5% on all stock trades and smaller fees on bonds and derivatives could raise $2.4 trillion over a decade

his wall street tax plan would only generate $240 billion per year.. half of what would be needed just to provide bare minimum free college education.

but I am sure he would find other people to tax for the other half.....

jusplay4fun wrote:There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation

If you haven't see Free Education, it doesn't mean its does not exist.

Here how Europe looks like:


There is another think that you dont know about... Free Healthcare. Europe has it, even Canada has it, but not you. And I know its too much for your stomach so I wont brag a lot about it

NomadPatriot wrote:sanders plan states --> •A tax of 0.5% on all stock trades and smaller fees on bonds and derivatives could raise $2.4 trillion over a decade

his wall street tax plan would only generate $240 billion per year.. half of what would be needed just to provide bare minimum free college education.

How can we all verify your statement?

Goranz does not understand basic economics, with a statement like this:

by GoranZ on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:50 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation

If you haven't see Free Education, it doesn't mean its does not exist

.

Proof of my earlier post:

What's the meaning of the word 'There's no such thing as a free lunch'?

The economic theory, and also the lay opinion, that whatever goods and services are provided, they must be paid for by someone - that is, you don't get something for nothing. The phrase is also known by the acronym of 'there ain't no such thing as a free lunch' - tanstaafl.

So Goranz, from North Macedonia, confine your opinions to the realm of your knowledge. Does that extend beyond North Macedonia to Greece, or does it stop at the border? Run for the Border; yo quiero Taco Bell. LoL...

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html

jusplay4fun wrote:Goranz does not understand basic economics, with a statement like this:

by GoranZ on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:50 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation

If you haven't see Free Education, it doesn't mean its does not exist

.

Public Education in the USA is "Free" grades K-12, unless one attends a private school. It is a HUGE "business" and LOTS of money (i.e., TAXES) goes into paying teachers, administrators, even bus drivers and cafeteria workers for the "Free Lunches" that have to be paid by someone at sometime. Also, supplies and services are paid by public education and utilities (electricity, heat, internet, etc.) are paid by someone for such services. By Free, this means the students and their parents do not pay directly for such services offered. But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID (not counting volunteers, who are mostly parents of the students at the school).

So, bottom line, Free education is not "Free" because someone must pay this bills incurred in running schools. Maybe in your country, teachers teach for FREE, Goranz. Then, if no one gets paid, it is almost Free Education.

QED

jusplay4fun wrote:Goranz does not understand basic economics, with a statement like this:

by GoranZ on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:50 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation

If you haven't see Free Education, it doesn't mean its does not exist

.

Capitalism without regulations and humanity breeds greed, corruption and lack of compassion.

The education is free for those who use it to better themselves. We all pay for it in taxes for the betterment of society.

Your lack of empathy and concern for your fellow countrymen is unpatriotic. Go move down to Haiti and experience true unregulated Capitalism.

Bernie Sanders wrote:The education is free for those who use it to better themselves. We all pay for it in taxes for the betterment of society.

step 1) The education is free...
step 2) We all pay for it in taxes

jusplay4fun wrote:Public Education in the USA is "Free" grades K-12, unless one attends a private school. It is a HUGE "business" and LOTS of money (i.e., TAXES) goes into paying teachers, administrators, even bus drivers and cafeteria workers for the "Free Lunches" that have to be paid by someone at sometime. Also, supplies and services are paid by public education and utilities (electricity, heat, internet, etc.) are paid by someone for such services. By Free, this means the students and their parents do not pay directly for such services offered. But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID (not counting volunteers, who are mostly parents of the students at the school).

So, bottom line, Free education is not "Free" because someone must pay this bills incurred in running schools. Maybe in your country, teachers teach for FREE, Goranz. Then, if no one gets paid, it is almost Free Education.

QED

don't forget about the hard working maintenance types, jusplay....

NomadPatriot wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:The education is free for those who use it to better themselves. We all pay for it in taxes for the betterment of society.

step 1) The education is free...
step 2) We all pay for it in taxes

Hey you're catching on! Good boy!

Bernie Sanders wrote:

NomadPatriot wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:The education is free for those who use it to better themselves. We all pay for it in taxes for the betterment of society.

step 1) The education is free...
step 2) We all pay for it in taxes

Hey you're catching on! Good boy!

Bernie doesn't understand what free means...

jusplay4fun wrote:Proof of my earlier post:

What's the meaning of the word 'There's no such thing as a free lunch'?

The economic theory, and also the lay opinion, that whatever goods and services are provided, they must be paid for by someone - that is, you don't get something for nothing. The phrase is also known by the acronym of 'there ain't no such thing as a free lunch' - tanstaafl.

So Goranz, from North Macedonia, confine your opinions to the realm of your knowledge. Does that extend beyond North Macedonia to Greece, or does it stop at the border? Run for the Border; yo quiero Taco Bell. LoL...

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html

jusplay4fun wrote:Goranz does not understand basic economics, with a statement like this:

by GoranZ on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:50 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
There is no such thing as a Free Education or Free Lunch.

Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation

If you haven't see Free Education, it doesn't mean its does not exist

.

I dont think that you are qualified to determine if someone does or doesn't understand economics

You fail to read properly... Here it is again: "Why are you are mixing Lunch with Education? I was talking about Education, so leave the Lunch out of the conversation "


To a point your views are understandable... You are literally a slave and free education is totally unknown thing for you. A Bird Born in a Cage Will Think Flying Is an Illness

Let me put this simply, succinctly, and cogently: you do not understand education, economics, or the English Language.

There is no such thing as Free Lunch. The only things really Free are air and death.

There is a economic cost associated with nearly every thing in this world. Apparently you do not grasp this simple idea, Goranz.

Go to a real school that is NOT Free and you might actually learn something of value and truth. Apparently they teach neither in North Macedonia.

I think I covered maintenance workers, RL, by stating:

But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID

Here is a partial list of those working at schools, besides teachers: Administrators (aka principals), teacher aides, custodians (janitors), maintenance workers, those in IT, teachers who support other teachers, Counselors (more than one type, also and sometimes called Guidance staff), secretaries (or Administrative aides), cafeteria workers (cooks and servers). Some school even have paid cafeteria supervisors so that teachers have duty free lunches. I likely forgot some group, but I hope my descriptors are generally enough to include all or nearly all.

The BOTTOM line is that ALL these individuals are PAID money by the local school division. So these expenses and the other supplies and utilities and services ALL must be PAID. So while education may be FREE to the student, someone else PAYS for the schools and the services there. As far as I know, those are paid ultimately by taxes, tuition fees, or by one or more rich benefactor(s). College is a combination of all those PLUS federally guaranteed loans.

Just because a country provides "Free" education (college and/or K-12) does NOT mean it COSTS NOTHING to run the school. All those workers do not work for free. Hence, there is no such thing as truly Free education and no such thing as a free lunch. QED

last point here: if Goranz STILL does not get it, he can read the information at this link:
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html
The meaning and origin of the expression: There's no such thing as a free lunch

JP

riskllama wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:Public Education in the USA is "Free" grades K-12, unless one attends a private school. It is a HUGE "business" and LOTS of money (i.e., TAXES) goes into paying teachers, administrators, even bus drivers and cafeteria workers for the "Free Lunches" that have to be paid by someone at sometime. Also, supplies and services are paid by public education and utilities (electricity, heat, internet, etc.) are paid by someone for such services. By Free, this means the students and their parents do not pay directly for such services offered. But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID (not counting volunteers, who are mostly parents of the students at the school).

So, bottom line, Free education is not "Free" because someone must pay this bills incurred in running schools. Maybe in your country, teachers teach for FREE, Goranz. Then, if no one gets paid, it is almost Free Education.

QED

don't forget about the hard working maintenance types, jusplay....

jusplay4fun wrote:I think I covered maintenance workers, RL, by stating:

But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID

Here is a partial list of those working at schools, besides teachers: Administrators (aka principals), teacher aides, custodians (janitors), maintenance workers, those in IT, teachers who support other teachers, Counselors (more than one type, also and sometimes called Guidance staff), secretaries (or Administrative aides), cafeteria workers (cooks and servers). Some school even have paid cafeteria supervisors so that teachers have duty free lunches. I likely forgot some group, but I hope my descriptors are generally enough to include all or nearly all.

The BOTTOM line is that ALL these individuals are PAID money by the local school division. So these expenses and the other supplies and utilities and services ALL must be PAID. So while education may be FREE to the student, someone else PAYS for the schools and the services there. As far as I know, those are paid ultimately by taxes, tuition fees, or by one or more rich benefactor(s). College is a combination of all those PLUS federally guaranteed loans.

Just because a country provides "Free" education (college and/or K-12) does NOT mean it COSTS NOTHING to run the school. All those workers do not work for free. Hence, there is no such thing as truly Free education and no such thing as a free lunch. QED

last point here: if Goranz STILL does not get it, he can read the information at this link:
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html
The meaning and origin of the expression: There's no such thing as a free lunch

JP

riskllama wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:Public Education in the USA is "Free" grades K-12, unless one attends a private school. It is a HUGE "business" and LOTS of money (i.e., TAXES) goes into paying teachers, administrators, even bus drivers and cafeteria workers for the "Free Lunches" that have to be paid by someone at sometime. Also, supplies and services are paid by public education and utilities (electricity, heat, internet, etc.) are paid by someone for such services. By Free, this means the students and their parents do not pay directly for such services offered. But teachers and all those persons working at and in schools are PAID (not counting volunteers, who are mostly parents of the students at the school).

So, bottom line, Free education is not "Free" because someone must pay this bills incurred in running schools. Maybe in your country, teachers teach for FREE, Goranz. Then, if no one gets paid, it is almost Free Education.

QED

don't forget about the hard working maintenance types, jusplay....

I already pointed all of this out..
--> by NomadPatriot » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:41 am

NomadPatriot wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Why only student loans should be included... Because Education should be free.

who pays the teachers or pay to run the daily operations of the school like providing meals, books, etc.

just post-secondary schools have a total of 1.7 million teachers..
average yearly pay is $54,000 per year
that's a minimum of $91.8 Billion per year just to pay the teachers..

in 2018 there were 19.9 million college kids
average Dormitory costs per student is around $10,500
that's a minimum of $208.9 Billion just for dormitory costs..

now factor in utility bills for the main non-Dormitory buildings ( water, gas, electricity, internet access). .paying security guards, and non-teacher faculty like cafeteria personal, janitorial, maintenance etc.
free college education would cost at minimum $500 billion. per year..

sanders plan states --> •A tax of 0.5% on all stock trades and smaller fees on bonds and derivatives could raise $2.4 trillion over a decade

his wall street tax plan would only generate $240 billion per year.. half of what would be needed just to provide bare minimum free college education.

but I am sure he would find other people to tax for the other half.....

jusplay4fun wrote:Let me put this simply, succinctly, and cogently: you do not understand education, economics, or the English Language.

There is no such thing as Free Lunch. The only things really Free are air and death.

There is a economic cost associated with nearly every thing in this world. Apparently you do not grasp this simple idea, Goranz.

Go to a real school that is NOT Free and you might actually learn something of value and truth. Apparently they teach neither in North Macedonia.

First of all, there's no need for these gratuitous insults. Ad hominem arguments are degrading to both the target and his assailant. I have defended you in the past when you've been attacked but lately you see to be doing more attacking than being attacked, so I give up. (And no, before you ask, no this is not an official warning as a mod. It's just me expressing my opinion as an individual.)

Now, if Goran's opinion is too unsophisticated for you, perhaps you will consider mine. Here's my credentials:

1. I took economics as a context elective in university. I scored 95% in Microeconomics and 92% in Macroeconomics. My marks in my elective courses were actually far, far higher than my marks in the science courses I was supposed to be majoring in.
2. I spent seven years in the trenches as a Libertarian activist. So trust me that I know every free-market argument inside-and-out, back-to-front, left-to-right. I parted company with the Libertarian movement and moved to the left not on some capricious whim, but because I found the flaws with those arguments.
3. Yes, I know what tanstaafl means. I actually own every Heinlein book ever written. Two or three copies of some of them.

You're wrong. Air and death are not free. Have you seen the price of a coffin lately?

When people talk about free education and free health care, they are not under some ridiculous illusion that these things come at no cost. They are called free because they are provided without charge to the client. Is there a cost to society at large? Yes, through taxes there is a cost. It's done because the cost that a society pays if it does not provide these services is far greater. Your country is full of brilliant people who will never develop their potential because they cannot afford university, and it is full of mediocrities who will never accomplish anything but sit on the board of a major corporation because their parents were able to buy them an Ivy League entry ticket. That waste of brilliant minds and that promotion of mediocre minds is a cost far greater than what you would suffer if you distributed free education to everyone who wants it and spread the cost evenly.

Now, I have a question for you. I've asked other right wingers before, and never gotten an answer, so maybe you will have the courage to answer honestly. In your country, primary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Secondary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Why then, do you think that free tertiary education is such a radical and threatening concept? What is so supernaturally different about tertiary education that you think it must be expensive while primary and secondary education are free?

Dukasaur wrote:Now, I have a question for you. I've asked other right wingers before, and never gotten an answer, so maybe you will have the courage to answer honestly. In your country, primary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Secondary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Why then, do you think that free tertiary education is such a radical and threatening concept? What is so supernaturally different about tertiary education that you think it must be expensive while primary and secondary education are free?

i'll answer Duk.. from my 'Right Wing' perspective..

all education up through being a senior in high school is not free.. it is paid for by people who own their homes.. property taxes go directly to education typically. so anyone who owns their homes pays for the education of the masses..
once a child turns 18 they become an adult. .the parent is no longer responsible for taking care of them or providing for them.. so it is then the newly inducted 'Adult" to make their way in the world based upon the choices they choose in life.
if that new adult chooses to go to college and get an education. they typically can go somewhere and are typically granted a loan to pay for that education in order to get a job afterwards and be a productive tax paying adult. and pay off their loan. becoming responsible like their parents.
the problem is most of these new adults get loans to go to college to get a degree in something that is not a job after college or will never be something that will feasibly become available as a job. ( example: say 1 million new adults get a degree in teaching. when only 100,000 teachers are needed) so that degree becomes basically useless & the loan attached to it goes unpaid.
other people not involved in that situation should not be mandated to pay for that mistake on the part of the New Adult.

here's a scenario:
let's say I get a credit card & I charged $100,000 on it buying a couple new cars to start a delivery business.--> (student loan)
then parked them next to a lake without insurance --> (goes to college without a game plan)
it rains severely & the lake rises a few feet, the cars get flooded & totaled --> (graduates with worthless degree)
my delivery business never gets off the ground and I owe $100,000 --> (never gets a job, owes for student loans)
should other people be mandated to pay for my mistake ..? --> ( gets free education goes back to college to do it all over again.. )

free college education would be a revolving door .. an endless merry-go-round.
what would stop someone from just being a 50 year student?
they could just keep enrolling in new classes every year. getting free room & board & money to spend and all they would have to do is be present at the location a few hours a day.. & they get the equivalent of $25,000 a year or whatever the sum would be..
they would never have to graduate.. they would never feel responsible to go out into the world and try to succeed.

what would stop them from doing that.. ?

NomadPatriot wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Now, I have a question for you. I've asked other right wingers before, and never gotten an answer, so maybe you will have the courage to answer honestly. In your country, primary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Secondary education is seen as a basic right, free to everyone. Why then, do you think that free tertiary education is such a radical and threatening concept? What is so supernaturally different about tertiary education that you think it must be expensive while primary and secondary education are free?

i'll answer Duk.. from my 'Right Wing' perspective..

all education up through being a senior in high school is not free.. it is paid for by people who own their homes.. property taxes go directly to education typically. so anyone who owns their homes pays for the education of the masses..
once a child turns 18 they become an adult. .the parent is no longer responsible for taking care of them or providing for them.. so it is then the newly inducted 'Adult" to make their way in the world based upon the choices they choose in life.
if that new adult chooses to go to college and get an education. they typically can go somewhere and are typically granted a loan to pay for that education in order to get a job afterwards and be a productive tax paying adult. and pay off their loan. becoming responsible like their parents.
the problem is most of these new adults get loans to go to college to get a degree in something that is not a job after college or will never be something that will feasibly become available as a job. ( example: say 1 million new adults get a degree in teaching. when only 100,000 teachers are needed) so that degree becomes basically useless & the loan attached to it goes unpaid.
other people not involved in that situation should not be mandated to pay for that mistake on the part of the New Adult.

here's a scenario:
let's say I get a credit card & I charged $100,000 on it buying a couple new cars to start a delivery business.--> (student loan)
then parked them next to a lake without insurance --> (goes to college without a game plan)
it rains severely & the lake rises a few feet, the cars get flooded & totaled --> (graduates with worthless degree)
my delivery business never gets off the ground and I owe $100,000 --> (never gets a job, owes for student loans)
should other people be mandated to pay for my mistake ..? --> ( gets free education goes back to college to do it all over again.. )

free college education would be a revolving door .. an endless merry-go-round.
what would stop someone from just being a 50 year student?
they could just keep enrolling in new classes every year. getting free room & board & money to spend and all they would have to do is be present at the location a few hours a day.. & they get the equivalent of $25,000 a year or whatever the sum would be..
they would never have to graduate.. they would never feel responsible to go out into the world and try to succeed.

what would stop them from doing that.. ?

If you dont have insurance to cover your car, house or business....oh well you ain't one to give advice.